Weight distribution hitch questions

[crossent]

Just purchased a carson 14' toy hauler for hauling the bikes plus extra space for the kids. Trailer weighs 3200lb with 450lb tongue weight dry. I have the Reese titan on both trucks and run the reese 48" extension. One shop tells me not possible to tow with my current setup because I would need to add the tongue weight of trailer plus the added weight of the camper past the rear wheels and that would be what size distribution bars needed and since the Reese extension is rated for 600lb tongue and 6000lb pull I cannot go over 600lb distribution bars and therefore would be useless and have no effect. Any help would be appreciated.

[ticki2]

jimh425 wrote:

mkirsch wrote:
The dead weight of the tongue pries down on the shank/extension. The WD bars pry up.

I think we just have a terminology problem. My point is the weight doesn't disappear or is attached differently just because you hookup a WDH. The WDW is designed to push up not down on the hitch, but to do that the force still goes through the hitch. There are no other attachment points to the truck. If you are worried about hitch strength, a WDH isn't going to fix it. The lever arm is still 4 feet.

Then why are the hitch and the extension both rated for more weight WITH a WDH ?

No , the weight doesn't disappear , It is distributed differently through the attachment point . The upward force is subtracted from the downward force to lessen the downward reaction at that point . Then it is transferred through the frames to the front axle of the tow vehicle and the trailer axles .

[Kayteg1]

mkirsch wrote:
Kayteg1,

We're not just talking about hitching a trailer to the receiver on a truck here. There's a 4' extension between the truck and the trailer, and even a light trailer is going to put a lot of force on the truck's receiver with all that leverage. The WD hitch will negate some or all of that, and is really a "necessary evil" in this situation.

Alternatively I guess he could go and get an F550 with a 12' flat bed and the back axle installed right at the extreme rear of the frame. That'd be ideal, mostly. Might have to watch that he doesn't overload the front axle because the camper will be 50/50 on the front and rear axles. Plus the darn thing will take two football fields to turn around. Forget using it as a daily driver or going anywhere "normal" like you would with a typical pickup truck.

The extension sure amplifies the problem 😉
That is common issue on 30'+ motorhomes that are build on 25' chassis. They can have 12' rear overhang and can't take any tongue weight, unless converter adds tag axle.
WD bars put torque on the whole frame and extension amplifies that problem as well.
That is why with each foot of extension, the towing capacity drops like a rock.
Observe how tow trucks are build. Their rear tires almost are touching the bumper and they tow without WD having tons on the hook.

[Reality_Check]

Kayteg1 wrote:
......
The 3-axle trailer had pintle hitch, so WD was not possible even if I wanted it.
......

Actually, it is possible, works fine. Just not very common for sure.

[jimh406]

mkirsch wrote:
The dead weight of the tongue pries down on the shank/extension. The WD bars pry up.

I think we just have a terminology problem. My point is the weight doesn't disappear or is attached differently just because you hookup a WDH. The WDW is designed to push up not down on the hitch, but to do that the force still goes through the hitch. There are no other attachment points to the truck. If you are worried about hitch strength, a WDH isn't going to fix it. The lever arm is still 4 feet.

[mkirsch]

jimh425 wrote:

mkirsch wrote:
There's a 4' extension between the truck and the trailer, and even a light trailer is going to put a lot of force on the truck's receiver with all that leverage. The WD hitch will negate some or all of that, and is really a "necessary evil" in this situation.

I don't think it's normal to add a WDH to tow behind a 4' extension to tow light weights. I'm not saying you can't, but I don't think it is at all normal. In any case, WDH won't impact the leverage added to the truck at the hitch since it is ball mount back.

I never said it was.

OP wants to tow a small TOY HAULER on his Reese 4' extension. Dry tongue 450lbs.

Reese's ratings are maximum 600/6000lbs on the 4' extension, WITH WD. Anything above 400lbs needs a WD per Reese's ratings.

Time he gets the TH loaded up he's going to be every bit of 600lbs on the tongue.

And yes, it will affect the leverage in the vertical direction. That's how WD works. The dead weight of the tongue pries down on the shank/extension. The WD bars pry up.

[jimh406]

mkirsch wrote:
There's a 4' extension between the truck and the trailer, and even a light trailer is going to put a lot of force on the truck's receiver with all that leverage. The WD hitch will negate some or all of that, and is really a "necessary evil" in this situation.

I don't think it's normal to add a WDH to tow behind a 4' extension to tow light weights. I'm not saying you can't, but I don't think it is at all normal. In any case, WDH won't impact the leverage added to the truck at the hitch since it is ball mount back.

[mkirsch]

Kayteg1,

We're not just talking about hitching a trailer to the receiver on a truck here. There's a 4' extension between the truck and the trailer, and even a light trailer is going to put a lot of force on the truck's receiver with all that leverage. The WD hitch will negate some or all of that, and is really a "necessary evil" in this situation.

Alternatively I guess he could go and get an F550 with a 12' flat bed and the back axle installed right at the extreme rear of the frame. That'd be ideal, mostly. Might have to watch that he doesn't overload the front axle because the camper will be 50/50 on the front and rear axles. Plus the darn thing will take two football fields to turn around. Forget using it as a daily driver or going anywhere "normal" like you would with a typical pickup truck.

[Kayteg1]

Another sample from my album.
This is close to 6000lb boat trailer.
But ML has very short overhang and tows without WD just fine.

[Kayteg1]

mkirsch wrote:
WD hitches have distinct advantages when you're traveling hundreds of miles at highway speeds.

That is 1 way of putting it.
Per my experience WD are patch for poorly design setup.
Most of pickups are design as grocery getter and even they have strong suspension, long rear overhang makes it mostly useless for heavy hitch towing.
As I show on picture above, even my F450 had relatively long overhang, the hitch was very short, so the pivoting point was about 5 feet behind the axle.
I estimated few times to have 4000 lb tongue weight without WD just fine.
And I drove 60 mph for hundreds of miles.

[Kayteg1]

ticki2 wrote:

Kayteg1 wrote:

I did tow quite a bit in my life, including few thousands miles with 18,000lb equipment hauler and NEVER used WD bars.

Would you mind telling us what vehicle and trailer hitch you were conventional towing 18000 # without a WD hitch .

I used to own 3 Superduties and tow the trailer with each one of them.
The 3-axle trailer had pintle hitch, so WD was not possible even if I wanted it.
1999 F450
2000 F250
2007 F350

[ticki2]

mkirsch wrote:


Not everyone is trying to tow a 9000lb trailer with a half ton truck or midsize SUV.

My Reese Titan receiver is rated to 18,000lbs conventional towing without a WD hitch.

Construction equipment on flatbed trailers are almost always towed without WD behind pickup trucks.

That's not to say just because they can/do means everyone else should too. If you're going across town to a job site at 35MPH, that's one thing. WD hitches have distinct advantages when you're traveling hundreds of miles at highway speeds.

What is the model of your Reese titan ?

What could be done and what should be done are two different things .

The point is a WD hitch adds to the capacity of almost every hitch I know of .

[mkirsch]

crossent wrote:
My dually has upper stable loads and rancho 9000's. I think I will take the timbrens off my 95 and slide them under the dually. The dually handles my single axle boat just fine. The toy hauler is a tandem axle . Just thought WD to bump up my hitch capacity. Not trying to raise the back of the truck.

As long as you don't exceed the ratings of the extension, you will be just fine. If it says 600/6000 with WD, and the trailer is going to be at or under 600/6000, then put a 600lb WD hitch on it, adjust it normally, and hit the road.

Keep in mind that a 48" extension is amplifying all forces from the trailer hitch like a cheater pipe on a wrench. That's why the ratings for the extension are so low.

Everything is amplified in fact. If there's any slop in the extension at the receiver, the trailer will be clunking and clanking around behind you, annoying you to no end and wallowing out your receiver. If you don't already have them you may want to consider some stabilizer chains similar to what you see on the Torklift Supertruss and many custom installations.

[mkirsch]

ticki2 wrote:

Kayteg1 wrote:

I did tow quite a bit in my life, including few thousands miles with 18,000lb equipment hauler and NEVER used WD bars.

Would you mind telling us what vehicle and trailer hitch you were conventional towing 18000 # without a WD hitch .

Not everyone is trying to tow a 9000lb trailer with a half ton truck or midsize SUV.

My Reese Titan receiver is rated to 18,000lbs conventional towing without a WD hitch.

Construction equipment on flatbed trailers are almost always towed without WD behind pickup trucks.

That's not to say just because they can/do means everyone else should too. If you're going across town to a job site at 35MPH, that's one thing. WD hitches have distinct advantages when you're traveling hundreds of miles at highway speeds.

[ticki2]

Kayteg1 wrote:

I did tow quite a bit in my life, including few thousands miles with 18,000lb equipment hauler and NEVER used WD bars.

Would you mind telling us what vehicle and trailer hitch you were conventional towing 18000 # without a WD hitch .

[crossent]

My dually has upper stable loads and rancho 9000's. I think I will take the timbrens off my 95 and slide them under the dually. The dually handles my single axle boat just fine. The toy hauler is a tandem axle . Just thought WD to bump up my hitch capacity. Not trying to raise the back of the truck.