jmramiller
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Re: Actual federal weight law rules, some questions and answers
JIMNLIN wrote: jmramiller wrote: Notice the word "may". It does not say "must" or "can not" anywhere in the regs you qouted. When I registered my private truck I asked how much weight I could register for and the answer was as much as I am willing to pay for - period. If you can register your truck above the "Fed Label" (which they allowed in my case and have allowed as a practice for many years) then 10 Ton is wrong. 10 Ton did not say you "may" have to provide documentation proving the weight you are requesting does not exceed the Fed label. What he did say was "it can only be registered for it's Fed label". If he is referring to the sticker on the inside of the door then he is wrong. The fact is Texas will allow you to register above that number or below it for that matter. As far as the "Fed Label" goes - it states on the sticker that the listed weights are valid only for the truck as it was shipped from the maker. The very first mod done to the truck makes the sticker obsolete. In my case the "label" on my truck reflects a SRW configuration. My truck is no longer a SRW truck. The Sticker on my truck no longer in any way reflects (not that is ever did) my trucks capabilities. Again you would like us to believe that every professional expert on this forum is wrong and you alone are correct. You must really love that fantasy world you live in. My father always told me that only an idiot argues with an idiot. I believe by his definition continuing this dialoge would make me an idiot. according to TX 502.055 registering code the department may require the applicant one of four criteria. Number 3 "the gross weight rating of the vehicle which is the trucks door tag GVWR. As far as the the fed label goes only a certified vehicle alterer can legally chage the numbers on the label per NHTSA rules. Also adding bigger tires wheels according to NHTSA regs does not qualify as a altered vehicle or will it change. NHTSA home page has a FAQ on altered vehicles/certified vehicle alterers or modifiers and the vehicles GVWR/GAWR. Again the word "may". You are missing the point. I have in my hand a copy of my registration on which the registered weight exceeds the numbers on the door tag. Simply put the only thing that Texas cares about is that you pay for the weight that you want to put on your registration. Now if you want to claim that I just got one by them, I can put my hands on a dozen registrations done exactly like mine without leaving my 3 street subdivision. As far as the modifications go - as long as my truck passes the Texas safety inspection (which it has) I can legally tow up to the amount I am registered for (assuming I am not exceeding 20K per axle or the combined tire rating on any single axle) regardless of what any manufacturers tag says. A large tire shop 2 miles down the road has been doing the exact same modication to his company trucks for over 20 years and he is a state certified safety inspector. Umm, think I'll take his opinion over yours everyday of the week and twice on Sunday. So again I stand by my statement that 10 Ton is wrong. My registration alone proves it. I will gladly respond to your next post that provides a link to a Texas code that states that registered weight "can not" or "must not" exceed door tag numbers. Until then do us both a favor and don't waste your/my time.604Views0likes0CommentsRe: Actual federal weight law rules, some questions and answers
JIMNLIN wrote: (quote=jmramiller) A direct quote from 10 ton's post " In the case of a private use pickup, it can only be registered for it's Fed label". This is not the only time he contridicts himself in the post. He also states that an insurance claim can be denied for being "overweight" which is absolutely incorrect. ====================================================================== Texas 502 registration regs (quote)Sec. 502.055. DETERMINATION OF WEIGHT. (a) The weight, net weight, or gross weight of a vehicle, as determined by the department, is the correct weight for registration purposes, regardless of any other purported weight of the vehicle. (b) The department may require an applicant for registration under this chapter to provide the department with evidence of: (1) the manufacturer's rated carrying capacity for the vehicle; (2) the nominal tonnage rating of the vehicle; (3) the gross weight rating of the vehicle; or (4) any combination of information described in Subdivisions (1)-(3). Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995. Amended by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 625, Sec. 3, eff. Sept. 1, 1997. (/quote) 10 ton was correct just as he was about buying more weight for commercial use and private pickup. looks like you need some input from casper or some one that is familiar with your own state of TX registration regs as your knowledge is .... zero. If you knew anything about "commercial insurance" you would know that a violation of FMCSRs can and will lead to insurance dening coverage in case of a accident involving overweight issues. Like I told wadcutter if you want to trash talk I'll respond in kind. Your choice. Your still blowing smoke trying to discreadit 10 tons comments and ingnoring the fed reg I posted about "missing GVWR placard". The 390.5 reg just proves the legality of the door tag which is what this thread is about. Fed regs regarding door tag and how your/my state enforces those regs for a combined combo would be a better thread topic as too many are clueless about their owns state enforcement of those fed regs involving door tag issues and a combined combo. Also some, as you and others think, that my state enforces door tag as your state. Not so. I certainly wouldn't take someone claiming to be a LEO on a RV web advice over what your own state LEO. The door tag GVWR in my state is used for commercial combined plates above 26k and axle capacity not covered in our max axle loads allowed/bridge law. Door tag GVWR is not used on the non commercial side in OK, which includes RVs, for a combined combo. In fact their is no gvwr on a oklahoma registration unless its for commercial purposes. Door tag GAWRs/tire caps apply in my state for commercial combined combo. They also apply for non commercial combined combo which include RVs. Notice the word "may". It does not say "must" or "can not" anywhere in the regs you qouted. When I registered my private truck I asked how much weight I could register for and the answer was as much as I am willing to pay for - period. If you can register your truck above the "Fed Label" (which they allowed in my case and have allowed as a practice for many years) then 10 Ton is wrong. 10 Ton did not say you "may" have to provide documentation proving the weight you are requesting does not exceed the Fed label. What he did say was "it can only be registered for it's Fed label". If he is referring to the sticker on the inside of the door then he is wrong. The fact is Texas will allow you to register above that number or below it for that matter. As far as the "Fed Label" goes - it states on the sticker that the listed weights are valid only for the truck as it was shipped from the maker. The very first mod done to the truck makes the sticker obsolete. In my case the "label" on my truck reflects a SRW configuration. My truck is no longer a SRW truck. The Sticker on my truck no longer in any way reflects (not that is ever did) my trucks capabilities. Again you would like us to believe that every professional expert on this forum is wrong and you alone are correct. You must really love that fantasy world you live in. My father always told me that only an idiot argues with an idiot. I believe by his definition continuing this dialoge would make me an idiot.783Views0likes0CommentsRe: Actual federal weight law rules, some questions and answers
JIMNLIN wrote: jmramiller wrote: I don't know what 10 ton knows but I can tell you what he does not know. He claims that in Texas you can only register a private truck up to the weight on the "Fed Label". I guess on the other matters we will simply have to agree to disagree. Every LEO with weight enforcement experience (throughout the country I might add) has taken the same position as wadcutter on this subject. I have yet to see anyone who can speak with any authority on the matter support your argument on this forum. Of course some poeple will always take the Lone Wolf position regardless of how much the evidence points in the other direction. You are going to believe what you believe and there is nothing the experienced and intelligent real experts are going to say that is going to change your mind. as usual your confusing issues and blowing other parts way out of proportion and not understanding what has been said. Do we disagree you bet. Here's what 10 ton said on TX registration; 10 ton quote: "Texas allows one to register a pickup for whatever weight you are willing to pay the tax for, when using as a company vehicle hauling your own companies equipment(non-commercial), or if it is "for hire" or commercial use and in both cases the trailer has no weight applied to the registration (token trailer tag)." experienced and Intelligent real experts. LOL. Yes I've talked with two very experienced and intelligent real experts from my state weights enforcement division which is where the clickie above came from. A direct quote from 10 ton's post " In the case of a private use pickup, it can only be registered for it's Fed label". This is not the only time he contridicts himself in the post. He also states that an insurance claim can be denied for being "overweight" which is absolutely incorrect. Your quote "I've talked with two very experienced and intelligent real experts from my state weights enforcement division". I bet you also talk to Casper on a regular basis too. Anybody on this forum can say "I talked to so and so". Let's hear it from the horses mouth. I am still waiting for one of the real experts on this forum to agree with you. Guess what, it is not going to happen. I believe the only one who is confusing the issues here is you. One thing I have learned on this forum is that some people will fight to the bitter end to defend what they believe regardless of the facts. You my friend are one of those people.738Views0likes0CommentsRe: Actual federal weight law rules, some questions and answers
JIMNLIN wrote: jmramiller wrote: If I needed medical advise would I consult a doctor or the guy changing the bed pans? I have to agree with "Dr. Wadcutter" on this one. JIMNLIN - do you really believe that every LEO officer on this forum with weight enforcement experience is wrong on this subject? I have yet to see a single LEO on this forum agree with you. In fact every response I have seen by one of these individuals has directly contradicted your claims. Maybe I'm just not looking hard enough. Are there any LEO's out there who want to support JIMLIN's claims? Guess you don't agree with what the "clickie above" on what 390.5 says regarding mising door tag GVWR, huh. Thats not surprising as the reg debunks the matteress tag theory and makes the tag a legal issue. I wasn't interested in info from bed pan changers either so I contacted both my doctor leo (OKDOT field officer and a troop S offier from our new commercial weights enforcement division) who is the only leo I'm concerned with for door tag interpetations for the state of Oklahoma. If it disagrees with your opinion or a leo from other states opinion thats your/their problem. I also don't read as you do that every leo on the web agrees with your position on door tag issues. I've heard comments that because its a RV it doesnt pertain from a leo. Many leos aren't weight certified and know very little about weight regs and how their state enforces door tag issues. 10 ton had some good info/advise also on GVWR/GAWR door tag issues. He probably knows more about door tag GVWR/GAWR issues than anyone on a RV web. Going through different state scale houses for several years gives lots of interpetation experiences. His info/opinion are correct IMO. I don't know what 10 ton knows but I can tell you what he does not know. He claims that in Texas you can only register a private truck up to the weight on the "Fed Label". This is absolutely false as I have done it myself. He also is not anywhere close in his description of how insurance companies operate. Why would I take his word on any of these matters when I know he is providing incorrect information on these subjects? I guess on the other matters we will simply have to agree to disagree. Every LEO with weight enforcement experience (throughout the country I might add) has taken the same position as wadcutter on this subject. I have yet to see anyone who can speak with any authority on the matter support your argument on this forum. Of course some poeple will always take the Lone Wolf position regardless of how much the evidence points in the other direction. You are going to believe what you believe and there is nothing the experienced and intelligent real experts are going to say that is going to change your mind.739Views0likes0CommentsRe: Actual federal weight law rules, some questions and answers
If I needed medical advice would I consult a doctor or the guy changing the bed pans? I think I will listen to "Dr. Wadcutter" when it comes to the law and how it is applied to us (RVers). JIMNLIN - do you really believe that every LEO officer on this forum with weight enforcement experience is wrong on this subject? I have yet to see a single LEO on this forum agree with you. In fact every response I have seen by one of these individuals has directly contradicted your claims. Maybe I'm just not looking hard enough. Are there any LEO's out there who want to support JIMLIN's claims?592Views0likes0CommentsRe: Actual federal weight law rules, some questions and answers
So every experienced LEO that has responded says that none of this applies to RVers. Everyone who still spouts this junk about GVWR and GAWR being legally binding and junk about RVers being hauled off to jail and being sued for being "overweight" should listen to the real experts. As I see it about the only thing I need to worry about is my registered weight...not that I ever expect I will be weighed.592Views0likes0CommentsRe: Actual federal weight law rules, some questions and answers
Ken, I have a problem with the statement you make regarding an insurance company refusing to pay a claim. If an insurance company could refuse to pay a claim due to a violation then 90% of claims would not be paid. An insurance company could no more deny to pay a claim for being overweight than they could deny a claim for running a red light. Liability insurance would pay regardless of any action taken by the owner of the policy. lein holders would also be paid. I suppose they could refuse to pay beyond that but I seriously doubt it. Perhaps someone could post a link to an article or court case where insurance payment was denied due to actions of the insured. It is my firm belief that if insurance companies were that concerned about what RVs weigh then we would all have to supply weight tags prior to receiving our policies. I also am not sure what you mean by the Fed label. You stated that in Texas one could not register a truck for more than the Fed Label. If your use of the term Fed label applies to the manufactures sticker (GVWR/gawr) then your statement would be incorrect. My Texas registered truck is registered well above the sticker GVWR. If the term Fed label applies to something else then please explain. To my knowledge there is no other label on my truck.550Views0likes0CommentsRe: Actual federal weight law rules, some questions and answers
JIMNLIN wrote: yeah, its quite evident some are to stupid to read/interpet and find guidence from your/our state dot/weight inforce division on regs in question. The thread is a stickis about actual fed weight law rules wich FMCSA provides per part 658/571/573. Also NHTSA/FMZSS regs to consider with the same parts enters into weight regs per 49 CFRs. So far some refuse to admit they are revelent and bash the messenger. That would be "too" stupid not "to" stupid, “interpret” not “interpet”, “guidance” not guidence”, “which” not “wich”, “enforce” not “inforce”, “relevant” not “revelent”. I'm not sure what a "stickis" is, unless you are talking about a "sticky". How do you expect to properly "interpet" the "guidence" you receive with this level (lack of) communication skills? Perhaps the state of OK should be more focused on public education than highway weight enforcement. So in response "to" stupid, I believe you have proven Dr. Albert Einstein correct. The messenger should only be bashed when he screws up the message. In this case all bashing is clearly justified.401Views0likes0CommentsRe: Actual federal weight law rules, some questions and answers
JIMNLIN wrote: jmramiller wrote: (snip) As this is a RV forum I in no way intended the OP to be about commercial towing. I created this thread in direct response to your multitude of posts suggesting to others that if they exceed the axle ratings posted on the door sticker they are in violation of both federal and OK law per FMCSA. You have repeatedly stated that OK uses these regs for both commercial and non commercial vehicles suggesting that non commercial TV's are legally bound by the door sticker. You have repeatedly stated that if you are pulling an RV and you get weighed for any reason in OK and over the door sticker axke weights you will be cited. After reading both the FMCSA and the OK regs there is not a single instance where the RAWR on the door sticker is legally binding. The regs do not even limit the steering axle to the door sticker ratings unless the state writes it in their own codes which the FMCSA allows but does not mandate. I challange you to prove otherwise. As far as the sticker being required by law...this is intended to protect the consumer from fraudulant claims by the manufacturer. No where in the regs that require the sticker does it require the consumer to abide by these numbers. The comparison of a mattress tag is a very good one. In fact the mattress tag clearly states that it is unlawful for the sticker to be removed by anyone other than the end user. My door sticker doesn't say anywhere that it can not be removed. you betcha' I have stated how my state enforces door tag axle weights as that is how we balance our loads per FMCSA commercial combined hauling. Any hotshoter/commercial hauler will tell you that. See my replies above for FMCSA regs. Your interpetation of cfr 49 part 567.4 as a matteress tag is yout opinion. No where does it say its just a tag for fradulent claims (disclaimer). Quite the contary. Fmcsa 571.110 is 12 pages long and states how GAWR/tire capacity/GVWR are tied and the placard with that info and the placard are a statutary requirement. That also is a state/fed requirement for a usdot number application and for a commercial combined tag for 26000 lb and above. No where have I repeatedly said we can be pulled over and cited for being over axle weights. Quite the opposite. Just as those two officer said that RVs are a low priority. What I have said is my state uses those door tag axle weights for commercial (FMCSA) and non commercial which includes axle weights right off the door tag. Your interpetation of my states regs we enforce is quite different that my state dot and OHP officers verbal info as they gave. As I said earlier guess whos interpetation I'll use. How about some documentation to back up your claims. You can't do it. Thats why I went to my state to get their interpetation. It looks to me as your not interested in finding any legalities as you seem to have a agenda just to prove someone wrong. The only way to prove I'm wrong is show folks a reg that states your claim/opinion. Those FMCSA 571 regs and FMVSS 571 regs and FMVSS 567.4 and .5 aren't just for looks or simply as a disclaimer but are statutory laws pertaining to door tag (placard) info. Just a point when your looking at fed regs on the web is sometime its a shortened version. Also look at disclaimer or new law clickies when your in FMCSA regs. Jim I have repeatedly provided links and quotes to both federal and OK state regs which support my position. Don't believe me? You have a very short memory. Look back at the first post in this thread and you will see a quote which debunks your claims. It cleary indicates that a state can not limit a non steering axle below 20k on the interstate system. That statement alone negates the limit on the door sticker. It is in black and white and it is the law. Here is the quote again: (f) Except as provided herein, States may not enforce on the Interstate System vehicle weight limits of less than 20,000 pounds on a single axle, 34,000 pounds on a tandem axle, or the weights derived from the Bridge Formula, up to a maximum of 80,000 pounds, including all enforcement tolerances. States may not limit tire loads to less than 500 pounds per inch of tire or tread width, except that such limits may not be applied to tires on the steering axle. States may not limit steering axle weights to less than 20,000 pounds or the axle rating established by the manufacturer, whichever is lower. The only axle that a state may limit to a manufacturer's established axle rating is the steering axle. I would like to make an important observation here. A lot has been made about the difinition section of this code. It is important to note that in this paragraph the terms everyone keys on in the difinition code are not used - example: GAWR, GVWR. These terms are all associated by difinition with the vehicle manufacturer. In this case the writers of the code did not use these terms. This would indicate that in this instance the "manufacturer" is not the vehicle manufacturer at all but rather the axle manufacturer. If the writers intended to refer to the vehicle manufacturer why would they have not used the terms that they so pains takingly defined? Better yet why did they not simply state "Open the door and look at the tag to see what you can carry/tow"? They didn't do it because that is not the intent of the code whatsoever. I know that none of this will sink through to you (that is a lost cause)and that is fine as I am no longer responding for your benifit but for the benifit of the other readers.290Views0likes0Comments
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