Winterize and battery ??

[Texan79423]

I have my TT winterized, tire covers, check battery water level, and parked under a shed. My plan is to leave the battery in the battery box.
I left it plugged in to 110 outlet for three days to charge but did not check it with a meter just assumed it charged.
l flipped the disconnect switch to off. I plan to go out and plug it in once a month. I have a wet Interstate 24 battery.

Hope this works and replies welcome

[esox07]

I installed a battery isolation switch on my TT. When not it use, the battery is completely isolated from the trailer electrical system which completely eliminates any possible parasitic draw.
Second, when not being used, especially in the winter, I keep it on a battery tender which has a desulfating function.
The battery tender had the battery connection pigtail with a quick disconnect that I can plug and unplug the battery tender at will. It takes me less than a minute to isolate the battery and connect the battery tender each time I return from a camping trip or when I winterize my camper. It stays on the battery tender from November until April during our Wisconsin winters. Never have to worry about the battery not being topped off or just plain dead.
The battery isolation switch, if your trailer doesn't have one will cost you $25 for a good one and I would expect to pay $25 to $50 for the battery tender. You can get them cheaper, but it isn't something you want to use to cut costs. Continuously replacing $100 plus batteries is the result if you don't spend the money up front.

https://www.amazon.com/BatteryMINDer-1510-Battery-Charger/dp/B00Q3CM2QY

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Blue-Sea-Systems-6006-Switch-Battery-Mini-On-Off-W-Knob/33272242

[Sam_Spade]

proxim2020 wrote:
It's much easier to toss and get a new one, but I'm a tinkerer. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

I once was but not anymore.

I will NOT, however, just throw something out on a total whim; I need at least a rough idea that it really is bad first.

How long it takes a "smart" charger to indicate a full charge is but one of the rough indicators you can use. The other main one for me is slower than "normal" cranking speed.

We do disagree on the worth of some "tinkering" activities. I think my time could be MUCH better spent than trying to eek out the last few months of life from a battery. Like going for a bike ride.....or like now when I feel a nap coming on. :B

[spike99]

If talking about winters in Texas, then I'd leave the battery inside the RV/TT and simply trickle charge it a few days each month.

If talking about winters in my north region, then remove the battery and store insides. -50s solidify (and split) some batteries in my region.

[westend]

This reminded me to charge up my utility 12V's. They were sitting next to the pump where they were last used.

As Proxim states, a battery that isn't charged or left in a discharged state will start to sulfate immediately. Best scenario is to keep some voltage on them continually. I now have a 12V bench supply with Open Circuit voltage of 15.5 VDC connected to one battery. The voltage at the terminals is 12.7 V. I will watch the voltage over the next few days as it rises and will remove charge at 14 V or so. That will give the battery a full charge and be ready for another use.

[Community Alumni]

Smart chargers aren't the best indicators of overall health. While chargers are capable of detecting some faults, they're normally not capable of detecting them in their early stages. Chargers are what they are, chargers. Very basic voltage and resistance testing is what you get. A series of tests performed by actual battery testers are a good way to determine a battery's health. Battery testers are capable of performing more complex versions of tests like load, charge and release, current, CCA, impedance, capacity, etc. There's some things that electronic testers just can't do, like measuring gravity with a temperature corrected hydrometer or deconstruction.

I've used all of these methods to determine the actual health or revive a battery. These methods won't give you a simple red, yellow, or green light, but values that must be interpreted and compared against manufacturer specs. With how readily available batteries are these days, most don't bother going through all of this. It's much easier to toss and get a new one, but I'm a tinkerer. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

[Sam_Spade]

Note: I have tried for 15 minutes to get a quote from the previous post to be included with my reply but it fails EVERY time. It's the same kind of error that happens when there is a percent sign present.
I can see no reason that it should do that.



I'm sorry but I don't agree with that at all. My experience has been exactly the opposite.

In a bike that has ZERO parasitic drain, you can fully charge an AGM battery and leave it out in the cold for 3 months with no appreciable change......as evidenced by the fact that a "smart" charger connected to it after that time reports a full charge after only about two minutes. I've had them last OVER 5 years being treated like that.

I don't recommend, however, that you ever ASSume what is going on and just leave any battery completely unattended for over 30 days. You need to check it and charge as necessary....until you really determine that it doesn't need charging, that is.

[Community Alumni]

Sam Spade wrote:

Good post but some comments are in order, I think.

Note that NONE of that really applies to a healthy AGM battery.

Those only lose 1 to 3 percent of a full charge a month and sometimes less than that. An AGM is also less prone to sulphation than a wet cell.

And with a wet cell, a 15 percent loss of charge over a month is not enough to cause any significant change to it's life spam. Usually the self-discharge loss is much less than that.

SO.....connecting a charger for 12 hours or so once a month should be plenty for a HEALTHY wet cell battery.....and once every 3 months for an AGM. That is IF they are disconnected to remove parasitic loads.

And I object to the use of the term "trickle charger" even with the "regulated" description when it comes to a charger that you leave connected all the time. Part of the reason is that particular terminology is almost NEVER used by the manufacturers of small automatic smart tender type chargers.

AGM batteries are far superior to flooded cell batteries. Yes there’s far less self discharging, however, AGM batteries still sulfate just as flooded cells do. Sulfation is an unavoidable consequence of the chemical reaction that takes place to create energy. Once sulfate ions give up their negative charge, they bond with the negative plates and start forming sulfate crystals. As discharging continues the crystals will continue to grow and become hardened. This process takes place in all lead acid batteries.

Applying a charge soon after a discharge dissolves the crystals and incorporates the sulfate ions back into the electrolyte solution. However, some crystals are not dissolved during the charging process and the cycle continues over years.

In a standby setting, AGM batteries are far superior. Due to their natural low self discharge rate the process of sulfation occurs more slowly and is more easily reversed. In a state of rest sulfation happens rather rapidly in flooded cell batteries. However, in a state of use they’re pretty much even. Batteries are discharged (frequently deeply), undercharged, and allowed to rest for long periods without a charge in trailer applications, so AGM batteries are still subjected to sulfation.

If someone wanted to upgrade to an AGM battery then that would be a good move, it’s a better battery. There’s a lot of pluses to them and they’re a little bit more dummy proof, but they’ll still have to be maintained if you want them to last for a long time. LiFePo4 and LiFeMnPo4 are even better, but those are mostly cost prohibitive now and there’s a learning curve for some.

I’ve maintained all kinds of battery technologies over the years in lots of different applications, even built quite a few packs and arrays. When it comes to motorcycle batteries, if you’ve left a flooded cell battery for a couple of months with no charge then you’ve effectively killed it. Just recycle it and get a new one because it will never recover from the damage it’s suffered. If you’ve left an AGM version for the same time period, it wouldn’t suffer the same level of damage as the flood cell, but the life has definitely been shorted. The downward spiral has already started and you’ll be lucky to get another season out if it. I’ve had this happen with practically new batteries. If you were to disassemble the battery then you can easily see the telltale crystals on the plates with a magnifying glass. Because of the physical form factor of motorcycle batteries, they’re a lot more sensitive to damage than batteries we use in RV applications.

The vast majority of batteries for trailer applications are flooded cells though. When it comes to OEM and replacement, most choose the lower cost flood cell battery. The risk of damage is far too great with these batteries which is why it’s best to keep the battery at a full charge. The damage isn’t visible, catastrophic, or immediate, but cumulative. A lot like exceeding the speed rating on a tire. If you talk to any battery manufacturer they’ll all tell you the same thing. If you want to get the longest life out of a battery then keep it charged. Keeping the battery on a trickle charger, maintainer, smart charger, or whatever you feel is semantically correct, is the way to go.

[pira114]

Sam Spade wrote:

pira114 wrote:

Sam Spade wrote:

pira114 wrote:
I pull my battery between every trip all year. It sits on a battery tender when not in use. Always. It's on its 9th year and no signs of trouble.

As indicated by the post following yours..............

IF the batteries are fully charged, simply disconnecting them in place is all that is needed IF your next trip will be within about 30 days.

But if it makes you somehow feel better to waste all of that time and effort, then by all means keep it up.

First, "all that time and effort" maybe equals 5 mins. It's simply not that hard.

Second, you qualified your statement with "IF your next trip will be within about 30 days." Not everyone can take a trip once a month. And this thread is about winterizing. So I'd venture a guess the OP isn't planning on a trip in the next few weeks.

Third, there's simply no disputing that a tender is better than simply disconnecting. A $35 tender and 5 mins of work is worth it to me to begin every trip knowing for sure I have a fully charged and healthy battery.

But if you somehow feel better taking that chance, by all means, keep it up.

SIGH.

I was not commenting on the OPs post but on YOURS.
That is why I quoted YOUR post and not his.

And I stand by every word that I said.

Every time you screw with something unnecessarily there is a risk that something will be broken; like dropping a battery and breaking your foot.

I stand corrected. You're right. If you're gonna break something, especially your foot, you should definitely not be messing around with anything. In fact, you better stay indoors.....SIGH

[Sam_Spade]

pira114 wrote:

Sam Spade wrote:

pira114 wrote:
I pull my battery between every trip all year. It sits on a battery tender when not in use. Always. It's on its 9th year and no signs of trouble.

As indicated by the post following yours..............

IF the batteries are fully charged, simply disconnecting them in place is all that is needed IF your next trip will be within about 30 days.

But if it makes you somehow feel better to waste all of that time and effort, then by all means keep it up.

First, "all that time and effort" maybe equals 5 mins. It's simply not that hard.

Second, you qualified your statement with "IF your next trip will be within about 30 days." Not everyone can take a trip once a month. And this thread is about winterizing. So I'd venture a guess the OP isn't planning on a trip in the next few weeks.

Third, there's simply no disputing that a tender is better than simply disconnecting. A $35 tender and 5 mins of work is worth it to me to begin every trip knowing for sure I have a fully charged and healthy battery.

But if you somehow feel better taking that chance, by all means, keep it up.

SIGH.

I was not commenting on the OPs post but on YOURS.
That is why I quoted YOUR post and not his.

And I stand by every word that I said.

Every time you screw with something unnecessarily there is a risk that something will be broken; like dropping a battery and breaking your foot.

[pira114]

Sam Spade wrote:

pira114 wrote:
I pull my battery between every trip all year. It sits on a battery tender when not in use. Always. It's on its 9th year and no signs of trouble.

As indicated by the post following yours..............

IF the batteries are fully charged, simply disconnecting them in place is all that is needed IF your next trip will be within about 30 days.

But if it makes you somehow feel better to waste all of that time and effort, then by all means keep it up.

First, "all that time and effort" maybe equals 5 mins. It's simply not that hard.

Second, you qualified your statement with "IF your next trip will be within about 30 days." Not everyone can take a trip once a month. And this thread is about winterizing. So I'd venture a guess the OP isn't planning on a trip in the next few weeks.

Third, there's simply no disputing that a tender is better than simply disconnecting. A $35 tender and 5 mins of work is worth it to me to begin every trip knowing for sure I have a fully charged and healthy battery.

But if you somehow feel better taking that chance, by all means, keep it up.

[Sam_Spade]

proxim2020 wrote:

Time between charges is really the enemy. Not charging a motorcycle battery for just 2 months is enough severely shorten its life and performance.

Good post but some comments are in order, I think.

Note that NONE of that really applies to a healthy AGM battery.

Those only lose 1 to 3 percent of a full charge a month and sometimes less than that. An AGM is also less prone to sulphation than a wet cell.

And with a wet cell, a 15 percent loss of charge over a month is not enough to cause any significant change to it's life spam. Usually the self-discharge loss is much less than that.

SO.....connecting a charger for 12 hours or so once a month should be plenty for a HEALTHY wet cell battery.....and once every 3 months for an AGM. That is IF they are disconnected to remove parasitic loads.

And I object to the use of the term "trickle charger" even with the "regulated" description when it comes to a charger that you leave connected all the time. Part of the reason is that particular terminology is almost NEVER used by the manufacturers of small automatic smart tender type chargers.

[Community Alumni]

The problem with just disconnecting a battery is sulfation, something that slowly kills every lead acid battery over time. The natural byproduct of a discharging battery is the formation of lead sulfate. Once discharging beings so does sulfation. This sulfation sticks to the negative plates and, if left unattended, hardens onto the plate.

Batteries naturally discharge 1 to 15 percent per month with older batteries self discharging more than new. There's plenty of time for sulfation to take place in a battery that's resting and slowly discharging. The more a battery discharges, the more sulfation takes place.

Time between charges is really the enemy. Not charging a motorcycle battery for just 2 months is enough severely shorten its life and performance. Charging reverses the process of sulfation by causing the sulfate to reincorporate back into the electrolyte solution, however, this only works if the battery gets a charge soon after it's begun discharging. If not, the sulfation will begin to harden onto the negative plate and no amount of regular charging will reverse it. The battery starts a downward spiral of accumulated sulfate from normal discharges and self discharges. The harden sulfate reduces the surface area where chemical reactions can take place and you're left with a battery that struggles to hold a charge or won't take a charge at all. This is one of the reason why every lead acid battery will eventually fail.

The best way to reduce how much a battery sulfates is to keep the battery in a constant full charge state. This is how regulated trickle chargers help prolong the life of batteries. Since regulated trickle chargers are safely keeping the battery in a constant full state, the sulfate ions stay incorporated in the electrolyte solution and not sticking to the negative plates. It's also why our friend above has been able to get their battery to survive for 9 years as opposed to the typical 3-5 year life of a marine / deep cycle battery in trailer applications.

Most never give a second thought to replacing a failing battery once it's reached 5 years old. You constantly read comments to the effect of, "Once you're past 5 years then you're on borrowed time." But a battery that's been diligently maintained can easily last 10+ years.

[Sam_Spade]

pira114 wrote:
I pull my battery between every trip all year. It sits on a battery tender when not in use. Always. It's on its 9th year and no signs of trouble.

As indicated by the post following yours..............

IF the batteries are fully charged, simply disconnecting them in place is all that is needed IF your next trip will be within about 30 days.

But if it makes you somehow feel better to waste all of that time and effort, then by all means keep it up.

[Boon_Docker]

Mine sit outside for the winter, left on the trailer. I disconnect them and fully charge the (2) 6v batteries in November and recharge again in April. They are 6 years old now.