WTH ?

[Bols2DawaLL]

We haven't yet purchased our TT but will be in the next few years , right now it's all about the research . There seems to be lots of discussions regarding folks changing out tires and/or axles and/or springs etc etc on brand new TT's . Is this normal ? Is this an issue prevalent with most new Trailers ? Are there certain frames or axles etc I should avoid at all costs? Thanks

[myredracer]

O gawd, frame quality? Don't get me started... It's shameful what many of the TT manufacturers do.

Before buying, look at the axle rating and load capacity rating of the tires. Some manufacturers load them right up to their ratings. Take 12-13 percent off the GVWR for the tongue weight removed from the axles. (Tongue weight can be up near 15 percent sometimes tho.) You want at least 10-15 percent reserve load capacity in the tires and more is better. In some cases tires are loaded right up and the manufacturer has not accounted for a TT weighing more on one side due to slides, kitchens, etc. Maxed out tires invites blowouts and maxed out axles invites bent axles. Some manufacturers offer optional tires with higher load rating.

Avoid buying a TT that has a frame made from 3 pieces of sheet steel welded together and *look* like like a regular I-beam. They flex a LOT and can cause serious issues including damage to the superstructure like aluminum framing in the photo. We took a TT with the flexible frame to a frame & axle shop with in days from buying it new and they said it was the worst frame they had EVER seen. They said much of the welding was very substandard.

Get a TT that has a higher CCC rating. Some are down around 1500 lbs and some are up around 3000 lbs. Some CCC figures cannot be trusted and actual dry weight can be higher than the factory dry weight figure. Ours is 190 lbs higher than what the sticker says it was when it left the factory. Low CCC can sometimes result in overloading. If we were to travel with one full holding tank, we'd be over the GVWR.

Brakes, brake wiring, bearings, bushings and even the springs can be a problem. Frames & components have a minimal coating of paint and if your TT was delivered in the winter with salt on the road, you can end up with rust everywhere. The enclosed underbellies are mostly there to hide bad workmanship (being facetious but there is some truth to this). Holding tanks can be poorly secured to the frame and on occasion will drop out. "Heat underbelly"? Want your furnace to heat the great outdoors? They just run a duct or two under the frame without a return.

Sometimes the welding on frames is so bad that they break in a major way. The 2nd photo is a forum member's TT and the A-frame broke clear off and he had to get a welder to fix it.

IMO, one big contributing factor is the lack of any regulations for frames & suspensions. Manufacturers like Lippert, who own probably around 95+ percent of the market, can and do build frames however they want without repercussion. If there's a problem, they'll say things like "owner overloaded the trailer" or "it's within specs".

Outdoors RV, Nash & Artic Fox use the same in-house built, off-road certified, heavy duty frame. A few manufacturers like Jayco & Lance use the BAL/Norco "Ultra Frame" or "NGX" frame which has no welding on it and uses a type of rivet instead. If we were to ever buy another TT, I'd be looking at any without a Lippert frame like these.

[OBSPowerstroke]

rbpru wrote:
For those who want something different or a cut above the norm, there are companies for that market also. The egg type shells such as Casita and Bigfoot or the tube like Air Stream or the more conventional models such as Lance are often mentioned as being a cut above the rest. This is also reflected in their price.

There are also the modifications made by those who boone dock, winter or desert camp and other such unique camping styles.

I agree that Lance is one of the better manufacturers out there. In fact, their new 2375 is probably my favorite new trailer floor plan. I've toured this floor plan twice in person, but I can't see ever buying a 28 foot total length trailer with only 1,600 pounds cargo capacity and 14" wheels and tires. Fill the fresh water tank and you're already down to a max of 1,200 pounds of cargo before taking into account any options, which isn't all that much. The low profile of the Lances also makes wheel and tire upgrades challenging, and then you're still stuck with lower capacity axles.

If you're into just RV and State parks with full hookups, I'd say the Lances can't be beat, but if you plan on going offroad or boon docking at all, Northwood or Outdoors RV are the two manufacturers I'd be looking at.

[spike99]

Bols2DawaLL,

If one buys a brand new trailer and immediately installs their own upgrades themselves, most dealers will Void factory warranty. Especially when it comes to suspension area upgrades. Try asking your RV dealer if they will install and "provide warranty" on +1 leaf spring pack upgrades, or +1 tire size or etc. etc. Thus, why I wait to AFTER their factory warranty time period has expired.

IMO, there's some things that should be made new factory build code - like much better STAR brake wiring. But, that's a topic for a different post.

From the RV Dealer's view, one doesn't NEED to upgrade suspension items on brand new RV. So, it isn't a concern to them. After all, their product (RV Trailer) meets minimum build specs. Thus, why I "make better myself" AFTER their warranty time period has expired.

This works for me... Especially in our current unfair world....

[BizmarksMom]

If you plan to drive good roads with empty tanks to an RV campground, you're probably fine with the trailer as it comes.

If you plan to hit dirt roads to un-improved campsites with a full water tank, you will probably have to beef up the suspension.

If you will be boondocking, you're going to need ground clearance. But, at that point, your average travel trailer will pushed way past the use it was designed for. You will either be spending money to beef the trailer up, or actively shopping for a heavier trailer designed for off road use.

[coolmom42]

Where a lot of people seem to get into problems is when the trailer has little cargo capacity---meaning the empty weight is close to the axle capacity. Then when you put anything in it, the axles are overloaded. So look for a trailer with a much larger cargo capacity than you think you might need, which translates to a dry weight much lower than the GVWR.

Most trailer tires are not the best quality, although a few brands are OK. If you keep them properly inflated, you should get a couple of years service out of the ones that come on the trailer. At that point, you want to go with a better trailer tire brand, or move to a light truck tire, and possibly a bigger rim.

Bushings wear out, that's the nature of a trailer axle.

Some people do an axle flip, to get more ground clearance.

[ScottG]

I dont think there's nearly the problem that there was a few years ago.
My advice is to check the CCC of a new trailer very closely. I want to see a ton or more. This is one of the reasons I bought our current TT, it had nearly two tons of CCC (3900#).

[Bols2DawaLL]

spike99 wrote:
IMO, buying a trailer is much like people with their vehicles.

Some folks buy it, never wax it, never "make it better" and only reactively fix an item - when it does breaks. Like a BIC lighter, they use it until it costs too much to fix, then get rid of it (re: throw it away, sell or trade it in for another). Especially since Trailer ownership is between 3-5 years.

Others buy a vehicle, add little things to it (to make it better than factory) and in the end, dramatically reduce the risk of things reactively breaking. Especially while on the road - far away from home.

For me, I investigate each of my trailers and where needed, +1 its tires, +1 its leaf spring packs, replace factory linear brake wiring with much better STAR brake wiring AFTER its factory warranty is over. I will also install better power fan in the bathroom, install roof vents, install better mattress, LED tail light upgrades, electrical Surge protection, etc. etc. Make it better for longer life and to reduce the risk of "reactive" breakage. And, upgrade the things that make its usage better for me (to my liking) as well.

Remember that RV factories only build to "minimum" SPECs. Above minimum means more profits out of their pocket (which is a bad thing from their view). If you want "better than factory" and plan to keep your trailer a long time, then some "minimum spec" items must be upgraded yourself. Sad to say but true....

Some good valid points but I wouldn't buy a car and then expect I'd need to replace all the tires , brake assemblies , shocks , springs etc. Pretty sad situation . Too bad they don't have an option when ordering "any" trailer to upgrade to a heavier duty running gear package . Sounds like it would add a couple of grand to the price but I know I'd pay it .

[goducks10]

Thee's a reason they only put on average a 1 year warranty on them. 2 at most. And a 2 year warranty is no guarantee that it's built better. As far as the tires, frame and suspension goes. Look for bracing above the spring hangers. If you don't see any, run. If you can't pronounce the name of the tires, have them changed out to Goodyear Marathons, Maxxis, or Carlisle. As for the springs, look at the cargo carrying capacity. It should be as high as you can get. Stay away from trailers that have 900-1500lbs of CCC. By the time you load up with gear and maybe water you'll be pushing the limits.
For the most part everything out of Indiana is built the same way with a few variables that don't make one better, just different.
If you want something a little better then look at one of the smaller brands. Lance, Northwood, Outdoors RV, Airstream, Oliver or Bigfoot to name a few. All those have gone the extra mile to make something that will stand apart from the rest. Will they all have no problems? No, they all have problems. But having a solid foundation takes away one area that is susceptible to problems.
And you do get what you pay for.

[rbpru]

The travel trailer you buy (TT) is designed for the average family doing the average family outing. Most are designed for use at campgrounds (CG) with electricity and some degree of water and sewage dump. Many full hook-up CGs have all three, most have at least electricity.

The TT manufacturers design and build for a very price competitive market. They build fast with parts that will do the job. It is safe to say they do not over design their products but the industry sells over 400,000 TTs and fifth wheels (5ver) each year. The vast majority serve their owners well.

As for frames, tires, materials, appliances etc. they are universal throughout the industry. Almost all TTs in a given price range will have the same raw materials suppliers. There is no magic bullet or manufacturer.

For those who want something different or a cut above the norm, there are companies for that market also. The egg type shells such as Casita and Bigfoot or the tube like Air Stream or the more conventional models such as Lance are often mentioned as being a cut above the rest. This is also reflected in their price.

There are also the modifications made by those who boone dock, winter or desert camp and other such unique camping styles.

My suggestion is to select the floor plan with a loaded tongue weight your tow vehicle (TV) can handle, then rent one for a week or so of travel. You will learn a lot very quickly.

[spike99]

IMO, buying a trailer is much like people with their vehicles.

Some folks buy it, never wax it, never "make it better" and only reactively fix an item - when it does breaks. Like a BIC lighter, they use it until it costs too much to fix, then get rid of it (re: throw it away, sell or trade it in for another). Especially since Trailer ownership is between 3-5 years.

Others buy a vehicle, add little things to it (to make it better than factory) and in the end, dramatically reduce the risk of things reactively breaking. Especially while on the road - far away from home.

For me, I investigate each of my trailers and where needed, +1 its tires, +1 its leaf spring packs, replace factory linear brake wiring with much better STAR brake wiring AFTER its factory warranty is over. I will also install better power fan in the bathroom, install roof vents, install better mattress, LED tail light upgrades, electrical Surge protection, etc. etc. Make it better for longer life and to reduce the risk of "reactive" breakage. And, upgrade the things that make its usage better for me (to my liking) as well.

Remember that RV factories only build to "minimum" SPECs. Above minimum means more profits out of their pocket (which is a bad thing from their view). If you want "better than factory" and plan to keep your trailer a long time, then some "minimum spec" items must be upgraded yourself. Sad to say but true....

[shelbyfv]

Lynnmor wrote:

The "I never had a problem" crowd are living at the edge.

Or maybe they bought the right trailer to start with?

[SoundGuy]

Bols2DawaLL wrote:
There seems to be lots of discussions regarding folks changing out tires and/or axles and/or springs etc etc on brand new TT's . Is this normal ?

Not unheard of but also not common IMO, the trick I think being to pick a trailer that has considerable CCC, meaning a trailer with a UVW at least a ton or more under it's GVWR even if you never could conceive of loading so much junk into the trailer that it's GVW loaded & ready to camp would ever come anywhere near it's GVWR. That's been the case with the last two trailers I've owned and I've never had an issue with running gear with either one. 🙂

Nylon equalizer bushings wearing out quite quickly is just the nature of the beast and is common ... if it's an issue that concerns you just swap them out for a wet bolt kit with brass bushings that will last considerably longer. I did this with my previous KZ Spree, haven't yet bothered with my current Coachmen but now that it's 4 yrs old likely will the next time I have it in the shop as it's a pretty good investment for anyone who intends to keep their trailer long term. 🙂

[Lynnmor]

I have replaced absolutely everything below the frame. These things are basically junk.

Tires - because I don't want cheap Chinese junk.

Wheels - to fit real tires.

Brakes - because the drum armatures were severely worn.

Axles - because they were bent from new.

Springs - because they broke.

Spring bushings - because the cheap nylon was spent.

Shackles, bolts, nuts - because they were failing.

Welded frame - because it was cracked in 4 places.

Stabilizer jacks - because they were assembled wrong.

Look at Northwood Mfg. for a company that makes a good frame and uses suspension parts that are not at the very minimum that is legal. Look at the NCC (net carrying capacity) for similar size trailers.

The "I never had a problem" crowd are living at the edge.

[K_Charles]

You still do get what you pay for. Don't buy a TT that is almost overloaded be for you put anything in it. You can still get a trailer with good tires and axles.

[mbutts]

I owned a pop-up for 3 years, a hybrid for 5, and a large travel trailer for 5 more. I did not need add'l ground clearance so no axle swap for me. I never had trouble with tires (kept 'em inflated and I checked for wear). I did install shocks on the last trailer due to our awesome roads.

I don't believe that you automatically need to swap out the entire suspension. Use it for a while and see if it's needed.