JeffPritchard
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Re: short bed - sliding hitch vs sidewinder?
C Schomer wrote: My 5er came with a SW/5th AB but I have a LB so I removed the SW and reused the 5th AB and moved it back 10.5" to do away with the ext. pin position. I towed it home 1000 mile with the SW and I couldn't tell any difference from a solid pin box. After removing the SW, I still couldn't tell any difference. My hitch is 3" in front of the axle and the pivot point of the SW was 9" behind the axle. The pivot point of a bumper pull is about 4', maybe even more, with a WD hitch sticking out farther. I'll take the 9" behind the axle any day over a bumper pull! That little bit was undetectable even when I went back and forth with the SW and the pin positions. I have friends who put their regular 5er hitches 6"- 8" behind the axle, on their SBs, so they wouldn't need a slider and that also worked fine. A heavy slider would be the very last resort for me. I'd find a SB friendly 5er and mount the hitch farther back if I needed a little more. Craig Thanks Craig, lots of sensible stuff here. One thing that occurs to me though is that putting regular hitch back slightly behind the axle would have some negative impact on the whole "weight police thing" for me, since my truck will be a well-configured "half ton". For such a truck, I'm told that even with "legal" numbers, the rear axle has more weight than it should. A slightly forward hitch position puts at least a couple hundred pounds more of the pin weight onto the front axle instead of the rear. (whereas the behind the axle position would actually move some of the engine weight onto the rear axle via lever action)368Views0likes0CommentsRe: short bed - sliding hitch vs sidewinder?
Learjet wrote: N-Trouble wrote: sfpcservice wrote: The sidewinder in my opinion turns your truck back into a bumper pull by moving the pivot point behid the rear axle. No, moving the pivot point back doesn't affect how the load is distributed. Weight is still over the TV axles so its still going to tow like any other 5er in that regard. How does the physics of this really work? yes the weight is still over the axle, but an arm is locked to hitch that extends reward. So, any side, load such a semi pushing on the side of trailer would generate leverage on this arm...thus twisting around the hitch. So yes similar to a bumper pull...but with a shorter arm. I haven't seen one of these up close and in person yet. the youtube videos show a "wedge thingy" that prevents the arm from rotating at the kingpin. The "turret" on the sidewinder pivots. This means a side load on the camper can create a small angle between the camper and the truck. That would apply a twisting force around the z axis of the truck at the king pin. Essentially trying to twist the truck around the kingpin. So the forces are ALL still applied to the truck AT the kingpin. In the case of a side load on the trailer, the force applied at the kingpin would change from a purely side to side load at the kingpin, to a twisting force or torque. Either way, all of it is applied at the kingpin (which would normally be near the axle of the truck). Whether changing that force from a translational one to a twisting moment at the kingpin is a "bad thing", I couldn't say.368Views0likes0CommentsRe: short bed - sliding hitch vs sidewinder?
N-Trouble wrote: I assume by short bed your talking 6.5" and not the little 5" beds you seen on some of the newer 1/2 tons? Sliders are heavy and you likely don't need one with most new 5ers have tapered nose caps. The Andersen hitch moves the pivot point back ~5-6" which gives some additional clearance vs a non-sliding hitch and in most cases will get you to 90" with a 96" wide trailer. For you application I would highly recommend the Andersen Ultimate Aluminum hitch which comes in at only 30lbs, Finally googled this thing. Very unusual. Lots of interesting good features. I wonder though...how difficult is it to get that ball lined up perfectly enough when you're docking? On the one hand, you would be able to see it out the back window...but on the other hand it looks like a less sloppy connection than a typical ball hitch. Any troubles with that?303Views0likes0Commentsshort bed - sliding hitch vs sidewinder?
Newbie to 5th wheel arena. I'm in the throes of figuring out my next rig. I'm planning to go with a short bed "half-ton" (nay-sayers, please hold your tongue this time...already hashed that out in another thread. :) ) I have looked at a fair number of youtube vids about the awesomeness of both sliding hitches and sidewinder/revolution pin-box approach to avoiding collision between trailer and rear of cab. I can't seem to decide yet which is "better". Any of you have tried both and can compare/contrast the two approaches?13KViews0likes43CommentsRe: crash course in 5th wheel hitches?
Thanks very much to the forum members. I learned a lot about how the numbers work and about which numbers are most "difficult" to plan for with a 5'er. I also learned quite a bit about 5th wheel hitches along the way, which is what I actually posted about. :)144Views0likes0CommentsRe: crash course in 5th wheel hitches?
valhalla360 wrote: JeffPritchard wrote: Another thing I noticed when I looked at the weights table for the Cougar XL line (just because it was handy on my desktop, and is probably somewhat typical for the "HT" segment)... ...the CCC for TT's is paltry compared to same size/weight of 5'er. Seems to me the average family user would be up a creek with these tiny CCC's. Put just a small amount of travel water and propane in the TT, and a few odds and ends of gear, and you're already over your CCC. In fact, if you put just a normal amount of "stuff" in a HT TT, your tongue weight would probably shoot way above what's listed in the table...making it similar to that of the same size 5/er's pin weight. I'm confused. You started with the presumption of going super light so you could stay with an undersized truck and suddenly, you want to carry 2 tons of cargo in the trailer? If you are insistent on 1/2 ton, you really are better off with a bumper pull. Advice has been given, it's pretty well a consensus about combining a 5th wheel with a 1/2 ton. It's your call if you want to accept it. Sorry for the confusion. This was not about me. It was simply an aside about TT. I want neither a TT nor 2 tons of cargo.144Views0likes0CommentsRe: crash course in 5th wheel hitches?
kzspree320 wrote: There is some truth about the levering, but that is at least partially offset by the weight distributing hitch if set up correctly. The Op is talking about a 10,000 trailer and a half ton. If you have an average half ton with about 1,600 lbs of payload, it is possible to stay within vehicle manufacturer GVWR and RAWR with 10% hitch weight of 1,000 lbs. With the 2,000 lb pin weight, plus weight of the hitch and all other cargo/people, you will not only be well over the GVWR, but probably way over the RAWR as well. This is why people are recommending the travel trailer with the half ton. While many 3/4 and 1 ton trucks share a lot of common major components and frames, the same can not be said for half tons. Even if you beef up the suspension and wheels/tires, you still have smaller brakes, lighter frames, etc. I think a 10,000 lb travel trailer is really pushing it, but may work. I personally would never suggest a 10,000 lb fiver for an average half ton pickup. JMHO. Keith I appreciate the input Keith. Not sure if you realize it, but you made up your own numbers that are different from what I posted. "2015 F-150 SuperCrew XLT 4X4 3.5eco Max towing: 11,500 lbs Max payload: 2,020 lbs. Cougar X-lite 26RLS (one example) Shipping Weight: 6885 CCC: 3070 Hitch weight: 1155" This is neither a "10,000 pound trailer" nor an "average half ton". For me, with nowhere near the CCC limit, it would be more like a 9000 pound trailer. The truck has a max payload of 2020, not 1600. This trailer is closer to 16% pin weight ratio than the 20% you used. In other words, there is an intersection of half-ton and 5th wheel that is safe and legal.144Views0likes0CommentsRe: crash course in 5th wheel hitches?
In looking back on today's bevy of replies, I noticed I missed one. JIMNLIN mentioned the rear weight, and tires. I have for many years always upgraded my tires as soon as I get a truck. I still feel both the pain of paying for and the enjoyment of the nice look and feel and sound and confidence of the 6 'E' rated BFG T/A KO's on my ridiculously large dually. The new truck will be similarly equipped...but this time only 4 of them :)133Views0likes0Comments
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