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Re: Electrical: DC AC Conversions - Efficiency
Thanks pianotuna. Which Yammy Gen do you have and are you happy with it...what are the pros and cons based on your experience with it. It's Tough to decide between Yamaha & Honda. Since I'm getting a relatively small generator where every 100 watts counts, I like what Yamaha has done, breaching the 2000W and 3000W gap with a 2400W generator that is still at a reasonable weight for regular lifting of unit in and out of a truck bed.659Views0likes0CommentsRe: Electrical: DC AC Conversions - Efficiency
Thanks Mrwizard for answering the questions related to differences in generator output and charger input and the practical application in the field...good stuff! The puzzle is coming together. Question: When the Charger transitions from the fast charging rate to the next stage, let's say for example it goes to 1/2 the fast charging rate, will the Generator sense that load reduction and throttle down also to Eco Mode as long as that output is able to satisfy what the charger is asking for? thanks Tim658Views0likes0CommentsRe: Electrical: DC AC Conversions - Efficiency
BFL13 – thanks for confirming ADC is Amps DC. I assumed it was but I don’t like assuming anything when it concerns electricity. A google search, prior to asking could not answer this. I am obviously a novice re: electricity but I do have down W=A*V and it’s other two variations and it makes sense to me. The nomenclature, abbreviations, specification data on equipment and how/or where it applies in all the calculations is where I get tripped up or where I don't feel sure I am interpreting everything correctly. Thus all my weird and simplistic questions. I will be investing a lot of money in a complete system so I would like to try if possible to actually understand at the most basic level (I don’t need to understand how VA is different than Watts) what equipment to buy and compatibility between all components in the system based on each item’s input and output capabilities. I understand if you are tired of answering my question but thanks for all you have offered thus far. I’ll keep asking until no one answers anymore but I think I am pretty close to having just about everything answered. Thanks again to you and everyone else on RV.NET. Next batch of questions: Are any of these statements false? RE: Charger – 125 Amps DC: = the charger is capable of charging the battery at a rate of 125 Amps DC RE: Charger – Input current 18 Amps AC: = the charger can accept up to 18 Amps AC (from generator or shore power). In the case of the Honda EU2000i generator that outputs 120V/13.3A/1596W; it is 4.7 Amps short of using the charger’s 18 Amp capacity. If the charger cannot automatically detect the generators output limitations, the user should dial down the Input Current demand to 13.3 Amps or below to insure the generator is not over taxed running continuously for hours near it’s rated capacity. Theoretically, with 13.3 AC amps entering the Charger, it will output approximately 133 Amp DC at 12V to the battery bank. In practice output Voltage may be a little higher, for example 14.2 and Amps 112. The 112 will be further reduced due to the 87% efficiency of the charger and the >.95 Power Factor. Specifications for Charger: 125 ADC Continuous Output at 25 degrees Centigrade 87% Charger Efficiency >.95 Power Factor 18 Amps Input current at rated output (AC Amps)658Views0likes0CommentsRe: Electrical: DC AC Conversions - Efficiency
Side Note to BFL13 - once again posted before I saw your most recent post. I would prefer to use the EU3000is but I will need my generator to be mobile. I won't have compartments in my small trailer to put in any size generator. It will be in the bed of the tow vehicle. The EU3000is is 130 lbs dry so that could be dangerous for me to repeatedly load and unload into the truck bed. The EU2000is is 45 lbs dry, easy to move and if I need more power, I can get the companion EU2000 to run parallel and double my watts or AV's from 1600 to 3200 bringing it up to the performance level of the EU3000is at about the same price. The big reason to me for getting the EU3000is (if weight was not a factor) is the remote control start accessory available for $360 from the link below...that would be sweet to have. The install looks a bit time consuming but relatively easy per the very well made install video. More comments/questions coming on your 8:00pm entry but I don't want to stack up too many questions before I get answers. I did that before and decided I need to ask one or two questions and then wait until I have solid answers that I understand before moving on to the next thing. I really like the way member "Westend" replied to one of my entries above. If you guys can do that too (copy my original and then comment after each question) that would be great. The examples using real number scenarios to back up the theory just stated helps even more. I can't always understand the answers completely but between the text description of the answer and the numbers/equations of the answers, I can usually get it. I then re-state what I think I understand for confirmation. thanks Tim http://www.pinellaspowerproducts.com/view/HEUREMOTEKIT3/208Views0likes0CommentsRe: Electrical: DC AC Conversions - Efficiency
Thanks for taking the time to edumacate me. BFL13, I sent this before seeing your last post so all references to you below relate to your previous post. See specs for Charger at bottom. OK roadrunner and BFL13, that helps. I did not realize the "charge" going into the battery was at 12 volts. I understood the charge coming out of the battery was at 12Vin order to (A.) feed 12V outlets/receptacles and (B). feed the inverter to go through the conversion to AC to feed the devices/equipment needing AC. So you are saying the Honda Inverter generator is delivering 120V/13.3A/1596W to the charger which then changes that current to 12V, same wattage 1596 so the Amps convert to 112.4 per W=V*A and that is then delivered to the battery bank. Thats is great news, much better to add amp hours at a rate of 112/hr than 13.3/hr. I understand the power loss due to charger efficiency (87%) per spec= 97.7 Amp. Does the Power Factor correction of .95 then bring it down to 92.8 Amps being sent to the battery resulting in 92.8 Amp hours being added per hour of charging at this rate? Roadrunner -I thought Lithium batteries took a big charge quickly. What is the specification I should look for on a battery that gives me some indication as to how much current a battery CAN draw in a hour. (I am aware that charge rate and duration is programed or tailored per battery mfg and type. I knew that was part of the function of the controller between the solar panels and the battery, does the charger that receives the AC from the Generator also get programed for a charge rate and duration cycle?) I had heard Lithium batteries charge up fast (relative to other chemistries) up to 80% of full and then the last 20% of charge is at a slower rate but that it does not hurt the Lithium battery at all to quick charge up to 80% and then quit and use the battery back down to 20% before charging again. Apparently Lead Acid NEED to be fully charged each cycle to keep them healthy. BFL13 - in your last sentence above, are you saying with a PF corrected Charger, the Honda Generator could possibly run on Eco mode and still deliver enough energy to the Charger for it to deliver 12V- 92.8 Amps to the battery bank? ...thus not needed to run at normal full power...1596 watts? The Spec sheet for the Charger says the following: 125 ADC Continuous Output at 25 degrees Centigrade 87% Charger Efficiency >.95 Power Factor 18 Input current at rated output (AC Amps)209Views0likes0CommentsRe: Electrical: DC AC Conversions - Efficiency
Battery Charging Rate Question: If the Magnum Inverter spec says: Input current at rated Output is 18 Amps. (Does this mean it can only push out or charge the battery at a maximum of 18 Amps (assuming the power source is also at least 18 Amps)? Is an 18 Amp Input, operating for one hour roughly equivalent to adding 18 Amp hours to the battery charge? Generator Honda EU2000i Generator spec is: AC output rated 1600 Watts 13.3A (max 2000 Watts 16.6A) Are those the specs, listed above that I need to figure out the charging rate? Does the 13.3 AC output of the generator mean it will roughly add 13.3 Amp Hours to the battery if the generator runs for one hour. In this setup, will the generator be the limiting factor, only able to put out 13.3 Amps continuously. If the Inverter spec: Input Current at rated output = 18 Amps is the incorrect spec for the calculations I am looking for, the spec sheet can be found at the link below. If any one knows the correct spec and can find it on this sheet, please pass on that info. https://pdf.wholesalesolar.com/inverter%20pdf%20folder/MSH4024M-Specifications.pdf?_ga=2.188029736.1232624645.1505241136-2016977354.1505241136208Views0likes0CommentsRe: Electrical: DC AC Conversions - Efficiency
thanks for the comments theOldwizard1 "Check into getting a "soft start" for the A/C." Yes, soft start is a good idea! BFL13 - another good idea, stow extra batteries in tow vehicle. My batteries will be inside trailer so might be a hassle to "jump" them. They are so dang heavy I don't see myself moving them around. Would have to create a door on exterior of trailer to access the batteries. I think my biggest problem will be not having enough roof real estate for the solar panels. But this "plan" is still about 2 years out in the future so maybe there will be more compact options for solar panels then. Piano tuna -yes, by passing the inverter for all 12v needs is the most efficient. Another question: are the 3-way refrigerators, when used in the 12v mode, way less efficient (needs more watts to run) then the newer compressor refrigerators of equal size? I had heard that was the case but it was not quantified. If yes, More efficient by 10%, 50% or ?? anyone know?208Views0likes0CommentsRe: Electrical: DC AC Conversions - Efficiency
Thanks TimetoRoll and Bigg Al, My application is a Mobile 20 foot travel trailer that I will travel & l live in full time. I would like to run everything on battery, re-charged by solar Photo Voltaic cells. I will have a generator (Honda EU2000i) for back up. I will have a fixed, non-expandable physical space for the battery bank in the trailer. The wire run between battery bank and 3000 watt inverter will be less than a foot long and wires from solar panels to the battery will be relatively short also, but the longest less than 15 feet long. 1. Are these wiring lengths going to be helped significantly regarding resistance with the 24V system? I think I prefer the simplicity of a 12V battery bank for charging/operating the devices I have that can be plugged in to my 12 volt receptacles, and by-passing the inverter which uses power and produces heat. 2. I will run a 5K BTU window unit air conditioner that will have a start up surge of about 200 Amps (12 volt), will run with compressor on using about 40 Amps (12 volt). With 600 Amp hours of Lithium, 80% useable = 480 Amp Hours, I should be able to safely run the small Air conditioner for 8 hours. Will running approximately 500 watts continually for 8 hours through the Inverter be “hard” on it, shorten it’s life, increase energy consumption as it heats up.? Do I need to worry about any of this or is it only a concern when the constant load is much closer to the Inverters regular capacity. In my case if I had a high quality 3K Watt Inverter (3500 surge for 5 seconds) could I run it continuously at a 2000 or 2500 watt load for 8 hours without it skipping a beat or shortening it’s lifespan? 3. Recharging the 600 Amp hour battery pack. The Inverter/Charger combo unit says in it’s shortened spec sheet: Charger-125AC Efficiency – 88%. I’m guessing the efficiency relates to the Inverter and means for each 100 units of Battery power it draws it only converts 88 equivalent units to the device being powered…is that correct? What does the 125AC mean regarding the Charger? Does it mean it can pump in 125 Amp hours back into the battery each hour assuming the power supply can keep up with that? If not what does it mean 125AC. 4. As related to #3 above, if I am using a small Honda EU200i generator to recharge the battery bank (assume no PV solar panels working) and no draw on the battery bank, and the Amp hours on the battery has been drained down to 20% or 120 Amp Hrs, roughly how long will it take to charge the battery bank back up to 600 Amp Hours or what is the hourly rate of recharge in Amp Hours. I’m not sure what the relevant numbers are on the Honda spec sheet that relates to recharging a battery but one of these must be it. AC output – 120V 2000W max. (16.7A) 1600W rated (13.3A). and DC Output – 12V 96W (8A) and Receptacles 20A, 125V Duplex 5. Lastly, please confirm if this recharge calculation is correct for Solar Panels. A clean, properly angled, 100 watt panel, in 70 degree weather will be about 80% efficient during the peak hours equaling 80 watt charging rate per hour which equals 80W / 12V = 6.6 charging Amps per hour or 10 hours of full sun to put in 66 Amp hours into the battery bank. Thanks to anyone who has stayed with me and is willing to answer some or all of my questions. Tim186Views0likes0Comments
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