Winter driving w/TC

[billtex]

I am no stranger to winter driving. We ski and I drive a lot in nasty/icy conditions. However, we usually don’t take the TC skiing until the shoulder season (late Feb/early March) when day time temps are above 32 deg F and the roads are not icy. It is just easier to deal with when weather and road conditions are not too extreme as they are mid-winter.
However, this year I am considering using the TC right through the entire winter for skiing. For those of you that regularly drive all winter in nasty conditions with the TC loaded up…isn’t it nerve wracking driving the TC in those conditions? For anyone that lives in snowy climates…it is only a matter of time before you slide off the road, regardless of how good a driver you are. I have been involved in 3 winter accidents in my lifetime. It happens, there is no avoiding it…but the thought of sliding off the road with the TC just horrifies me! Thoughts/experiences?
Tx, Bill

[billtex]

bobndot wrote:
The one time when it did freeze, I was able to use one of my DW's 5 hair dryers ( 1 primary 4 backups) to thaw it .

Bob...you are too funny

ticki2 wrote:
Spent 4 days wandering around that area a year ago October . Had the place almost to myself , beautiful country . Hard to boondock , town ordinances .Took rte 3 from home to the border

Bob #2...that is beautiful country up there...Magaloway "road" is really wild...

stevenal wrote:
The poor dogs had to cross their legs while waiting for me to thaw the lock.

Also funny...I can picture this!

[ticki2]

bobndot wrote:




If I have the op. to go up alone , i'll take the tc up as to not ruin my winter tc image 🙂
p.s we just returned from a week at L.Francis , Oct is close to winter ...isn't it ? Almost ??


Remember our door is always open ,

Bob

Spent 4 days wandering around that area a year ago October . Had the place almost to myself , beautiful country . Hard to boondock , town ordinances .Took rte 3 from home to the border .

[stevenal]

A few years ago we headed out in Feb looking for warmer weather in Arizona, finding plenty of snow both directions. With new tires (Silent Armour ATs with the mountain/snowflake mark) and the camper weight, I found the traction very secure. When the speedometer crept above 50 on the packed snow, I had to remind myself that might be a bit fast. We also experienced the crashing of the ice lifting off the roof when reaching warmer temperature at lower elevation. One takeaway: don't lock the camper door when traveling in these conditions. The poor dogs had to cross their legs while waiting for me to thaw the lock.

[bobndot]

I'm glad I inspired you, you should try it , you deserve it and I understand you wanting to use the new camper. Maybe you will inspire me to buy one .

If we used the tc for weekend get-a-ways where we could monitor the weather better, we would probably still do it . We were staying in it for 20 days or more at a time. A few times we got caught in very low -20/-30 F temps and i worried about the regulator freezing up. I wrapped it with insulation and bought a spare. The one time when it did freeze, I was able to use one of my DW's 5 hair dryers ( 1 primary 4 backups) to thaw it .



If I have the op. to go up alone , i'll take the tc up as to not ruin my winter tc image 🙂
p.s we just returned from a week at L.Francis , Oct is close to winter ...isn't it ? Almost ??


Remember our door is always open ,

Bob

[Oldtymeflyr]

My problem with studded tires is that in non ice conditions they greatly extend the stopping distance.

[billtex]

bobndot wrote:
Winter tires create better rubber contact with snow/ice, they bite better and offer a quiet ride over snow tires as well as longer wear.

We use them on all our fleet vehicles, with very good results. I could feel the difference when running the course in the snow, I was able to push the speed and stay within the cones, something I could not do running all seasons.

this explains things better than I can.
http://www.wheels.ca/how-do-winter-tires-differ-from-snow-tires/

Bill, do your best (wax/sprays) to protect your tie-downs , rear skirts and jacks from New England road salt. That's what did me in and is probably why I had so many jack binding issues, cracked fastguns and rotted tie-down brackets that I had to replace.
We now have the cabin and use the lease SUV to head north to snowmobile. It took its toll on the camper that we now use in warmer weather.

Good luck with your new camper, regards to the family , stay safe.

Bob

Bob...no more snowmobiling with the TC?!
You were my (winter) inspiration!

We are running Goodrich Commercial Traction T/S M+S rated tires...and they are the best tire I have EVER had in the snow.

We'll see how this winter goes in New England...it it is icy we will probably just wait until spring skiing as we usually do.
If snow is good and roads not too bad....could be we'll use the TC all winter.
Thanks for all the good advice...last thing I want to do is roll our new TC into a ditch...

Bill

[silversand]

Bill:

I had NEVER planned to drive in winter (winter-like conditions) with our TC ever....however, we had no choice in 2007:

-luckily, we had winter rated tires on (BFG TA Ko) the rig;
-we entered a brutal snow hurricane crossing Wyoming;
-driving in 2x4 on the Interstate kicked in my Quebec winter driving radar;
-there was NO sand, rock or salt used the entire 266 miles of the snow hurricane;
-I slowed it down to 48 MPH, but was just slightly faster than most, but the passing lane was almost totally open;
-wind hitting us broadside (roughly 40 MPH wind) didn't affect our traction with TC aboard;
-I always leave enough space that I never have to use the brakes (I glide to slow down, and have enough space to do it);
-as the snow let up (near the Utah border with Wyoming) large sheets of ice/slush lifted off our roof 10 to 14 feet long, and hit the Interstate behind us (it would have wiped out smaller cars IF they would have been following closely). I then pulled off the Interstate to inspect for more glaciers up top, but it had all disappeared.

So, this was the one and only time we (I) drove in winter (like conditions), however, I had nearly a years worth of "winter driving" distance using the TC at the absolute extreme scale during this one instance. I was surprised how stable the rig was given no abrasive or salt on the roads. I was very surprised that Wyoming DOT hadn't closed the Interstate (!) I was woken up to the fact that huge quantities of ice/slush can accumulate on the roof of our truck camper, and could potentially fly off and kill someone driving too closely behind. I was pleased at the traction in 2x4 with our winter rated tires with gale-force cross-winds at speeds just under 50 MPH, so no 4x4 needed. I was glad I did not have to brake for accidents and could use gliding to check speeds going down long hills.

Would I knowingly do this again ? Never. Would I drive our truck camper in winter? Maybe, if it meant getting to the Florida Keys from the North during a climatological hole in the weather.

On edit: I just read the above Post, and have additional: yes, TIRES make a huge difference, I agree, IF you are a trained winter driver of heavy trucks. We are not winter driver trained on trucks that weigh in excess of 9000 LBS, I should mention. I would have only considered the Nokian Hakkapeliitta snow tire on our rig IF we ever decide to winter drive said (and, IF they have the size for our rim dimension).

Silver-

[bb_94401]

2x "BUY GREAT TIRES"

I run studded Nokian Hakkapeliitta. The studless tires have come a long way but for the transition zone before you get to nice compact snow, the studded, sipped, soft rubber compound version has more traction in the black ice situations. The truck TC combination handles slush really well.

Like everyone says slow down, no lateral g's when cornering. Smooth inputs to the accelerator, brake or steering wheel. Try and straighten out the curve on that icy overpass or bridge.

I like driving late at night up to a ski resort. Less traffic. DOT has a chance to sand the road and you know it is below freezing, so there is no question that what was water is now ice. Drive accordingly. At night it is also easier to see the edge of the road or the snowplow pile in a blizzard with good fog lamps, whereas during the day it is all just a white out.

Going uphill isn't an issue with 4WD and the TC in the back
Going down hill under most conditions I leave my exhaust brake on. However if it is really icy or if it is raining on compact snow I'll shut it off and use the brakes lightly to slowly descend.

I also carry dry sand in old gallon container in the truck. I use it in the situations where I'm forced to stop going uphill because cars have lost it and blocked the road, making hard for me to restart. I just open the lid and make a 6 foot trail in front of each tire, you don't need to use much. I then walk up and do the same for the car that tried to pass the mess and is now blocking the lane. That gets them going and out of my way so they can put on chains and I can get going without having to resort to chains. The lidded container seals the sand up nicely after you use it and keeps it dry, unlike a bag of sand that gets everywhere and wet.

Snowy roads are easy to drive on if you are prepared and there is no reason to be drifting sideways in your TC. Even icy roads can be navigated safety with a combination of good equipment, good technique and judgment. If it was an east coast ice storm I'd stay home or wait at the resort until things got better, as I always carry extra supplies.

If you are winter camping more in the dead of winter, have a contingency plan for various things that go wrong. Propane autoswitch valves not switching, furnace running a lot more and draining a marginal sized battery bank or old batteries, or getting stuck at a resort due to a road closure.

If you are at a resort and get a big winter storm, a shovel is really nice, as is a safe way to clear off the roof near your vent. Once more than a foot of snow is on my roof the warm air coming out the bathroom vent makes a chimney in the snow, unforturnately the warm air from the black and gray tank vents do the same and join together to make one big smelly chimney. This less than pristine air then comes back into your TC when you turn the fan off, unless you clear that section of the roof.

Spend time this fall insulating and sealing openings (the air conditioning and stove vents are just big holes to the outside. We can go about 4 days on a tank of propane with the camper at 70F inside when it is -10F outside. Makes my girlfriend really happy. We run the propane while traveling so the camper stays warm and doesn't get a chance to cool off. We don't winterize and enjoy using water. The pleasure of being comfortable and warm while parked at the base of a chair makes one forget about the worries of the drive up.

We ski about 70 days a year and have visited over a hundred ski resorts in our TC without going off the road, nor drifting out of control. We still have a lot more to explore. There are at least 241 ski areas in the western US and Canada so think about a winter road trip when you get tired of skiing on icy east coast slopes. Just carry a PLB, as out here there isn't great cell phone coverage if something happens.

[bobndot]

Drive as if you have a cup of coffee on the dash.
Buy winter tires, they are made of softer rubber and have technology that resists the snow from packing the tires grooves, resulting in snow to snow traction (non-traction).
Its like rolling a snowball, the further it travels the more snow it gathers. The same thing occurs on all-season tires , they have the tendency to pack snow and NOT release ice/snow from their grooves , causing the vehicle to slip before it should. This is augmented by the extra weight of the camper.
Winter tires create better rubber contact with snow/ice, they bite better and offer a quiet ride over snow tires as well as longer wear.

We use them on all our fleet vehicles, with very good results. I could feel the difference when running the course in the snow, I was able to push the speed and stay within the cones, something I could not do running all seasons.

this explains things better than I can.
http://www.wheels.ca/how-do-winter-tires-differ-from-snow-tires/

Bill, do your best (wax/sprays) to protect your tie-downs , rear skirts and jacks from New England road salt. That's what did me in and is probably why I had so many jack binding issues, cracked fastguns and rotted tie-down brackets that I had to replace.
We now have the cabin and use the lease SUV to head north to snowmobile. It took its toll on the camper that we now use in warmer weather.

Good luck with your new camper, regards to the family , stay safe.

Bob

[btggraphix]

Love winter driving in our 19,000 pound combo! Yeah the consequences can be higher but so is the reward. I Feel way safer in it than commuting in my Jetta amongst all the other rats in the race mixed in with semis too. I'd rather be driving it when the other drivers are the biggest risk. In all my winter miles I don't think I've even spun my dual rear wheels except trying to push through deep deep snow a couple of times. Never on a roadway.

Keep the camper on, Be careful, be safe, look ahead, BUY GREAT TIRES, and enjoy the winter!!!!!

[iwon415]

Much good advice given here. I would add that personally, I feel that if I have to chain up with 4WD, I probably shouldn't be out in it...

Having the camper on makes for great traction but lousy stopping.

[jefe_4x4]

Some good advice above. The main thing is that you have a lot of rolling weight, kenetic energy as it were, so you develop a feel for slippery driving which includes making all changes of direction, speed, or braking in a slow, calculated manner. The one thing not mentioned above is the huge variety of snow conditions. In VT i imagine it is rather fluffy and easy to motate thru drifts but easy to spin a wheel in. Here in the Sierra Nevada we have a texture called, "Sierra Cement" which describes snow with a very high water content. We get a lot of our snow at 34F to 28F and It ices up very easily.
My experience with dualies on snow is not a good one, even with snow tires. There is just too little ground pressure.You will have lots of ground pressure.
I don't see any problem for you besides fear. Just make sure the pressure is up on your tires and go....slowly.
Here is a little TC winter driving down our lane the week we moved in: March 2006. As a disclaimer, I did have to winch when the snow got deeper than 4 feet, just up the road on the unplowed part.

jefe

[mkirsch]

The most important thing to remember is to panic and abandon all rational thought the moment you're faced with the smallest adversity. Jerk the steering wheel rapidly back and forth. Stomp on the brakes and gas pedal, preferably at the same time. Make sure your tires are bald. Turn on your 4-way flashers and drive 5MPH in a light flurry.

[Bedlam]

I ski weekly in the winter with the TC. As others have noted, your traction is much better with the amount of weight you have on the primary drive wheels, but that weight wants to continue traveling at the same rate and direction when you try to slow or turn. Reduce your speed and enjoy the drive. I find I use 4WD going downhill more than up so I have engine braking on all four corners instead of just the rear.

I carry chains, but have not ever had to use them on a 4WD vehicle.