tealboy
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Re: What is this cat scale telling me?
JRscooby wrote: dodge guy wrote: To know for sure weigh the tongue with the bathroom scale method. You would be hard pressed to convince me a bathroom scale/beam set up will read within the 20 lbs the cat rounds things. He is far enough from the hitch limit we know not over, so not too heavy. He has not mentioned any handling issues, so not too light. For fun, I brought home a 400lb big game scale from the hunt ranch. I’m going to weigh it since I can but not bc I have any doubt about the actual weight of the tongue. Edit: just weighted using game scale and came up with 285. Used bathroom scale which maxes at 300 and I got 295. Cat scale indicated 320. More variances than I would prefer since I like to be precise but bottom line is, no matter what scale I use, I’m under tongue rating.779Views0likes0CommentsRe: What is this cat scale telling me?
I land in the same place as JRscooby, seems to be 320 on the tongue and 2440 on the axle and 2760 all in TW. Unless someone can prove otherwise, I don’t see how it can be 420 but open to those who are convinced otherwise. As far as handling, I just drove it in a 5 hour trip and it did great. Everything felt good and the squat seemed to be less than 2”. The vehicle is a Lexus rx350 with tow pkg.778Views0likes0CommentsRe: What is this cat scale telling me?
So my rig weighs 2760 gross with 11.59% tongue weight at 320lbs or 11.59%, right? From an unbraked trailer standpoint, I am 1765lbs over the gvwr. The vehicle is rated for 1000lbs unbraked and 3500 braked. Recognizing there is a decent amount of cushion in the unbraked manufacture recommendation, I am probably still too heavy, even though I’ve towed like this several times without issue. It is the emergency braking where I could have an issue I suppose, though the braking does feel pretty good even when a hit them fairly hard. Agree?260Views0likes0CommentsWhat is this cat scale telling me?
I tried to provide you with a picture but it was asking for a url and I didn’t know how to do that so here are the figures from the cat scale this morning. I think I understand but the tongue weight is most confusing to me, too heavy if 420 lbs but then there is a difference of 100 in the steer axle that I don’t know how to account for. With trailer attached to med sized suv Steer axle 2600 Drive, 2360 Trailer axle 2440 Gross 7400 Suv only with 2 (all cat wt includes 2 occupants at 300lbs total and min cargo) Steer 2700 Drive 1940 Trailer 0 Gross 4640 Vehicle specs from door label Gvwr 5665 Front axle rating 3000 Rear axle rating 3105 Payload 1444 Curb wt 4222 lbs4.7KViews0likes22CommentsRe: Unbraked trailer, towing limitations
I didn’t mean for this thread to turn into such a long debate, although there are a number of useful responses, so thank you. All of this came from the fact that I was unaware of these very low thresholds and the seemingly conservative approach from the manufacturers. Most of my towing has been 2-3k lb boats and trailers using large full size suvs. In some cases, the cargo inside of the suv might have been another 800 lbs but with published tow ratings of 8400, and a bit of ignorance, I thought I was doing it right. I never had a situation that necessitated emergency braking so I don’t know what would have happened but in all my routine driving under these circumstances, I didn’t have any close calls or problems, and no reason to think I was posing a risk to myself or others. Clearly I was wrong, even after giving myself some wiggle room for manufacturer conservativeness. Now, I feel fairly educated on the subject and trying to make good decisions, particularly since I am in the market for a new suv. All of this is entirely related to my safety and the safety of others affected by my actions, and the risk of legal consequences. It has nothing to do with warranties, damaging the vehicle, or getting pulled over for a weight inspection since my loads wouldn’t trigger any obvious concerns. We live in a litigious society and at this age I worry about that stuff more, in addition to general safety.572Views0likes0CommentsRe: Unbraked trailer, towing limitations
mkirsch wrote: That's just it. It's a "recommendation" at best, not a "limit." Those who have trouble with reading comprehension believe it is some sort of law, and that the F150 trailer towing shock patrol is going to spring from the bushes, throw them to the ground, stuff a sack over their head, and drag them off to a Siberian gulag if they try towing 1501lbs without brakes. You are obviously smarter than everyone else. You can word smith as you wish, but I’ve looked at so many vehicles and these limits that I’m sure I mixed facts but for example, straight from the owners manual, Gmc 1500 sierra Denali says “loaded trailers over 2000 lbs must be equipped with brake systems and with brakes for each axles”. I see the word”must” as a limit or requirement. Toyota Sequoia and the tundra, owners manual says “ maximum allowable unbraked trailer weight is 1000 lbs”. You might also interpret that as a recommendation not a requirement but I don’t. Ford, in all fairness is more vague. They say “ separate functional brakes “should” be used for safe control of towed vehicles and for trailers where the gcwr of the towing vehicle plus the trailer exceed the gvwr of the tow vehicle”. You have to do some math and make assumptions here but the way I understand it , the payload is appx 1550-2000lbs depending on model so that would imply a fairly low tow threahold before brakes “should” be used assuming you are trying to operate the vehicle in a safe and controlled manner as ford puts it.378Views0likes0CommentsRe: Unbraked trailer, towing limitations
blt2ski wrote: For what it's worth, GM recommends brakes for trailers over 2000 lbs in my 1500. Which, is about the max payload of the truck. Brakes it's 6700 or so.....blown that number out of the water. Identical V8 it's around 11,000 braked. I'll stick to my earlier, if the trailer puts you much over the manufactures GVW, say max 500-1000 lbs, best to have brakes on it, no matter the vehicle. Marty Yes, I looked up gm too, they are 2000 lbs for the sierra but also the Yukon/Tahoe but after all that I’ve discovered in this process, including our discussion today in response to my post, I’ve pretty much landed with what Marty says here, 500-1000 outside of gvwr will certainly fall within the safety margin of what the manufacturer has designed. Frankly, 1000 seems like the right breakpoint but I’m going to do a bit more math before officially deciding. Im also heading to the cat scale Friday.379Views0likes0CommentsRe: Unbraked trailer, towing limitations
I appreciate all the great feedback. I still find this revelation very surprising and unexpected as I’ve pulled 2k to 3000 pound trailers for 30 years and never realized how extremely low unbraked ratings. As much as you all know about towing, I still suspect many of you did not realize the limits were only 1 to 2000 depending on the manufacture. I say that because Many of you are already dealing with heavier loads that automatically come brakes so digging deeply into the subject of unbraked is unnecessary. With these low limits in mind, it would be interesting to start paying attention to all the F150s, towing 2000”-4000 pound trailer around and I bet most of them won’t have trailer brakes. I don’t say that to say it’s right or to justify anything I just think it’s the reality of how uninformed people are given all the hype the manufacturers place around the top rated tow numbers with no Asterix to prompt people to dig deeper. The F150 for example Has a unbraked limit of 1500 lbs.420Views0likes0CommentsUnbraked trailer, towing limitations
Hey folks, I’m looking for a new tow vehicle for a rig coming in at 2700 lbs, loaded, per the scale. I decided to trade down to a more modest unibody suv like the highlander, telluride or similar with tow ratings of 5000 lbs.vs my customary Tahoe or sequoia since I tow infrequently (3-4x/year). However, I discovered something I was unaware of, these vehicles often come with a 1000lb limit when trailers are “Unbraked”. My trailer does not have brakes, seems many in this lower weight class don’t, though some do. My state law requires brakes at 3000lbs. This discovery caused me to to rethink the mid size suv and go back to the sequoia or a Tahoe. I was shocked to realize the big sequoia with 7500 lbs tow rating is also limited to 1000 lbs Unbraked. The Tahoe is 2000 lbs. The gm line of 1500 series pickups also 2k. Wow. It seems the manufacturers are providing very conservative figures for Unbraked trailers due to liability so no matter what I pick outside of a 2500 series, I am out of compliance with manufactures recommendations/requirements and potentially subject to liability in an accident even though I’m within state law. I know this group is far more informed than average people relative to towing but I see tons of smaller to mid size trailers like mine, including many boats, without brakes and suspect most are totally unknowing of these low thresholds bc the manufactures brag about high tow ratings but you need to look much deeper for the Unbraked limits . I’m not sure what to do now. Thoughts on the subject and your awareness of these vehicle limitations?17KViews0likes113Comments
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