BigFly10
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Re: Arrow vs. 3P: which one is better at distributing weight?
rangerbait wrote: mbutts wrote: Sean of PP is absolutely unparalleled in customer service and support, too. That's one of the reasons I decided to go with the 3P...Sean answered my call on a Sunday evening, and has been super quick to respond to emails. My personal experience with Sean is that he was quick to respond to my emails and questions.........until I had actually purchased the hitch and then communications went silent. I had some questions and issues that I was looking for help with shortly after installing and first using my 3P. I sent several emails and left Sean a voicemail - all went unanswered. I know a lot of folks rave about the customer service from Sean, but my experience was not good.353Views0likes0CommentsRe: Another inverter/solar grounding question for the experts
Well folks, I think I now have the problem "fixed". As per 3 tons suggestion, I tied in for the shore power supply to the ATS PRIOR to the main panel. This did not completely fix the problem but seemed to reduce the frequency of the GFI trips from about 20% to about 10%. I then "tuned" the system with an extra 25 feet of cable on the power feed line to the microwave outlet. After these two changes, I tried the microwave approximately 35 times with no GFI trips. The problem may not be 100% fixed but this is good enough for me. I don't really understand it but now that I think about it I have had the GFCI on my house trip on several occasions for reasons I don't understand either. Perhaps, as suggested, the removal of the "circular currents" from the main panel connection in addition to the capacitance from the longer cable creating a "smoothing" effect on the system was enough to make the GFI happy. Thanks very much to those that provided assistance and hung with me throughout this thread. This site is amazing. Ryan529Views0likes0CommentsRe: Another inverter/solar grounding question for the experts
pianotuna wrote: Hi, Seeing as the GFI is part of the inverter changing to another would be--hard. I've occasional had my inverter fail over when attempting to run the microwave. The work around for me was to place a small load on the inverter to "wake it up". The fridge works well for this at 300 watts. It is interesting you say this because, as mentioned in my testing, when I run my fridge in the rear of the TT before the microwave, it doesn't trip the GFI. I usually don't run this fridge off the inverter though and I would prefer not to turn it on each time I want to run the microwave.530Views0likes0CommentsRe: Another inverter/solar grounding question for the experts
MEXICOWANDERER wrote: "Actually, Ground Fault is correct terminology. It means that there is a fault to TO ground, ie a fault between one of the current carrying wires and ground, allowing some current to flow directly to ground rather than through the neutral." GCFI's are S-E-N-S-I-T-I-V-E If more than a PREDETERMINED amount of current chooses to go to earth rather than negative it will fault the device. It absolutely does not have to be even close to 1/100th the amount of current going to neutral. This is a THRESHOLD grade problem and if you allow it to it will drive you nuts - for no reason IMHO. A different BRAND of GCFI can cure this problem or "tuning" the feeder circuit like you are doing. Thank you. It is driving me nuts. I will continue trying to "tune" the system. Since it doesn't trip with the extension cord I may just simply "extend" the cable supplying the microwave outlet and see if that fixes the problem. I may also try replacing the outlet at the microwave with something different and see it that helps too. I will inspect the wiring in the ATS to confirm it looks okay too, but I am starting to seriously doubt that is where the problem is.531Views0likes0CommentsRe: Another inverter/solar grounding question for the experts
shooted wrote: Is there no way of distinguishing between a ground fault or overload condition on this inverter? An overload condition is starting to make more sense than a ground fault condition Edit I now see the inverter has a standard gfci output, which when trips should easily be distinguishable from O/L condition. On a different note, the inverter is limited to 15 amps, not 20 from my reading of the manual. At this point I would have to agree with Mexs take on this. 1800W continuous or up to 3000W surge, but the GFCI outlet is still a 20amp outlet. Interestingly, whenever it trips, it is IMMEDIATELY upon starting the microwave. As you mention, the GFCI trip is easily distinguishable from an overload - I am confident this is not an overload condtion.529Views0likes0CommentsRe: Another inverter/solar grounding question for the experts
3 tons wrote: Upon re-read, "The other cable to the ATS comes from a 30-amp breaker in the main breaker panel. At the main breaker panel, the cable going to the ATS has positive terminated on the breaker outlet, neutral on the neutral bar, and ground on the ground bar." Since your ATS switch receives it's A/C input from the main panel, your problem may be one of competing 'circular currents' causing the sensitive inverter GFI outlet to trip. Try powering the ATS from ahead of the main panel (where shore power first enters coach), not after (then divide entrance (in parallel) to main panel & ATS), and you should see a difference, problem corrected... Best Regards, 3 tons I seriously considered wiring the system as you suggest when I set it up, however, I was concerned about how to limit the incoming current to the allowable 30 amps. If I tied off before the main breaker, then I could potentially be supplying up to 30 amps to the main breaker in addition to whatever the maximum is that could also be going to the ATS or sub-panel. It means that I would have to install an additional current limiting device upstream of where my parallel branch starts. To me it seemed easier just to use one of the empty slots in the main panel and then supply the sub-panel from the main panel. Regardless, what you say makes sense and I may end up going this route if nothing else solves the problem. Thank you for the suggestion.529Views0likes0CommentsRe: Another inverter/solar grounding question for the experts
john&bet wrote: One point that none have touched on is that you may be overloading your gfi. Is it a 20amp gfi or a 15 amp? There was a time that the school of thought was not to plug a microwave into a gfi even in your home. Not sure if that still holds true. I wonder why your inverter even has GFI output on it for your application? It is a 20 amp GFI so I don't think it is overloading the GFI. No idea why the inverter would have come with a GFI on its output (I sure wish it didn't) - the instructions clearly state that it is to be mounted in a dry area indoors.183Views0likes0CommentsRe: Another inverter/solar grounding question for the experts
westend wrote: I'm betting that your ground wire for the DC system is not up to the task. Using an 8 AWG ground,with 4 batteries and an inverter trying to pull +1500 watts, the inverter is seeing a low voltage condition. Your use of an extension cord may be just enough to allow some capacitance to overcome the inverter's bad feelings about the situation. The frame ground from the inverter is just as MrWizard has stated, a protection and interference device, not part of the power profile. The frame ground and the DC negatives are separated in my system. I apologize if I made it sound as though they are connected together - they are not. I have the frame ground for a few pieces of equipment (solar panel, inverter, charge controller) connected together with #8 cable, but they are totally separate from the power system. The DC negative is actually a 2/0 cable, not a #8 cable. This is not a low voltage situation. The trimetric shows that the 4 batteries can easily maintain voltage above 12.0V with the microwave running and the inverter does not show a fault when the trip occurs (it would on a low voltage).183Views0likes0CommentsRe: Another inverter/solar grounding question for the experts
shooted wrote: Can you provide a wiring diagram of your installation? It appears to be a problem isolated to the sub panel or ATS. Edit, on second thought, the problem is probably at the ATS, or between the ATS and inverter. I would verify wiring at the ATS paying special attention to proper/correct connection from the inverter. I suspect a wire assembly defect between ATS and inverter. Agreed, my thoughts too were that the problem must be at the ATS. However, after more testing tonight now I am really stumped. - Ran an extension cord from the inverter directly to the microwave and plugged the microwave into the extension cord. Everything worked perfect, no GFI trips. - Ran an extension cord from the microwave to a different outlet in the trailer powered from inverter. It worked perfect again, no GFI trips. - Now, here is the real mystery. Ran an extension cord from the SAME outlet the microwave was plugged into and then plugged the microwave into the extension cord. Effectively, all I have done is make the microwave power cord longer. CANNOT trip the GFI. I must have tried this 30-40 times because I couldn't believe it. However, plug the microwave into the same outlet without the extension cord and it will trip 1 out of 5. Any thoughts? I am thinking I may try wiring in a different outlet or just extending the cable to the outlet and see if that fixes it, but I really don't understand what is going on.183Views0likes0CommentsRe: Another inverter/solar grounding question for the experts
Just thought I would post an update on this problem that I still have not resolved...... - My OP says that the microwave trips the inverter GFCI about 50% of the time. This is not true - it is actually more like about 20% of the time, 80% of the time it works fine. - I tried disconnecting the inverter ground cable AND connecting the inverter ground cable directly to the trailer frame. No change - still trip the GFCI about 20% of the time. - I opened the A/C breaker for the converter and plugged the trailer shore power cord directly into the inverter. Interestingly, this works great. I can run the microwave over and over again without tripping the inverter GFCI. - I started to think that maybe it was the male plug that I built myself that plugs into the inverter for the cable that runs to the transfer switch, so I removed it and tried a different plug but that did not help. - I have a 120V fridge in the back of my TT that plugs into an outlet. I turned this fridge on (pulls about 6-7 amps from my batteries) and tried the microwave with the fridge running. The GFCI would not trip. It would seem that with another A/C load on the inverter in addition to the microwave, it somehow helps the issue. It may also be noteworthy to mention that IF the GFCI is going to trip, it will do so IMMEDIATELY when I hit the start button on the microwave. As long as the microwave starts, it will run to completion without tripping. I am going to check the wiring inside my transfer switch to see if there could be some problem in there. I am also going to try plugging my microwave into a different outlet to see if that has any affect. However, if neither of these straws give me any new information, then I have to say that I am completely baffled........183Views0likes0Comments
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