What was Airstream thinking (part 2)?

[Bobbo]

This is my second thread on this topic. The first thread can be found here: What was Airstream thinking?

Now for the second installment:

I have a 2017 Flying Cloud 23FB. I can't believe Airstream put NOT ONE 12v outlet in this trailer.

I have a CPAP machine. We boondock a lot and running the CPAP off of an inverter wastes power. As far as I can figure, for every 3 amps the CPAP uses, there are 4 amps pulled out of my batteries. This is due to inefficiencies of the inverter changing 12v to 120v and the CPAP power cord changing the 120v BACK to 12v for the machine. My solution (with my previous RV) was to buy a 12v power cord for the CPAP machine.

There is NOWHERE to plug it in my new Airstream.

I fixed that. I bought a 12v outlet (and a 5v USB outlet also) and inset it into the plywood below the mattress on my side of the bed. I planned to pull power from the 12v light in the outside storage bin, but when I moved the mattress, I saw a pair of (black and white) wires on the far side of the bed not connected to anything at all. I got my volt/ohm meter, and they were 12v. I ran a pair of 12g (black and white) wires from those available wires under the plywood supporting the mattress (through the inverter bay and the outside storage bay) and connected them to my new outlets. I now have 12v power on my side of the bed for the CPAP, and a USB charger for my phone right beside the bed. (After doing this install, I just MAY remove the 12v outlets I installed and reported on in my first thread.)

[Bobbo]

Passin Thru wrote:
Buy a Pyramid Power Supply.

I could, but this is cheaper, easier, less noticable, and enough for my needs.

[Passin_Thru]

Buy a Pyramid Power Supply.

[ktmrfs]

The OP's observation isn't unique to Airstream, but very common with most trailers regardless of brand.

The lack of a 12V bedroom adapter does suprise me that given that:
1) virtually ALL current CPAP's will run off 12V, on exception is mine that needs 24V but again, that's easy peasy with a 12V-24V DC-DC converter
2) a reasonable % of adults need a CPAP
3) running a CPAP off an inverter uses noticeably more power than 12V due to inverter losses and CPAP PS losses given they run of 12/24V even when plugged into 120V

that trailer mfg even if they do have a 12V outlet, seldom have one in the bedroom and often not even an easy place to put a CPAP.

But more and more trailers are adding a boatload of USB plugs all over the trailer.

So if you have a USB port, pull it out and put in a dual USB/12V port.

[rbpru]

If I were to complain about my TT it would be because it only has two 120 volt outlet in the living area. One by the stove and one by the dinnette.

But again, it only had two when I bought it.

[Bobbo]

goducks10 wrote:
Where do you draw the line as a MFG on what to assume buyers want?
Add some solar or a couple more batteries and all should be well.

All is well. I have added 4 of the 12v outlets. (Three of them in Part 1, one of them in Part 2.) Life is good. I just wanted to rant about the NEED to add 4 of the 12v outlets. You are free to feel it is unreasonable of me to wish the trailer had come with some 12v outlets installed. Your disapproval won't cost me a minute of sleep. Judging from the majority of the replies to this thread, I am not the only one who finds 12v outlets useful.

I don't understand why you suggest to "Add some solar or a couple more batteries." I have plenty of power, it just needs to be coming from 12v outlets so I don't waste energy double converting from 12v back to 12v.

As far as "draw the line as a MFG on what to assume buyers want," I don't draw any line. Buyers can want whatever they want, and manufacturers can assume whatever they want, and buyers can gripe about what MFG's assume all they want.

[goducks10]

Bobbo wrote:

goducks10 wrote:
Buyers remorse?

OP here.

Not at all. We love the trailer. I just think that on a trailer this expensive, it should not be necessary to have to add 12v outlets. Even if I had realized there were no 12v outlets, I still would have bought this trailer, and would still be miffed that on a trailer this expensive there were no 12v outlets.

There are times when 20 watts of power (a typical 2 amp 5v USB port) is not nearly enough power, and you don't have 120v power available. (We boondock a lot.) The inverter is extremely inefficient for taking 12v power, converting it to 120v power, only to convert it BACK to 12v power to use. My personal estimate is that you waste 25% of the power it pulls from the battery. When you are boondocking, every amp of battery power counts.

I covered all this in the very first post, but not everyone who snarks bothers to actually read the thread.

Where do you draw the line as a MFG on what to assume buyers want?
Add some solar or a couple more batteries and all should be well.

[Bobbo]

goducks10 wrote:
Buyers remorse?

OP here.

Not at all. We love the trailer. I just think that on a trailer this expensive, it should not be necessary to have to add 12v outlets. Even if I had realized there were no 12v outlets, I still would have bought this trailer, and would still be miffed that on a trailer this expensive there were no 12v outlets.

There are times when 20 watts of power (a typical 2 amp 5v USB port) is not nearly enough power, and you don't have 120v power available. (We boondock a lot.) The inverter is extremely inefficient for taking 12v power, converting it to 120v power, only to convert it BACK to 12v power to use. My personal estimate is that you waste 25% of the power it pulls from the battery. When you are boondocking, every amp of battery power counts.

I covered all this in the very first post, but not everyone who snarks bothers to actually read the thread.

[goducks10]

Buyers remorse?

[NWnative]

Bobbo wrote:

NWnative wrote:
And yet you decided to buy the Airstream knowing it did not have a 12v plug...so why complain after the fact? Airstream uses an inverter as their option for those needing to run AC appliances...not to many other manufacturers do that. That is actually a more expensive option to install than a 12v plug that would only cost a few bucks. If I had a specific need for a 12v plug, I would have asked the dealer to install it as part of the deal. I guarantee you they would have done so to close the sale. Lastly as a few have mentioned, most RV's today do not include a 12v plug so, this is not unique to Airsteam. Most RV's don't include an inverter (unless they are high end) and the Airstream does. These are not marketed to those that boondock. For those that boondock, they usually set up a solar system with 12v plugs to go with them. Your dealer can do that as an installed option. AS has been around for many many years (ownership has changed) and, they will be around for many years to come. They can't build them fast enough for demand in fact, they recently announced an expansion of their factory and the addition of 300 jobs to keep up with demand. Install the plug and enjoy the AS. Bet RV we have ever owned....it's a keeper for us.

rbpru wrote:
My TT does not have 240 volt to 120 volt converter in case I travel in Europe, it does not have LP lights in case I want to eliminate batteries, it does not have a built in generator or solar in case I do want to use electricity boondocking.

All of these items are available if you want them for a price.

So, yes it is your fault if you want them and bought a TT without them. If enough people wanted a 12 volt outlet there would be one. This is obvious by number of TT bunk beds at the last RV show with USB ports or 120 v outlets.

If anything I would expect to see USB popping out all around the newer TTs.

These posts contribute nothing to the conversation, but thank you for playing.

Now, back to solving the problem. (BTW, if NWnative re-reads the first post of this thread he will see where the inverter is specifically addressed.)

Your welcome. What were you thinking buying an Airstream (or any RV for that matter) that did not have a 12v plug? Your logic goes both ways.

[Bobbo]

NWnative wrote:
And yet you decided to buy the Airstream knowing it did not have a 12v plug...so why complain after the fact? Airstream uses an inverter as their option for those needing to run AC appliances...not to many other manufacturers do that. That is actually a more expensive option to install than a 12v plug that would only cost a few bucks. If I had a specific need for a 12v plug, I would have asked the dealer to install it as part of the deal. I guarantee you they would have done so to close the sale. Lastly as a few have mentioned, most RV's today do not include a 12v plug so, this is not unique to Airsteam. Most RV's don't include an inverter (unless they are high end) and the Airstream does. These are not marketed to those that boondock. For those that boondock, they usually set up a solar system with 12v plugs to go with them. Your dealer can do that as an installed option. AS has been around for many many years (ownership has changed) and, they will be around for many years to come. They can't build them fast enough for demand in fact, they recently announced an expansion of their factory and the addition of 300 jobs to keep up with demand. Install the plug and enjoy the AS. Bet RV we have ever owned....it's a keeper for us.

rbpru wrote:
My TT does not have 240 volt to 120 volt converter in case I travel in Europe, it does not have LP lights in case I want to eliminate batteries, it does not have a built in generator or solar in case I do want to use electricity boondocking.

All of these items are available if you want them for a price.

So, yes it is your fault if you want them and bought a TT without them. If enough people wanted a 12 volt outlet there would be one. This is obvious by number of TT bunk beds at the last RV show with USB ports or 120 v outlets.

If anything I would expect to see USB popping out all around the newer TTs.

These posts contribute nothing to the conversation, but thank you for playing.

Now, back to solving the problem. (BTW, if NWnative re-reads the first post of this thread he will see where the inverter is specifically addressed.)

[rbpru]

My TT does not have 240 volt to 120 volt converter in case I travel in Europe, it does not have LP lights in case I want to eliminate batteries, it does not have a built in generator or solar in case I do want to use electricity boondocking.

All of these items are available if you want them for a price.

So, yes it is your fault if you want them and bought a TT without them. If enough people wanted a 12 volt outlet there would be one. This is obvious by number of TT bunk beds at the last RV show with USB ports or 120 v outlets.

If anything I would expect to see USB popping out all around the newer TTs.

[SoundGuy]

NWnative wrote:
And yet you decided to buy the Airstream knowing it did not have a 12v plug...so why complain after the fact?

So turn the blame back on the purchaser? Seriously? :S You're just rationalizing Airstream's poor judgement in not including at least one conventional 12 vdc outlet for utility use. Obviously when one is buying a new trailer, especially one as expensive as an Airstream, one is going to be paying attention to the main details and can easily overlook a small detail such as the lack of a 12 vdc outlet. Surely Airstream designers are smart enough to understand that this is still a useful device to many. Good grief. :R

[NWnative]

And yet you decided to buy the Airstream knowing it did not have a 12v plug...so why complain after the fact? Airstream uses an inverter as their option for those needing to run AC appliances...not to many other manufacturers do that. That is actually a more expensive option to install than a 12v plug that would only cost a few bucks. If I had a specific need for a 12v plug, I would have asked the dealer to install it as part of the deal. I guarantee you they would have done so to close the sale. Lastly as a few have mentioned, most RV's today do not include a 12v plug so, this is not unique to Airsteam. Most RV's don't include an inverter (unless they are high end) and the Airstream does. These are not marketed to those that boondock. For those that boondock, they usually set up a solar system with 12v plugs to go with them. Your dealer can do that as an installed option. AS has been around for many many years (ownership has changed) and, they will be around for many years to come. They can't build them fast enough for demand in fact, they recently announced an expansion of their factory and the addition of 300 jobs to keep up with demand. Install the plug and enjoy the AS. Bet RV we have ever owned....it's a keeper for us.

[BizmarksMom]

SoundGuy wrote:

rbpru wrote:
Most 12 volt items come with a 120 volt adapter so there really is little call for a 12volt tap.

I see it as the reverse - if the device works on 12 vdc and 12 vdc is available ditch the adapter entirely ... just what I did with my 12 vdc television in the trailer. :B

My thinking, exactly. But, I can count on one hand the number of nights I have spent at a campground with hookups. I don't use the 120 system at all.