Wow Pop Ups are expensive!

[Mike_Up]

Honestly, we don't camp a whole lot anymore with all the kids activities and my work schedule. Since the camper sits most of the time, while the caulking goes bad, I got sick of paying for the labor costs to do all the caulking. I simply have bad knees and a lack of time to do it myself.

Well after looking at several Rockwood pop ups, Freedom and Premier series, I found it cheaper to let the Jay Flight sit and pay the caulking repairs than to get a new Pop Up which have far few maintenance costs.

The Premier 2516G and 2716G were the same cost as the dealers Wildwood Travel Trailer that had the same floorplan as my Jay Flight 26BH. Unbelievable how much manufacturers are asking for tent on wheels. They are just pricing themselves out of a job. None of the other dealers within 3 hours even had a camper I'd consider as either none had an indoor toilet/shower or have any pop ups at all.

Can't believe that these makers are pricing these pop ups out of existence.

[time2roll]

We bought our pop-up used many years ago (2000). Paid $6,500 for a two year old lightly used Coleman. Took it many many places over five years and sold it for $5,500. Seemed like a good value at the time.

[SoundGuy]

SoundGuy wrote:
Not to be critical Mike but it seems to me you're looking just at the short term as in the long run there's just no way a popup won't be far more cost effective than any travel trailer.

Mike Up wrote:
Well the Travel Trailer is paid for. To get a Pop Up, I would have a payment or have to put out about $4K to $5K out of pocket.

The Travel Trailer will be cheaper at least for 6 years when payments are considered. And is much cheaper when out of pocket is considered.

Hmmmmm, earlier you said - "The Rockwood Freedom 2280 with shower, toilet, Air Conditioner is $11,400 which is way overpriced. I was expecting no more than $9,800 for all of it." So you were willing to go ahead with this popup purchase for $9,800 but not $11,400, a difference of just $1600? Either way you'd still have payments or have to make up for the difference in cash so other than saying $11,400 is more than this popup is worth why is one a show stopper when the other is not? :h IMO your much lower operating and maintenance costs for a new popup will easily cover this $1600 difference in a fairly short period of time, even less if you also factor in ongoing maintenance costs for your aging travel trailer should you keep it. Heck, just a new set of tires and brake / bearing service for the TT sometime in the next few years could easily chew up much of that $1600 "savings", not to mention that your travel trailer will be worth even less, perhaps close to nothing, 6 yrs from now. 😞 Your choice obviously but I just don't see your math to justify keeping a travel trailer you rarely use. JMO of course but sometimes it's wise to spend $$$$$ in the short term in order to save $$$$$ over the long term. 😉

[Mike_Up]

DiskDoctr wrote:

Mike Up wrote:
Replace the canvas if it's economical, and sell it.

Or sell it like it is and have the buyer do the replacements.

That's my current dilemma 😉

Find out what's cost effective and go that route.

Canvas is $1000 and AC installed (if there's reinforcement)is ~$775 (Coleman Mach 3). If the box is in great shape and you sell for $3000 you come out with $1200.

Or sell it for ~$1200 as is and explain what the buyer can do, siting pricing for canvas and AC options. With that camper, younger people who do better with heat, may not care about adding AC.

[DiskDoctr]

Mike Up wrote:
Replace the canvas if it's economical, and sell it.

Or sell it like it is and have the buyer do the replacements.

That's my current dilemma 😉

[Mike_Up]

SoundGuy wrote:

Not to be critical Mike but it seems to me you're looking just at the short term as in the long run there's just no way a popup won't be far more cost effective than any travel trailer.

Well the Travel Trailer is paid for. To get a Pop Up, I would have a payment or have to put out about $4K to $5K out of pocket.

The Travel Trailer will be cheaper at least for 6 years when payments are considered. And is much cheaper when out of pocket is considered.

And when resale is considered, used Pop Ups in our area aren't a big seller where Travel Trailers are. Hense why dealers are not selling pop ups anymore.

In 6 or more years, my life will be much different and the kids will be much older. I'll cross that bridge when it comes, but for now camping with the kids and wife, keeping the travel trailer is the smartest move.

Towing fuel prices aren't much of a consideration since we don't go on far trips with the camper.

[rbpru]

When I bought my PUP I kept my tent, when I bought my TT I kept my PUP. Each has its use. As I get older I am drawn to the convenience of the TT.

Still enjoy the camping feel of my PUP. And there are a few times when it is a better choice for the space available.

Obviously when we canoe camp a tent is our only option.

[Mike_Up]

SoundGuy wrote:

Mike Up wrote:
The Rockwood Freedom 2280 with shower, toilet, Air Conditioner is $11,400 which is way overpriced. I was expecting no more than $9,800 for all of it.

the catch being you just need to be able to put up with all the vagaries of a trailer with tenting. 😉

Unfortunately, not at those prices. The wife even said absolutely not at those prices for a tent on wheels.

So the Jay Flight will be with us for a bit longer. 🙂

[SoundGuy]

Mike Up wrote:
The Rockwood Freedom 2280 with shower, toilet, Air Conditioner is $11,400 which is way overpriced. I was expecting no more than $9,800 for all of it.

Not to be critical Mike but it seems to me you're looking just at the short term as in the long run there's just no way a popup won't be far more cost effective than any travel trailer. Heck, I even designed my own inside shower for our Santa Fe, installed my own A/C, camped at least a couple hundred nights and towed it tens of thousands of miles over the course of the 6 years we owned it and after all that still got back half of what I originally paid for it. :B Eventually selling it was only because I got tired of having to still fool around with tenting, otherwise it worked just fine as our home away from home, no matter where we went or in what weather, and certainly our total costs were a fraction of what they've been since owning a variety of travel trailers. Maintenance costs were far less, ongoing ownership costs such as fuel when towing were far less, and I could store it inside my heated workshop. Even if the capital cost for a suitable popup is the same as a small travel trailer you'd still be miles ahead on overall costs with the popup, with the only thing the same probably being the cost to rent a campsite. Based on dollars and cents alone there's just no way a popup isn't a significantly less costly way to camp than with any travel trailer, the catch being you just need to be able to put up with all the vagaries of a trailer with tenting. 😉

[Mike_Up]

DiskDoctr wrote:
Wow, this is such good timing for prices on popups.

We have one that has some canvas issues. I was considering redoing it and counters and such all "new" while at it, but figured without A/C it wouldn't be worth it.

Maybe I'll reconsider...

Related question: Are there folks interested in good popups that need new canvas for a reasonable price?

NOT a selling thread, rather a "Can I still get decent $$ from a camper that needs canvas, or must I get the canvas and do the work prior to selling?"

Cheapest canvas that's quality seems to be from Bear Creek Canvas and a whole camper canvas is right at $1,000.

I wouldn't buy a camper with bad canvas. I'd also put AC in it. Don't know anyone who'd buy a Pop Up without AC.

Replace the canvas if it's economical, and sell it.

Or sell it like it is and have the buyer do the replacements.

[Mike_Up]

jerem0621 wrote:
Mike, you sound like a good candidate to go back to tent camping. That’s what I am doing. I have two high schoolers now and have no time to maintain an RV. A tent can sit in the closet till time to camp. LOL. The REI Kingdom 8 tent looks great!

Pups are expensive for sure...we wanted a new one one but you don’t have to buy the premier package. You can get a basic pup around 8-10k new that will not have all of the fancy amenities but is still pretty nice.

Just an allegory, You are comparing a mid level trim Mercedes compact to a Low trim Level Ford full size car and wondering why the prices are similar...that’s not really a fair comparison.

Thanks!

Jeremiah

I actually thought about getting a 10'X14' Kodiak Canvas Flex-Bow tent but I honestly need AC as I don't do well in the heat, and my 6 year old daughter needs a shower that I can help her with. Wife doesn't much care for camping and absolutely HATES tent camping.

That's why I was considering a pop up again, it has AC and furnace and has a shower/toilet, and a real bed for me.

I considered the Rockwood Freedom 2280 w/o a slide but the slide model was only $400 more and the 2280 was over $1000 more than I feel it should be.

The Rockwood Freedom 2280 with shower, toilet, Air Conditioner is $11,400 which is way overpriced. I was expecting no more than $9,800 for all of it.

I was really considering the Rockwood Freedom 2280 but not at the price the dealer said he had to have.

[jerem0621]

Mike, you sound like a good candidate to go back to tent camping. That’s what I am doing. I have two high schoolers now and have no time to maintain an RV. A tent can sit in the closet till time to camp. LOL. The REI Kingdom 8 tent looks great!

Pups are expensive for sure...we wanted a new one one but you don’t have to buy the premier package. You can get a basic pup around 8-10k new that will not have all of the fancy amenities but is still pretty nice.

Just an allegory, You are comparing a mid level trim Mercedes compact to a Low trim Level Ford full size car and wondering why the prices are similar...that’s not really a fair comparison.

Thanks!

Jeremiah

[Mike_Up]

Lantley wrote:

drsteve wrote:

SoundGuy wrote:
I can't say for anyone else but I'm also not anywhere near as good at applying lap sealant as is a dealer tech who does this every day for a living.

An experienced RV tech can no doubt do many things better that the average guy... but let's be real. How much talent does it actually take to lay down a bead of Dicor?

It's not about talent. It's about the ability to climb up the ladder and walk across the roof. Not everyone can do it.
So they must pay a professional. Yes it should be done at least annually if not semi annually.
If you can't do it yourself, you pay.
I don't change my own oil in any of my cars but it's my choice. I am capable but I don't want to do it. Many take the dsame approach to caulking an RV roof

Yes, I maintain my stuff. While I'm not old, I've had 3 knee surgeries and don't enjoy crawling around. I don't want leaks and my dealer is trustworthy.

Mainly I'm only finding a few spots every year or other year that are around $200 - $300 to repair. Remember hourly rates are $130. And I did get a leak even with caulking but it's fixed now as I caught it early.

This time I had about $1000 in caulking labor hours and materials. The unit is 6 years old so the spots I've never done are getting bad.

And I've only done spot repairs, not recaulked the entire RV every year.

I would never buy an RV from anyone who didn't have yearly or biyearly inspection or caulking receipts. RVs leak, that's a known. If nothing is done, that's neglect and abuse and I wouldn't want that RV.

Also, since crawling isn't involved. I have troubleshot and fixed all of my appliance problems myself. That being the refrigerator, water heater, water pump, and replaced my propane/co detector.

When I had the Pop Ups I did the same and did the caulking myself since everything was easy to reach.

And now that I frequently work 24 hour and 16 hour shifts, repairing the RV isn't my first priority. If I put in less than 80 hours/week, I feel like a slacker. Up keeping my home and the kids activities come first, then the RV if there's any time left.

Thanks everyone.

[DiskDoctr]

Wow, this is such good timing for prices on popups.

We have one that has some canvas issues. I was considering redoing it and counters and such all "new" while at it, but figured without A/C it wouldn't be worth it.

Maybe I'll reconsider...

Related question: Are there folks interested in good popups that need new canvas for a reasonable price?

NOT a selling thread, rather a "Can I still get decent $$ from a camper that needs canvas, or must I get the canvas and do the work prior to selling?"

[Mike_Up]

rbpru wrote:

I am curious why you re-caulk your TT every year. I have never had to do more than check ours in the spring and add a dab once in a while.

Take care

Because my caulk has failed.

I do a seal tech test every other year but did it this time because I had the bathroom skylight start leaking. It was a bad seal underneath that was replaced and caulked again but seal test found several potential leaks.

This year was excessive and caused me to want to rid myself of it. Usually just a few inexpensive repairs but this year was very excessive.

However fixing the potential leaks turned out to be a lot cheaper than downgrading to a Rockwood Premier 2516G that was going to cost $12,875 w/AC but without microwave. Dealer had a Wildwood 29' bunkhouse like my 26BH for ~$13,500.

Doesn't make any sense why a tent on wheels is so much. The material and labor cost to build that Travel Trailer would far exceed the cost of that Pop Up.

Here's my thread I started on the Pop Up Forum.

[SoundGuy]

SoundGuy wrote:
I can't say for anyone else but I'm also not anywhere near as good at applying lap sealant as is a dealer tech who does this every day for a living.

drsteve wrote:
An experienced RV tech can no doubt do many things better that the average guy... but let's be real. How much talent does it actually take to lay down a bead of Dicor?

Lantley wrote:
It's not about talent. It's about the ability to climb up the ladder and walk across the roof. Not everyone can do it.
So they must pay a professional. Yes it should be done at least annually if not semi annually.
If you can't do it yourself, you pay.
I don't change my own oil in any of my cars but it's my choice. I am capable but I don't want to do it. Many take the same approach to caulking an RV roof

If not "talent" then certainly experience helps and when a tech does this every day for a living the result is bound to be far better than what I can do practicing once a season. 😉 Over the years I've been up on a trailer roof countless times but I can't say I like it and as I get older am much less inclined to do so. I've always installed a cover on our trailers for winter storage but a couple of years ago did pay for indoor storage, partly because it meant I wouldn't have to climb up on that darned roof. This winter my trailer spent it's time at my dealer for an eventual frame repair (which has now been completed) so I once again did install the cover - didn't like it but I did it because I prefer to cover than not at all. Next winter? ... I'll be another year older so it's likely I'll return to indoor storage again. If there's any mystery to this it's why I have to defend my dislike for climbing up on that roof ... so stupid. :R