Why ST tires?

[UTCoyote]

Hey All,

Total noob, trying to soak all this RV stuff in all at once. The Maxxis ST tires on my recently purchased 2001 TT "look" like new, but I don't know how old they actually are, so don't know how much life I should consider they really have in them. I need to research how to read the date code on them.

When I do buy new ones, I'm wondering why ST's? With their 65 MPH speed limit, there has to be some redeeming properties that make them desirable for TT/RV use?

Without knowing anything - which I don't - on the face of it, seems obvious to put LT's on. They can be had in load ratings plenty heavy enough and not be stuck in the slow lane with the semi's all the time.

- Coyote

[myredracer]

Huntindog: To respond to your post (wherever it is now..):

Not saying that ST tires need to be treated like glass all the time, just more respect for what they are. 65 mph isn't a magic barrier where the tires automatically disintegrate, but the more you run it to or over this rating, the shorter the life will be. I'm not so worried about the replacement cost, it's the safety aspect and the hassle of having to put on a spare tire in an unsafe or inconvenient location. Most RV-ers (I think) don't know they can't treat the same as on a passenger vehicle. But again, you won't know about this until you read lots of posts on the RV forums.

Anyway, in regards to tire balancing, I've attached a really interesting post from someone I know who is quite knowledgeable on tire balancing and I know has been around the block many times with some mild to severe issues on his TT. Seems like balancing just the tires alone is a waste of time and money. Look at posts #51, #53 & #55 by lynnmor.Posts on tire and drum balancing

Good suggestion on selling the tires that come with our trailer but by the time they get from the plant to the west coast dealer, they already have over 2000 miles on them. Almost at the end of their life by then (haha)..... Who knows how much care was taken by the delivery driver? I have a feeling they drive the snot out of them, but could be wrong. I'd love to go with LT tires from the start, but then I'd also have to replace the nice looking alloy wheels we've got in order to go 16". DW would not be pleased.

I wonder... Since it takes over 2K miles for a new trailer to be towed from the plant in Indiana to the west coast, is it fair for a new owner to buy a unit and start from day one with tires that are already substantially used? And possibly even abused? Especially in view of so many reports of exploding bomb Chinese tires? We have a 2 year warranty on our TT, but I'm not sure what we have on the tires. Would anyone accept new tires on a new car that has 2000 miles on the tires already? I think not. So for people who have had ST blowouts and live far away from the plant, perhaps the 2000+ miles on them on top of what you think you have done yourself, is contributing to tire failure? Are there more reported cases of ST tire failure on the west coast? I wonder if I could argue the case that tires on a new TT are substantially worn/used by the time it is on the dealer's lot and that they should be replaced?

If there are any LT D tires, it would be nice to know what they are. That could make for an easier solution to getting a better tire

TPMS sounds like a good idea and I will try and plead my case with DW.

Regarding fragility and not being to used for intended purpose, I could easily go into a discourse on frame strength following an investigation of the one on our new trailer. Trailers are being built on the thin edge of just being able to handle UVW and for driving on smooth as glass surfaces. The frames are way too elastic. And if we were to tow with a tank of fresh water, we'd be overloaded. If we were to tow with all 4 tanks tanks full, we'd be more than 1,000 lbs overloaded. That would not be good for the tires at all. How many out there are in the same situation and don't know? Then their tires fail or frames crack and they go "what the he**"?? Our Lippert frame is common to a lot of other makes and models. RV manufactures need a swift kick where it hurts. I digress, so back to the tire topic.

Have attached another thread which is by JBarca on internal tread separation. For those that haven't seen it, it's a fascinating read. Would make a good sticky. Thread on internal tire separation

[ktmrfs]

Huntindog wrote:
Look at all the available tires to shoose from in the 16" size...This is important as any tire may suffer a road hazard on a trip and need replacing NOW...In the 16" size a quality tire will be avsailable...There are some 15s, but not widely available. This goes for both STs and LTs.

ktmrfs wrote:
IMHO one of the biggest causes of TT tire failures, ST or LT, is slow loss of pressure ending in a tread seperation/blowout. You don't know about the pressure loss till to late. so I run a TPMS. I've posed the question. "Has anyone using a TPMS experienced a catastrophic tire failure on a trailer". So far I have not seen anyone reply that they have had a catastrophic failure with a TPMS, however multiple responders have said they got an early warning of tire pressure dropping, and caught a failure, and there was no other indication from driving that would have caused them to think they were having a tire go down.

So again, anyone with a TPMS have a blowout?? Has it warned you of a tire loosing pressure?

Are LT's better?? don't know, but if an LT in LRE was availble in 15" I'd give it strong consideration, meanwhile I'll be sticking with LRE ST's rather than upgrading to a 16" rim.

Huntingdog. I've been looking at 15" tires and only can find LRC LT's. If you know of any 15" LRD or preferablly LRE (2800lbs) I'd be interested in knowing about it. Seems like 16" has lots of LRE, but not in 15". But LRD (2500lb) 15" ST's are very common and 15" LRE (2800lb) is also readily available.

[CapriRacer]

ktmrfs wrote:
........So again, anyone with a TPMS have a blowout?? Has it warned you of a tire loosing pressure?....

I am extremely interested in the answer to that question. That would help sort out this issue some more.

The failure mode of interest doesn't result in a pressure loss - sudden or otherwise. HOWEVER, in the course of the failure, it is possible for the casing to lose integrity AFTER the initial failure.

So if we get reports of a loss of pressure first, with a failure second, we can be sure the problem isn't in the tire. But if we get the failure first, followed by a pressure loss later (and by later I'm talking at least 10 seconds), then that's indicative of a tire issue.

Of course, if the reports are in between, we can't sort this out.

[subcamper]

ktmrfs wrote:
So again, anyone with a TPMS have a blowout?? Has it warned you of a tire loosing pressure?

I did.

I have a TPMS that monitors temperature and pressure. The small-pressure loss threshold was set to about 3psi.

About 6 years ago, I was driving at 55-60mph on a state highway when there was a loud bang and the "sudden large pressure drop" warning started screaming.

There was no pre-warning of a 3psi drop or a spike in the temperature.

The tire had completely disintegrated. Fortunately no significant damage to trailer other than the skirt on the trailer was slighly bent outward.

I later upgraded to Denman tires with a higher load range (D) and all has been well so far. Unfortunately Denman appears to be out of business and based on the current tires being 6 years old, I will probably buy new tires next year. Not sure what I will get, porobably Maxxis. I would get LT but they are 15" and there are no similar load capacity LTs that fit in my wheel wells.

I suspect that LTs that fit might handle the same load as the STs but since LTs are used on occupied motor vehicles they are much more conservatively rated. I just don't see how a cheaper tire (ST) would really be able to handle a higher load than a more expensive tire (LT). It seems that it would take some special materials and fab techniques to allow a tire to carry extra load, and this would cost more not less. Just my opinion.

Steve

[Huntindog]

Look at all the available tires to shoose from in the 16" size...This is important as any tire may suffer a road hazard on a trip and need replacing NOW...In the 16" size a quality tire will be avsailable...There are some 15s, but not widely available. This goes for both STs and LTs.

ktmrfs wrote:
IMHO one of the biggest causes of TT tire failures, ST or LT, is slow loss of pressure ending in a tread seperation/blowout. You don't know about the pressure loss till to late. so I run a TPMS. I've posed the question. "Has anyone using a TPMS experienced a catastrophic tire failure on a trailer". So far I have not seen anyone reply that they have had a catastrophic failure with a TPMS, however multiple responders have said they got an early warning of tire pressure dropping, and caught a failure, and there was no other indication from driving that would have caused them to think they were having a tire go down.

So again, anyone with a TPMS have a blowout?? Has it warned you of a tire loosing pressure?

Are LT's better?? don't know, but if an LT in LRE was availble in 15" I'd give it strong consideration, meanwhile I'll be sticking with LRE ST's rather than upgrading to a 16" rim.

[ktmrfs]

IMHO one of the biggest causes of TT tire failures, ST or LT, is slow loss of pressure ending in a tread seperation/blowout. You don't know about the pressure loss till to late. so I run a TPMS. I've posed the question. "Has anyone using a TPMS experienced a catastrophic tire failure on a trailer". So far I have not seen anyone reply that they have had a catastrophic failure with a TPMS, however multiple responders have said they got an early warning of tire pressure dropping, and caught a failure, and there was no other indication from driving that would have caused them to think they were having a tire go down.

So again, anyone with a TPMS have a blowout?? Has it warned you of a tire loosing pressure?

Are LT's better?? don't know, but if an LT in LRE was availble in 15" I'd give it strong consideration, meanwhile I'll be sticking with LRE ST's rather than upgrading to a 16" rim.

[SprinklerMan]

in my opinion running ANY tire at its max speed rating and very close to its max weight rating is running on the edge . To me its similar to running a truck just below its max rpm all day long loaded , something is going to blow .

I run LT tires on all my dual axel heavy trailers 12K capacity on 10K trailers ,pleanty of reserve capacity , I run st tires on my light duty trailers single axel ( they are never more than 70% of capacity and local only)

Driving on the highway , I like knowing my tires are rated at 90 mph plus , I generally run with the flow of traffic up to 75 mph , Mostly run 65 , but my equipment can handle the higher speed due to the LT tires .

[Huntindog]

myredracer wrote:
The Marathons will have a higher load rating and are going to be better the unknown quality Freestar hecho en China ones we have now. Marathon is a better choice I've gathered from all the personal opinions I've seen. Biggest factor I see in failure is improper care, not where they are made. Too many just don't take care of their tires properly.

To throw out comments like all made in China tires are bombs waiting to happen is wrong. If that's what someone thinks, they ought to have something factual to back it up. Did the owner stay under 65 mph? limits are so limiting. What if you need to exceed it, or accidently exceed it? How good can any tire be that is limited to a lower speed that what is legal on many/most highways? Did they keep tires inflated correctly? In my case yes! How close are they to the GVWR or actual trailer wt? stock was barely legal, each subsequent upgrade increased the margin.. Multiple sets of ST tire, 3 of which were marathons all failed early. Towing on bumpy roads a lot like the washboard sections of I-5 in northern Cali? Ya got me there. All of my trips involve quite a few miles of dirt/washboard roads. My TT camps off the beaten path. I don't believe that ST tires or any tires should be so fragile as not be serviceable for the TTs intended purpose..Camping
It's self contained for a reason. Tires balanced ever? actually except for the original set, yes. I don't buy into it, but since they have always thrown it in at the last minute to seal the deal, I have accepted it.. And then insisted they use a lug plate, and watched to make sure they did it. See what I am getting at? ST tires can't take the same abuse that we're used to on automotive tires. That is for sure! Some is abuse, some is use. But ST tires need to be treated like glass, and I won't settle for that.

I've had the steel cords in 3 tires fail on tires in total while driving on the I-5 in Norcal. Two one trip and the other on a later trip. The first 2 were fairly new too. I can only imagine what that kind of road would do to ST tires. So if your ST made in China tires failed there, you'd automatically call them bombs???

I hate made in China quality just as much as anyone else these days, but you have to keep things in perspective and factual otherwise statements are meaningless. In fact, to take things a step further, then stop buying anything made in China and stop enabling them. Where are your clothes made? Kitchen plates and utensils? Electronics in your home? Just stop it already and stop whining about it. But nobody will 'cause the prices are too attractive and no-one can resist, from manufacturers to individuals. Don't get me going here!

If anyone can give me owner's experiences with Freestar tires, I'd love to hear about them. Google comes back with very little info. on them. May not have been around long enough yet to explode.

I have two choices with the dealer. Go with the Freestar load range C or upgrade to Marathon load range D. The Freestars are only 480 lbs above the GVWR which is not good. It's a no brainer as far as I am concerned without spending big bucks to upgrade from there.Is the dealer doing a warranty replacement?
If so, sell them immeadiatly while they are new and put the money towards a LT upgrade. Be an excellent time to make the jump more affordable.

Dealer is either woefully ignorant or does not want to get involved with discussing weight issues. Not a good way to run a business if you ask me.

[EldIr]

I replaced my made in Canada Marathons with made in China Marathons. I expect no issues. They are run at the correct pressure, no where near overloaded, always drive under 65 (although to be fair, that's just to save gas), tires are 303'd and covered anytime the tt is sitting. Goodyear may have had a bad run of Chinese Marathons a few years back, but I am completely confident they have rectified that situation. FWIW, the Maxxis on my mountain bike are made in China and they're all cracked to sh*t.

[myredracer]

The Marathons will have a higher load rating and are going to be better the unknown quality Freestar hecho en China ones we have now. Marathon is a better choice I've gathered from all the personal opinions I've seen. Biggest factor I see in failure is improper care, not where they are made. Too many just don't take care of their tires properly.

To throw out comments like all made in China tires are bombs waiting to happen is wrong. If that's what someone thinks, they ought to have something factual to back it up. Did the owner stay under 65 mph? Did they keep tires inflated correctly? How close are they to the GVWR or actual trailer wt? Towing on bumpy roads a lot like the washboard sections of I-5 in northern Cali? Tires balanced ever? See what I am getting at? ST tires can't take the same abuse that we're used to on automotive tires.

I've had the steel cords in 3 tires fail on tires in total while driving on the I-5 in Norcal. Two one trip and the other on a later trip. The first 2 were fairly new too. I can only imagine what that kind of road would do to ST tires. So if your ST made in China tires failed there, you'd automatically call them bombs???

I hate made in China quality just as much as anyone else these days, but you have to keep things in perspective and factual otherwise statements are meaningless. In fact, to take things a step further, then stop buying anything made in China and stop enabling them. Where are your clothes made? Kitchen plates and utensils? Electronics in your home? Just stop it already and stop whining about it. But nobody will 'cause the prices are too attractive and no-one can resist, from manufacturers to individuals. Don't get me going here!

If anyone can give me owner's experiences with Freestar tires, I'd love to hear about them. Google comes back with very little info. on them. May not have been around long enough yet to explode.

I have two choices with the dealer. Go with the Freestar load range C or upgrade to Marathon load range D. The Freestars are only 480 lbs above the GVWR which is not good. It's a no brainer as far as I am concerned without spending big bucks to upgrade from there.

Dealer is either woefully ignorant or does not want to get involved with discussing weight issues. Not a good way to run a business if you ask me.

[gmw_photos]

myredracer wrote:

Interestingly, I asked our dealer why anyone would upgrade to Marathon and he had no idea!! Are you kidding me?? ....

Maybe your dealer in a rather sublte way was trying to tell you the are not an upgrade. As in "trading one china bomb for another china bomb with a different name on the sidewall....."

[coolbreeze01]

Marathon's an up-grade? Good luck.

[myredracer]

I think the main issue with ST tires is the 65 mph max. rating they have, and not so much the safety related to the posted max. speed or the gas mileage.

So many shocking things you see other owners doing related to tires. Not just blowing by you on the interstate, but grossly overloaded tow vehicles everywhere you look. I try not to look anymore or think about it when I see them. Downright scary sometimes. I just try and focus on what we've got and doing it right. Sadly, it's hard to learn about this stuff unless you go to forums like this. It's like going to a doctor who will write you a prescription for whatever you want. RV dealers and manufacturers, tire makers, etc. will give you whatever you ask for. They just don't tell you what the side effects and signs and symptoms are of using over capacities.

The biggest thing I am getting from various posts is that the basic ST tires that most trailers have, are simply running at the max. of their capability at 65 mph and that running consistently at 65 and/or too often at over 65 mph is bad, bad, bad for these tires. Then they don't seem to be able to handle much abuse at all like running up against curbs, and running over or under inflated, extended exposure to UV rays and heat, hitting bumps and potholes and running them close to their max. load capacity.

For maximum ST tire life and satisfaction, it seems like they need to get the treatment and respect they need, not deserve. You've essentially got to baby them.

We are going to upgrade to Marathon tires, simply because that's all we can with our dealer without incurring a major expense. Interestingly, I asked our dealer why anyone would upgrade to Marathon and he had no idea!! Are you kidding me?? Maybe not tho because they routinely sell trailers too big for your TV.....

[Searching_Ut]

Sounds like you'll end up getting tires that serve you well. I've been towing an assortment of trailers for over 35 years now, and only ever blown a trailer tire once, and that was because I nailed a tire eating pothole with my boat trailer on the way back from lake Powell just outside of Hanksville.

So far I've towed my current Timber Ridge Travel trailer a little over 10,000 miles since I Purchased it in the Spring of last year. It has ST Goodyear Marathons on it which have worked flawlessly, and currently show little to no signs of wear. One big plus is that Outdoors RV tends to overbuild their products a little and they put tires on the trailer that have a combined load capacity of approximately 3000 lbs more than what they would have to carry at the trailers GVWR. My experience as mentioned has been that if you keep with within the weight rating of your tires, and keep the air pressure maxed out you'll get good service from your tires whatever they type.

Finally, as for LT tires, I've destroyed over a dozen of those over the years on my trucks, but that's because I tend to drive off road on occasion. In fact, I had to replace one of the ones on My 2011 Dodge Diesel at when I cut the sidewall on a rock while towing my RZR on a dirt road down in southern Utah. Seems I should have found a trail head closer to the pavement that day. While they may be tougher than Passenger tires, they are far from indestructible.

[baldag]

Well said. People tend to think of driving as an individual activity. It isn't. It's a community activity. How you drive has an effect on everybody for hundreds of yards around you.