DiploStrat
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Re: Practicality of non-propane Camper
Sjm9911 wrote: .... It almost seems if you had an answer in mind before you started the thread, labeling people as unaware of the options that are out there. A little disingenuous if you ask me. Absolutely. When we are in campgrounds we get a lot of people visiting and asking about our systems. Most comment that they could not imagine a camper that did not use propane. We have not used propane (except for a small grill) for years. Simply don't need it. My only point in starting this thread was to point out that it is very possible to build a camper that is comfortable to 0F and below, for months on end, without using propane for heat or cooking. Air conditioning is, indeed, a challenge. Having installed a 12v air conditioner, and used it, I think that next time I will go back to a 110v unit. -- If it is really that hot and miserable that you NEED air conditioning, then it is probably worth paying for a campsite. And, if you have shore power, it is much more efficient to simply use 110v than to to run the air conditioner on 12v and recharge with 110v. (The charger gets hot!) -- If you need to do this in the bush, then you are probably far enough from other folk that one of the new inverter/generators is a good option. Everyone's needs differ.906Views0likes0CommentsRe: Practicality of non-propane Camper
StirCrazy wrote: While I can appreciate the ability to do this I am still amazed at how much power people use when they are camping.. Maybe I am just the not normal one. in my truck camper with the furnace running most of the time my AH consumption is about 35AH a day. in my 40 foot 5th wheel it is only up around 85 at 28 degrees F so running the furnace, letting the kids watch 1 movie a night and using my kureg in the morning and after supper and the odd microwave use.. popcorn... so your supper alone is almost my entire days use , but I am using propane not power, and same for my fridge and furnace.. I recently upgraded to LFP batteries in the camper, and I am still playing to see what I can do with it but my rough capacity is 9 to 10 times my daily use, as I use it a lot in the real early spring and late fall when there is or could be snow on the ground still and we get a lot of overcast days so I want to be able to go until the sun comes back out and can charge everything up again. I plan on switching the 5th over also , just watching for screaming sales again.. I guess my thought process is that by leaving the furnace, fridge, and stove on Propane, I can focus my power on the lights, furnace fan, pumps etc which maximizes the length of time I can go.. with the solar set up in the summer water and take capacity are my limiting factors now as I can go a couple months on the propane and I'll never run out of power with the solar panels.. Would be interesting to do an energy audit - am I using the same amount of energy, regardless of source. As my camper is considerably smaller than a fifth wheel, I suspect so. I am just using electricity as opposed to propane. My objection to propane is mostly the challenge of finding the right adapters outside of the US, getting a certification that there is no propane left before shipping, compressor refrigerators tend to work better than absorption, and, finally, a 60 gallon diesel tank will produce more heat, longer than a common propane tank without the need to refill. But if you never travel outside of the US, none of this may be worth it. Ironically, we have a gas stove at home. :D905Views0likes0CommentsRe: Practicality of non-propane Camper
valhalla360 wrote: DiploStrat wrote: As noted previously, agreed. I could have been more precise in the thread title. Or completely misleading. Should have been: "Practicality of a Diesel-Electric Camper" Yes, it can certainly be done. Heck it's done with trains and ships. Certainly can be done with an RV but the market is largely built around propane so unless you have a specialty need, there isn't really any benefit for the vast majority of people. EDITED TO READ: Fixed the Topic title! :) Certainly no attempt to mislead. Quite the contrary, my soapbox is built by the people telling me that I can't do what I have done for years. :D Agree completely, not everybody wants to do what I do, but a lot of people who visit our camper are interested.444Views0likes0CommentsRe: Practicality of non-propane Camper
Microlite Mike wrote: ... When it comes to eliminating Propane from one's typical RV one might be able to do so if they only camp in temperate climes. I encountered a couple in Arizona a couple years ago that had about 600w of solar power on the roof of their converted Step-Van and cooked using either an Instant Pot or Induction "hot plate". Since they didn't need either heat or A/C it was very workable. I do think that many have either never camped "old school" in a tent of old "teardrop trailer" or if they have, they've forgotten how it was done without heaters. Perhaps that was why large dog breeds were so popular back in the day :W I have camped old school - for years! This was our rig for decades. Camp outside Jos And, after years of freezing our knees, even with a dog, we are all about heat. As noted, we use a microwave/toaster/induction cooktop/Nespresso and are now playing with an Instant Pot. (Gotta measure the total amp draw when pressure cooking.) Never run out of power. I find your comment about heat to be a bit the reverse of our experience. With diesel heat and a fullish tank, we have heat for weeks, if not months, even at 0F. Now, we are not a 'typical' RV in that we have dual pane windows, no cold bridges, and about two inches of foam on all sides. But I would propose that it is propane heat, not diesel heat that is limiting. In fact, at 30k BTU, our Dual Top is actually oversized for our space. (The cat does not complain. :))444Views0likes0CommentsRe: Practicality of non-propane Camper
toedtoes wrote: There are always idiots who say "never" to anything they don't personally like. Nothing you say or show will convince them otherwise. Personally, I camp with only propane and battery. No generator, no hookups, no solar. Many will argue that I am doing it all wrong and how I need to do this or that to improve my camping experience. I just ignore them, save my money, and enjoy my camping my way. No solar! Dude! Your toes will fall off! :E I am not advocating that anyone what I do. I am merely making a bumble bee statement - rumor to the contrary, I can actually fly! And, if COVID rates continue to rise, I will have wasted a lot of money as I won't be able to ship. :(444Views0likes0CommentsRe: Practicality of non-propane Camper
toedtoes wrote: ... What you are describing is simply "eliminating propane". As noted previously, agreed. I could have been more precise in the thread title. Propane fittings in the US and Canada are the same (Don't know about Mexico), but that is emphatically not the case in Europe and much of South America. Depends on where you want to travel. (Same reason that I use a composting toilet, not a black tank. Those beasts are a bear to deal with outside of the US. Not because there is anything wrong with them, but because no one uses them.) Beyond that, using diesel or gasoline for cabin heat can give you longer autonomy when traveling/camping. Scholars can debate the safety of propane, but in most cases, it is not an issue. Especially if you do not use a propane refrigerator. In the end it all depends on how you use your camper. As noted here, many are convinced that you cannot build a camper without propane and a generator. You can, but you will need systems that are more robust than those on many production RV's. Nice discussion by Rick Howe HERE.444Views0likes0CommentsRe: Practicality of non-propane Camper
K3WE wrote: Very simple: Do you want, or need to camp with batteries/no electrical hookup? This nails the essence of what I am talking about - extended camping without propane or shore power. None of this is relevant if your normal mode of travel is to go to campgrounds with power/water/etc. I am NOT proposing that this is better or required, simply noting that it is the way some of us travel. Typical battery setups fall way way way short on heating, cooking and AC . This is exactly my point - typical setups can't do it. But it is not that hard to build a camper than can, and easily. I do have a microwave, toaster, Nespresso, cooktop, computer, vacuum, etc. Don't use (need) :(a hair dryer. As noted, I have once, in 8 years, bothered to actually start the engine for meal prep, and this was more of a precaution in a tropical storm, rather then a necessity due to dead batteries. A basic set up would entail: -- Diesel, gasoline, or heat exchanger for cabin heat and hot water. -- Around 150Ah of battery for every day that you expect no sun and will not start the engine. That is more than we have ever used. We went for years with a 600Ah AGM battery which gave us between 300 and 450Ah usable. Lithium batteries are not required, but they do save a lot of weight and space. -- A 2000 - 3000w inverter. We have a 2000w with a 12v air conditioner. With a 110v air conditioner, we used a 2800w unit. -- The rule of thumb is 100w of solar per 100A of battery. The magic numbers come in the 1000 - 1500w range. At 1500w you can feed 50-75A to your air conditioner and still have 50+A to charge your batteries. (Friend of mine has this and I am sooooo jealous! He doesn't even bother to charge from his engine and runs his air conditioner 24/7 in Mexico. Of course, he does have really good sun! Everlanders) Offered for your consideration.444Views0likes0CommentsRe: Practicality of non-propane Camper
Please see my first post. I think the point is that it is very possible to build an off-grid camper that is comfortable from below 0F to whatever heat you can stand without using propane or a generator. When used for cabin heat and hot water, propane is not as effective as gasoline or diesel. And I would certainly never try to heat a camper electrically, although I have seen a lot of folks using heat strips or pumps. Expedition campers, as opposed to RV's, try to avoid propane as it is low energy for weight/volume, can be difficult to fill outside of the US (need adapters), and it can be difficult/expensive to get a certificate that it has been removed before shipment. (To be fair, a good friend of mine carries a lot of adapters and, because he uses propane only for cooking, and, with a 30 gallon tank, he has around 90 days, he argues that if you can't find propane in 30 days, you aren't trying. That said, the last we chatted, he was considering going to an induction cooktop. (FWIW - most of us who have used diesel cooktops don't like them. But that is another discussion.) Air conditioning without shore power or a generator is a challenge - less for the cooling and more for the recharge. I can easily do 12 hours; absent a long drive and a lot of sun, I may not be able to do it three days in a row. :(277Views0likes0Comments
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