Wow Pop Ups are expensive!

[Mike_Up]

Honestly, we don't camp a whole lot anymore with all the kids activities and my work schedule. Since the camper sits most of the time, while the caulking goes bad, I got sick of paying for the labor costs to do all the caulking. I simply have bad knees and a lack of time to do it myself.

Well after looking at several Rockwood pop ups, Freedom and Premier series, I found it cheaper to let the Jay Flight sit and pay the caulking repairs than to get a new Pop Up which have far few maintenance costs.

The Premier 2516G and 2716G were the same cost as the dealers Wildwood Travel Trailer that had the same floorplan as my Jay Flight 26BH. Unbelievable how much manufacturers are asking for tent on wheels. They are just pricing themselves out of a job. None of the other dealers within 3 hours even had a camper I'd consider as either none had an indoor toilet/shower or have any pop ups at all.

Can't believe that these makers are pricing these pop ups out of existence.

[ktmrfs]

now that pop ups have most or all the ammenties of a big trailer, the cost for all those items fixes a starting price. Notice the cost difference between a 15ft and 35 ft trailer. not a lot, both have all the same starting stuff. the fridge, oven, stove, microwave, holding tanks, water heater, charger, furnace, shower, fridge, on and on are pretty much the same.

[gheicher]

drsteve wrote:
.....It is a tent on wheels with a propane system. Do they currently even offer such a bare bones unit?

The closest camper I know of presently is made by LivinLight. Probably talking about $12K plus for a new one.

[drsteve]

I suspect the price increase is due to having more bells and whistles.

My '91 Palomino, for example, has two beds, a dinette, a stovetop, and a furnace. That's it. There's a small fresh water tank, and a hand pump at the sink. No fridge. No bathroom. No waste tanks. No slide out. No A/C. Raises with a hand crank. So light it doesn't even need brakes.

It is a tent on wheels with a propane system. Do they currently even offer such a bare bones unit?

[SoundGuy]

Mike Up wrote:
........Can't believe that these makers are pricing these pop ups out of existence.

gheicher wrote:
My friend, who is an executive in the pop-up manufacturing business, states that pups are very difficult to build. Many more separate parts than a TT plus needs complicated lift system. That plus the decreasing volume of pups now being sold, just exacerbates the situation.

Hindsight is a great thing so in looking back on my own experience thinking I could just replace our travel trailer with an inexpensive used popup for occasional use I'm convinced now my mistake was in not choosing some sort of small hard wall trailer. In my own defense though I did make an effort, taking an out of town trip to dealer who had a sizeable stock of R-Pod trailers, but boy were they expensive, even used ones were 3x what I paid for the Coleman Yuma I eventually did buy. I also tried to find a hard wall Coleman Tacoma that was produced for just one model year but they're very rare and any that do exist are priced far more than they're worth, at least to me. I also visited the nearby distributor for ALiner, but again even well used ones were way beyond what I was willing to spend, ergo I ended up with a popup. It was a conundrum to be sure so I understand fully the OP's predicament.

[gheicher]

Mike Up wrote:
........Can't believe that these makers are pricing these pop ups out of existence.

My friend, who is an executive in the pop-up manufacturing business, states that pups are very difficult to build. Many more separate parts than a TT plus needs complicated lift system. That plus the decreasing volume of pups now being sold, just exacerbates the situation.

Its a bit sad since pop-ups were the standard family camper for many year - Now it seem more people are looking for convenience. The pop-up still has a lot to offer especially with small children experiencing the great outdoors. My original camper was just a tent on wheels but now I have a TT with a real bathroom, fridge, and AC. While tent trailers can still be purchased, they are not really flying off the shelf.

[SoundGuy]

rbpru wrote:
I meant to point out that money is not the only PUP vs TT decision.

For the OP who is well experienced with both popups and travel trailers and who initiated this discussion himself, a popup it seems would once again work just fine for him, in which case "money" really does seem to be his only concern.

rbpru wrote:
In the end it is a hobby, there is no way to justify or dismiss another's choice.

For sure, the OP's final decision is his alone to make ... I just happen to disagree with his math. 😉

[rbpru]

Unfortunately, there is no practical solution to the OPs comments. I meant to point out that money is not the only PUP vs TT decision.

I am curious what percentage of the cost increase is due to increased options vs. inflation and lower volume.

In the end it is a hobby, there is no way to justify or dismiss another's choice.

[SoundGuy]

rbpru wrote:
There is far more to PUPs vs TTs than just costs and convenience. If they are your only measure than PUPs are cheaper TTs are more convenient.

That's not the OP's dilemma - he's not a newbie, has been in the game a long time, has owned popups before and isn't looking for an edumacation on the differences between camping in a popup vs camping in a travel trailer. Rather, he's in the same situation many of us have found ourselves in - plenty of years of camping, progression from tents, to popups, to TTs, etc, but then times change, that trailer begins to sit more and more yet continues to depreciate and incur ongoing maintenance & ownership expenses. Selling it is easy but then what? ... once it's gone, it's gone, which would mean no more camping, unless in a tent. The solution - a popup that is and always has been a quantum leap up from camping in a tent but without the significant costs of a travel trailer. I tried going back to a popup myself for this exact reason but it didn't work for us, the OP is a different person and obviously has decided that it would, EXCEPT his brand of math tells him he'd be better off financially keeping his TT. My math says otherwise and I'm convinced that if he wants to stay in the game for years more while minimizing his costs for a camper he won't use much then he'd be much better off in the long run to get rid of his aging TT and buy that new popup he likes so much. He disagrees, as is his right, as it's also his right to call an end to this debate. 😉

[rbpru]

There is far more to PUPs vs TTs than just costs and convenience. If they are your only measure than PUPs are cheaper TTs are more convenient.

There are many subtle nuances to camping which also include the so called inconveniences of wet, cold, smoke and etc.

If those are not important to you then all you have to do is choose cost verses convenience.

[Mike_Up]

time2roll wrote:

Mike Up wrote:
Everyone here has stated how they sold their pop ups to a third owner, after buying used. I have looked used, they're junk here privately and through dealers. Then dealers who seem to have the most units, are way over priced for junk. It's only reasonable to buy new unless you're a sucker.

Yes when I bought mine used it was a cream puff. Dentist had bought new and camped twice in two years. Still had the fresh vinyl smell when opened. Was stored in his garage while the corvette sat outside. He wanted $12,000. I showed up with $6,000 cash and ended up walking away. He called later and we agreed on $6,500 and settled the next day.

Maybe some luck but a wad of $100 bills is very enticing. Keep looking, something will come along that works.

I think we're done for now. We'll stick to camping in the Travel Trailer and if we sell it, maybe tents.

[time2roll]

Mike Up wrote:
Everyone here has stated how they sold their pop ups to a third owner, after buying used. I have looked used, they're junk here privately and through dealers. Then dealers who seem to have the most units, are way over priced for junk. It's only reasonable to buy new unless you're a sucker.

Yes when I bought mine used it was a cream puff. Dentist had bought new and camped twice in two years. Still had the fresh vinyl smell when opened. Was stored in his garage while the corvette sat outside. He wanted $12,000. I showed up with $6,000 cash and ended up walking away. He called later and we agreed on $6,500 and settled the next day.

Maybe some luck but a wad of $100 bills is very enticing. Keep looking, something will come along that works.

[SoundGuy]

SoundGuy wrote:
Hmmmmm, earlier you said - "The Rockwood Freedom 2280 with shower, toilet, Air Conditioner is $11,400 which is way overpriced. I was expecting no more than $9,800 for all of it." So you were willing to go ahead with this popup purchase for $9,800 but not $11,400, a difference of just $1600? Either way you'd still have payments or have to make up for the difference in cash so other than saying $11,400 is more than this popup is worth why is one a show stopper when the other is not?

Mike Up wrote:
Because when the price is more than the camper is worth, you don't pay it. $1600 is 16% of the price it should had been. So that's a mark up of $1600.

I had a limit of how much out of pocket I was willing to spend. That overpricing right there was most of it.

We'd owned a couple of popups, a hybrid, then a K-Z Spree family travel trailer and over the years when our boys were younger did a lot of traveling and camping, mostly across the US. Once they hit high school commitments had an impact and eventually it came to the point where neither one had the time or interest to camp with us any longer. After 6 yrs with the Spree we decided to sell it as it didn't make much sense dragging around a triple bunk bed trailer my wife & I only used occasionally yet which was continuing to depreciate in value day by day and would still incur ongoing maintenance & operating costs. I anticipated we'd take a break for a few years before getting back in but that first winter without any camper had me thinking about a small used popup I could use myself a few times each season when I might be in the mood for a little camping. I found a 10 yr old Coleman Yuma in great shape and spent the early spring setting it up to my liking. As it turned out it was the perfect solution - only a few thou to buy, very little expense to outfit, a significant increase in gas mileage when towed with my truck vs towing a full height travel trailer, and I could once again park it in my heated workshop. Win - Win ... or so I thought. As it turned out my wife surprised me by deciding to go along a number of times and it was at that point we both decided that a tent trailer just wasn't going to cut it any more. I sold it for more than I paid for it and bought the 19' couple's trailer we now have and are much happier for it ... however, the downside is I'm now back into the significantly higher costs of owning and maintaining a dual axle travel trailer vs a simple single axle popup. Sad for me to say because a popup just doesn't work for us but there's little question in my mind that a popup offers FAR greater bang for the buck than does any travel trailer ... as long as you can tolerate the tenting. Regardless of the many reasons you've listed as to why this $1600 more than you were willing to spend on a popup is a show stopper I still believe you're being short sighted in your assessment. That's of course entirely up to you ... I just don't agree. Good luck. :B

[Mike_Up]

SoundGuy wrote:


Hmmmmm, earlier you said - "The Rockwood Freedom 2280 with shower, toilet, Air Conditioner is $11,400 which is way overpriced. I was expecting no more than $9,800 for all of it." So you were willing to go ahead with this popup purchase for $9,800 but not $11,400, a difference of just $1600? Either way you'd still have payments or have to make up for the difference in cash so other than saying $11,400 is more than this popup is worth why is one a show stopper when the other is not?

Because when the price is more than the camper is worth, you don't pay it. $1600 is 16% of the price it should had been. So that's a mark up of $1600.

I had a limit of how much out of pocket I was willing to spend. That overpricing right there was most of it. Now I have to bite the bullet on advertising expenses to sell my camper. And then add the difference of the selling price of the travel travel, opposed to the higher price of the pop up. Then I have to add in taxes which are also higher since the dealer really doesn't want to take in trades. In Indiana, your trade is subtracted from the selling price, then taxed.

So since the dealer didn't really want a trade (before even seeing my camper) and telling me to sell it on my own and offering a ridiculously low ball offer, forced me into additional sales advertising and tax costs mentioned above.

So the 2280 exceeded what I was willing to spend on that model. I expected to pay a bit more for a slide out model but not at the prices that I was given. So after all was said and done. The overall cost was between $4K and $5K out of my pocket which was unacceptable.

And as I stated, I'm looking at the next 6 years. I also don't expect a good resale on them as I would with a travel trailer, especially in our area where pop ups aren't really wanted.

Everyone here has stated how they sold their pop ups to a third owner, after buying used. I have looked used, they're junk here privately and through dealers. Then dealers who seem to have the most units, are way over priced for junk. It's only reasonable to buy new unless you're a sucker.

Overall costs for the travel trailer per year, as of now, are much lower than what I would end up putting out for one of the pop ups with a slide. The slide out models were a better deal than the 2280. If I'm going to get screwed, I would want it not to be as bad and also get more conveniences. The 2280 was off the board at that price, period. The others, while more reasonable, still made no sense financially for less features and more inconvenience in every way.

Older well kept Travel Trailers hold their resale value here much better than pop ups.

[DiskDoctr]

Mike Up wrote:
Find out what's cost effective and go that route.

Canvas is $1000 and AC installed (if there's reinforcement)is ~$775 (Coleman Mach 3). If the box is in great shape and you sell for $3000 you come out with $1200.

Or sell it for ~$1200 as is and explain what the buyer can do, siting pricing for canvas and AC options. With that camper, younger people who do better with heat, may not care about adding AC.

Thanks. I'll give it some thought and then you may see my build thread 😉