Wagging the tail

[fickman]

On our recent trip, I stayed at 65 mph or less and drove very defensively. However, about a handful of times, I had to make a quick steer to one side or the other (something in the road or somebody who doesn't understand how to "merge").

When I do this, I noticed the popup skipping around for a bit afterward. Depending on the severity of the steer, it might take it 3-10 seconds to stop skipping from side to side, get back on track, and settle down. I had new tires, but figured this couldn't be good for them. I really watched and tried to avoid this phenomenon, but sometimes it was unavoidable.

My questions are:
- Do you experience this?
- Does it concern you?
- Is this more because I have a single axle trailer?
- Is this more because I have such a heavy TV compared to the weight of the trailer?

Anyway, we see lots of threads on this forum about sway. . . when the tail wags the dog. I thought I'd start a conversation about when the dog wags the tail a little too enthusiastically.

[fickman]

fickman wrote:
This is exactly what it is happening. As I said, in 1,800 miles, it only happened a handful of times after a quick steering maneuver e.g. to avoid tire debris in the road, for no more than 5 seconds each time. I also didn't mean to portray the hopping as extreme. . . it's inches, not feet. It was not felt in the van, but I saw it. Otherwise, the camper tracks very well behind the van. The camper did not move due to extreme West Texas winds or when being passed by big rigs, either.

I thought of one other clarification: it is NOT leaning side-to-side in these few situations. It stays level and both tires hit at the same time. It is not bouncing at an angle where only one tire touches at a time. If I gave that impression, I apologize.

I usually talk with my hands. . . if I could do that here, I could've saved a lot of typing. 🙂

[fickman]

p220sigman wrote:
It is hard to tell from your picture, but it also looks like your tongue is high so the Pup angles up to the TV. You may also need to look at a drawbar with a drop to it so that the Pup is level or slightly lower at the tongue.

Good eye! The current signature pic is with the hitch my FIL gave me - it's when I picked the camper up to bring to my house (about 10 miles).

I've since bought a drop hitch that has the nose just below level. It looks perfect now.

RinconVTR wrote:
#1 ***Get the camper weighed on a scale!
#2. THEN verify #270lbs on the tongue is 10% or more of that scale weight.

- You may very well need a little more weight on the tongue, but dont go crazy.
- Trailer nose angle can greatly help reduce sway and trailer control on single axle trailer. (should be level or slightly nose down)
- What PSI are you running in your trailer tires? If not max cold, try it.
- Is this an older camper? Have you had a shop look at tire/axle alignment?

I do intend to weigh the camper the next time I get it out. There's a Pilot just down the road with scales. This is the biggest piece of missing information.

I run the tires at 65 PSI cold, which is max. They were brand new before our trip. I also checked them before each major leg of driving.

The camper is a 2008 and has only been on one major trip (in-laws took it to Niagara Falls).

popupcamping wrote:
All you are seeing is the trailer naturally trying to get back on track, No biggie.

This is exactly what it is happening. As I said, in 1,800 miles, it only happened a handful of times after a quick steering maneuver e.g. to avoid tire debris in the road, for no more than 5 seconds each time. I also didn't mean to portray the hopping as extreme. . . it's inches, not feet. It was not felt in the van, but I saw it. Otherwise, the camper tracks very well behind the van. The camper did not move due to extreme West Texas winds or when being passed by big rigs, either.

The feedback has been thought provoking. I'm not new to RVing by any means. . . this is our 3rd trailer as a family (we also both grew up towing) and the first time I remember seeing this with any of our rigs.

Old rigs:
2000 Coleman popup towed by 2003 Chevy Silverado 1500 ext cab short bed 5.3 liter

2005 Fleetwood 180CK towed by same truck above and then 2005 Chevy Silverado 2500HD 4x4 6.0 liter 4 speed Crew Cab Short Bed

My default is always safety: I pour over ratings, setup, configuration, etc. As you can see from the previous rigs, I've always had significantly more TV than any of my campers required.

I'm still open to hear any other anecdotes from other popup owners who have seen this. I'll post again if we end up talking to the experts, adding the sway, or when I get the exact weight.

Thanks again!

[RinconVTR]

Weird duplicate - DELETED

[RinconVTR]

Wow...would you listen to all the replies to just add a band aid before finding the root cause of the problem! You dont just add sway control not knowing why your set up is swaying so bad! These devices are not to fix a poor set up, or mask another issue, especially on this size (and weight) trailer. What aweful advice.

#1 ***Get the camper weighed on a scale!
#2. THEN verify #270lbs on the tongue is 10% or more of that scale weight.

- You may very well need a little more weight on the tongue, but dont go crazy.
- Trailer nose angle can greatly help reduce sway and trailer control on single axle trailer. (should be level or slightly nose down)
- What PSI are you running in your trailer tires? If not max cold, try it.
- Is this an older camper? Have you had a shop look at tire/axle alignment?

[p220sigman]

It is hard to tell from your picture, but it also looks like your tongue is high so the Pup angles up to the TV. You may also need to look at a drawbar with a drop to it so that the Pup is level or slightly lower at the tongue.

Sway control is cheap insurance as well. I run sway control even though I'm towing with a truck that weighs pretty close to twice what the Pup weighs.

[Road_Ruler]

Road Ruler wrote:
You are driving a dangerous combination and the sway issue needs to be fixed ASAP.

Suggest getting your rig to a towing specialist for analysis and resolution. Also 65MPH is too fast when towing a trailer.

fickman wrote:

Thanks for taking time to respond. I think that seems a little alarmist, but your concern is noted.

I'm at about 1/3 of my max tow rating and less than that of my payload. My van could stop this camper on a dime without the trailer brakes - and yet, the trailer does have brakes and I use a Prodigy controller. I don't think there's anything inherently dangerous about my setup as a whole.



Ya'll have convinced me to continue to investigate this phenomenon and look for a solution. That's the whole reason I started this thread.

I appreciate all of the feedback thus far! Thanks!

Here is where I am coming from....

Our Coleman was similar to yours and we were at 2/3 of the mini vans tow rating. We used no sway control. The rig was all over North America. Not once did we ever experience a sway of any kind. Not even a wiggle. Your tow vehicle is big and heavy which only makes folks over confident when towing.

Note... Those ST tires on your Coleman are rated for a Max of 65MPH and that is probably being generous considering the poor quality of ST tires. Do you really want to risk a trailer tire blow out going 65MPH with such an unstable combination?

I'm on your side..... hoping you solve the sway problem.

[popupcamping]

I think the OP wishes he never made the post....No way do you need a sway control with your set up.

Never is your trailer going to get out of control behind that beast of a TV.

You could tow a 24' TT without sway almost.

All you are seeing is the trailer naturally trying to get back on track, No biggie.

[bradnailer]

You will probably need to take your tow vehicle and trailer to a trailer shop. They can weld on a ball for a friction sway control on your ball receiver and mount a ball to you trailer's hitch. That would be my suggestion. May cost you a hundred dollars or so but it is well worth the investment.

[2112]

A friction sway bar cost about $50. It's an easy install if your hitch is designed to readily receive one. Try it.

[fickman]

SDcampowneroperator wrote:

GWolfe wrote:
If your pup weighs 2700 lbs you should have a tongue weight of at least 270 lbs, you shouldn't be able to pick it up easily. My 8' pup had a tongue weight of around 200lbs before I added the extension, I have never had a problem with sway.

You need to get more weight up front a WDH is not going to help with a light tongue weight.

Good advice. Tongue weight should be at least 10% of total trailer weight on a ball towable to minimize tail wag.
You said you can pick up the tongue easily. Unless you are an incredibly strong man, I suspect you do not have enough weight forward. Use your bathroom scale under the tongue jack to determine the %.

Thanks for the advice.

I just now went to the garage, picked it up, had my wife slide the scale underneath the tongue, and set it back down.

The tongue weight is 270 lbs. on the spot.

(And that's without the ice chest, food, and bedding inside (all of which goes in front of the axle). Our clothes go in the cargo area of the van.)

[SDcampowneroper]

GWolfe wrote:
If your pup weighs 2700 lbs you should have a tongue weight of at least 270 lbs, you shouldn't be able to pick it up easily. My 8' pup had a tongue weight of around 200lbs before I added the extension, I have never had a problem with sway.

You need to get more weight up front a WDH is not going to help with a light tongue weight.

Good advice. Tongue weight should be at least 10% of total trailer weight on a ball towable to minimize tail wag.
You said you can pick up the tongue easily. Unless you are an incredibly strong man, I suspect you do not have enough weight forward. Use your bathroom scale under the tongue jack to determine the %.

[fickman]

GWolfe wrote:
If your pup weighs 2700 lbs you should have a tongue weight of at least 270 lbs, you shouldn't be able to pick it up easily. My 8' pup had a tongue weight of around 200lbs before I added the extension, I have never had a problem with sway.

You need to get more weight up front a WDH is not going to help with a light tongue weight.

I didn't mean to imply that I can pick it up easily. From the feel (comparing to deadlifts at the gym), it's definitely over 225 lbs. . . probably over 245 lbs.

[GWolfe]

If your pup weighs 2700 lbs you should have a tongue weight of at least 270 lbs, you shouldn't be able to pick it up easily. My 8' pup had a tongue weight of around 200lbs before I added the extension, I have never had a problem with sway.

You need to get more weight up front a WDH is not going to help with a light tongue weight.

[fickman]

rrupert wrote:
I worked for a Coleman dealer and he advised customers that had models with the front storage trunk like yours to keep the trunk weighted with your heaviest items. They tend to be tail heavy and must have added forward weight. Also, make sure your tires are kept at the maximum recommended pressure.

This is exactly how we're loaded. Nothing heavy goes behind the axle. The kitchen, galley, tools (I have a 4-drawer toolbox), lantern, carpet, stakes, inflater, ice chest, etc. all are in front of the axle. We have one slide that is exactly balanced halfway on the axle. The weight is definitely forward, but it's still not much weight overall. The camper GVWR is 3,500 lbs. and I doubt I'm over 2,700 lbs. Haven't had a chance to visit the scales yet.

I do keep the tires - check them at a filing station at the beginning of each leg of a trip.

Road Ruler wrote:
You are driving a dangerous combination and the sway issue needs to be fixed ASAP.

Suggest getting your rig to a towing specialist for analysis and resolution. Also 65MPH is too fast when towing a trailer.

Thanks for taking time to respond. I think that seems a little alarmist, but your concern is noted.

I've seen the speed debates on this forum. I would not tow over 65 mph, but nothing in my rig prevents me from safely going up to it, especially on long, straight Interstates or highways like we have in Texas (where I'm still 20+mph under the limit). I-10 is a long, straight roadway and I bet the majority of RVers would be comfortable going 65 mph on a bright, sunny, mild-termperature day when there's no construction and no traffic.

I will look into the possibility of adding a sway bar if ya'll think that is the solution. Like I said, this happened fewer than five times on an 1,800 mile trip. I'm at about 1/3 of my max tow rating and less than that of my payload. My van could stop this camper on a dime without the trailer brakes - and yet, the trailer does have brakes and I use a Prodigy controller. I don't think there's anything inherently dangerous about my setup as a whole.

Ya'll have convinced me to continue to investigate this phenomenon and look for a solution. That's the whole reason I started this thread.

Also know that the picture in my signature is not quite accurate. That was with a 1 1/2" drop. I'm now using a 3 1/4" drop that has my nose just below level. In the picture, I was a little nose-high. That pic is with the hitch my FIL gave me. I bought a new one before our trip.

I appreciate all of the feedback thus far! Thanks!