CWSWine
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Re: GVWR
CWSWine wrote: blt2ski wrote: CWSWine wrote: Cummins12V98 wrote: Cummins12V98 wrote: "This is how I come to my conclusion to not exceeding GVWR." Since you have this GVWR figured out please explain how my RAM Dually has 6k for axle rating and 9,750# rear axle rating and has 14K GVWR. The fact that the RAWR for example is part of the SAE rating and I do run 9,750# rear but even if I only add the unloaded front axle weight of about 5,250# that puts me at 15K. No one can explain this? I did not write the first sentence above. Most hotshots are towing empty RVs with 1 Ton trucks and the UVW seldom exceeds the GVWR. If they have a DOT number they have to comply. DOT uses the VIN to pull the manufacture specs into the weight stations computer. When they drive on the scales they have all green on the screen including the GVWR. During my research, I sat in weight station and watch the weighting process. Ask the operator how many get nailed for over GVWR and very few commercial trucks since the GVWR on commercial trucks are rate high enough they normally exceed GAWR before GVWR but it does happen. You realize MOST if not ALL commercial trucks, the gvwr is the sum of the axle weight ratings! At least my MDT is that way. Hence why most rigs will get an over weight on an axel, before getting over weight for the sum. Hence also why, many rigs install drop axels etc so they can not always carry more weight, but if a load is loaded incorrectly, ie dump trucks etc, they can stay legal per the axel wts. I've also been pulled over at the weigh scales, by CVEO's in vans etc. I have yet to get an overweight ticket, even being 150% of the vehicles gvwr per Navistar. I get the FBL regs, assuming I have enough paid for tag on the truck. Even the one time I was over by 1200 lbs of paid tag, I was given 10 days to up the tag by 2000 lbs, as weight is sold here in Wa St. A whopping $15 per ton! You also realize, if a state uses the manufacture numbers to decide the gvwr of a rig, they can lose federal funding for road repairs etc? Hence why it is very black and white as to what a rig can run down the road at per the FBL. Again, as I stated above, there is more than one way to look at how one can run down the road at given weight! GCWR does not have a place in weight laws. Only GVW! Marty When I got my oil change in my Freightliner chassis I had long talk with one the salesman about Class 8 Trucks. Every truck he had stock and the same GVWR but they were several with different axle configuration/ratings. He also said the weak link on Class 8 truck are the tires and axles, the frames, brakes and ect are built to well above the GVWR since they spend many years or the road towing heavy loads that has to be margin built in. He also said that wasn't true with all trucks that some the limiting factor isn't the axles but some other component of the truck. No one has explaned to me why the towing guides say not to exceed either the axle or GVWR. About 1 1/2 ago I printed out several of you post and brought them to KC CDL training center and the instructor said that you don't know talking about... I just quite paying any attention to your post.673Views0likes0CommentsRe: GVWR
blt2ski wrote: CWSWine wrote: Cummins12V98 wrote: Cummins12V98 wrote: "This is how I come to my conclusion to not exceeding GVWR." Since you have this GVWR figured out please explain how my RAM Dually has 6k for axle rating and 9,750# rear axle rating and has 14K GVWR. The fact that the RAWR for example is part of the SAE rating and I do run 9,750# rear but even if I only add the unloaded front axle weight of about 5,250# that puts me at 15K. No one can explain this? I did not write the first sentence above. Most hotshots are towing empty RVs with 1 Ton trucks and the UVW seldom exceeds the GVWR. If they have a DOT number they have to comply. DOT uses the VIN to pull the manufacture specs into the weight stations computer. When they drive on the scales they have all green on the screen including the GVWR. During my research, I sat in weight station and watch the weighting process. Ask the operator how many get nailed for over GVWR and very few commercial trucks since the GVWR on commercial trucks are rate high enough they normally exceed GAWR before GVWR but it does happen. You realize MOST if not ALL commercial trucks, the gvwr is the sum of the axle weight ratings! At least my MDT is that way. Hence why most rigs will get an over weight on an axel, before getting over weight for the sum. Hence also why, many rigs install drop axels etc so they can not always carry more weight, but if a load is loaded incorrectly, ie dump trucks etc, they can stay legal per the axel wts. I've also been pulled over at the weigh scales, by CVEO's in vans etc. I have yet to get an overweight ticket, even being 150% of the vehicles gvwr per Navistar. I get the FBL regs, assuming I have enough paid for tag on the truck. Even the one time I was over by 1200 lbs of paid tag, I was given 10 days to up the tag by 2000 lbs, as weight is sold here in Wa St. A whopping $15 per ton! You also realize, if a state uses the manufacture numbers to decide the gvwr of a rig, they can lose federal funding for road repairs etc? Hence why it is very black and white as to what a rig can run down the road at per the FBL. Again, as I stated above, there is more than one way to look at how one can run down the road at given weight! GCWR does not have a place in weight laws. Only GVW! Marty When I got my oil change in my Freightliner chassis I had long talk with one the salesman about Class 8 Trucks. Every truck he had stock and the same GVWR but they were several with different axle configuration/ratings. He also said the weak link on Class 8 truck are the tires and axles, the frames, brakes and ect are built to well above the GVWR since they spend many years or the road towing heavy loads that has to be margin built in. He also said that wasn't true with all trucks that some the limiting factor isn't the axles but some other component of the truck. No one has explaned to me why the towing guides say not to exceed either the axle or GVWR.673Views0likes0CommentsRe: GVWR
Me Again wrote: Cummins12V98 wrote: Cummins12V98 wrote: "This is how I come to my conclusion to not exceeding GVWR." Since you have this GVWR figured out please explain how my RAM Dually has 6k for axle rating and 9,750# rear axle rating and has 14K GVWR. The fact that the RAWR for example is part of the SAE rating and I do run 9,750# rear but even if I only add the unloaded front axle weight of about 5,250# that puts me at 15K. No one can explain this? I did not write the first sentence above. Same here. Front axle weighs 5120 and RGAWR is 7,000. Load the rear axle fully, which I do at times, and I am at 12,120. GVWR is 11,700. Licensed to 12K in Washington State, so if I was going to do this often, I would pay few bucks more a year for 14K tonnage. In your case you should pay for 16K tonnage. Chris That is simple -- GVWR is not solely the rating of the axles it also takes in the account the frame, brakes, stopping distance and the overall trucks capacity. You using only one part of the truck to justify your ratings. That like saying that my rims are rated to 10,000 pounds so the rest of the truck is also rated to 10,000. It's not just one part (axles) it is the sum of the parts that determine GVWR.674Views0likes0CommentsRe: GVWR
Cummins12V98 wrote: Cummins12V98 wrote: "This is how I come to my conclusion to not exceeding GVWR." Since you have this GVWR figured out please explain how my RAM Dually has 6k for axle rating and 9,750# rear axle rating and has 14K GVWR. The fact that the RAWR for example is part of the SAE rating and I do run 9,750# rear but even if I only add the unloaded front axle weight of about 5,250# that puts me at 15K. No one can explain this? I did not write the first sentence above. Most hotshots are towing empty RVs with 1 Ton trucks and the UVW seldom exceeds the GVWR. If they have a DOT number they have to comply. DOT uses the VIN to pull the manufacture specs into the weight stations computer. When they drive on the scales they have all green on the screen including the GVWR. During my research, I sat in weight station and watch the weighting process. Ask the operator how many get nailed for over GVWR and very few commercial trucks since the GVWR on commercial trucks are rate high enough they normally exceed GAWR before GVWR but it does happen.674Views0likes0CommentsRe: GVWR
blt2ski wrote: MFL wrote: Wonder what happened to Swine??? Either he ran out of copy/paste material, or he moved to an actual truck forum and learned where the ratings come from. Jerry Either that, or he has realized there are more than one limit that we can load our trucks to. The manufacture warranty limit The civil court limit, which may or may not be the manufacture limit, depending upon the reason for the issue to be in civil court. Or the FBL limit, which is the engineer based limit the road can handle load wise. ie 20K per axel, 34K per tandem, which can be limited to 500 lbs per inch width of tire. Along with many other point load limits to the road bed which are beyond any scope I have had to deal with. last, the most important limit, if you are required to pay tonnage on you tag, that is lower than any of the above limits, that is your max amount. As I am only legal to 8000 lbs in my 2000 C2500. I can not legally run down the road at 8600 lbs as the door sticker states. If pulled over, I can expect a potential 600 lbs over weight ticket if weighed. Altho reality is, the local CVEO/LEO will give me a 10 day raise my tag to 10K and send me on my way, as I am below the FBL laws, my states weight law limits etc. So all they really want is the tax for the damage to the road I am causing at that GVW. I have yet to see a "GCWR" law limit per say in any states, or the Federal Bridge Law max amounts I can run down the road at.I can legally run down the road towing a 100,000 lb load with my old 76 Toyota with a 120 HP motor if I wanted too. I am also assuming I am in an area where the speed limit is on the low side, maybe towing an over width load in farm country, or even city roads in Seattle lets say, where max limit is 25 mph, need pilot cars etc. So reality is, there is more than one way to look at max weight you can run down the road at. marty So the question becomes, which load limit are you going to follow etc l learned to read a long time ago and research my options. Quoted From Towing Guides must not cause vehicle weights to exceed rear GAWR or GVWR. I'm not so stupid to believe the Forum Engineers that claim that the Tow Guides are incorrect and they know best. I'm not the type to take the word from some that say "Just Believe Me Because I'm Smarter Than the Manufacture." I don't believe the butt test and if it moves as standard to what a truck can tow. I don't make excuses for the stupidity of buying the wrong truck and now trying to justify my mistake it by ignoring the limits put on the truck by the manufacturer. I don't believe that lady behind the counter at DMV can raise the manufacture specs of the truck LOL. The weight you get from the DVM just another limit in the long list of specs not to exceed, it doesn't become the holy grail and voids all the manufacture ratings. LOL The "Forum Engineers" quote DOT specs but when ask about RV stopping at weight scales or log book they are first to say the DOT regs do not apply to RVs - Which Is It? It's just fun to watch people trying to justify their mistakes.... LOL440Views0likes0CommentsRe: GVWR
wnjj wrote: Not even "ratings" are clear cut. The statement below that's in the manual that was supplied with your truck and the towing guides aren't clear-cut. Trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight should be 10% (15% for 5th-wheel towing) of total loaded trailer weight. Make sure vehicle payload (reduce by option weight) will accommodate trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight and weight of passengers and cargo added to towing vehicle. Addition of trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight and weight of passengers and cargo must not cause vehicle weights to exceed rear GAWR or GVWR. These ratings can be found on the vehicle Federal Safety Compliance Certification Label.”386Views0likes0CommentsRe: GVWR
This is how I come to my conclusion to not exceeding GVWR. Here is what it says in the owner manual and tow guides. “Note: Trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight should be 10% (15% for 5th-wheel towing) of total loaded trailer weight. Make sure vehicle payload (reduce by option weight) will accommodate trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight and weight of passengers and cargo added to towing vehicle. Addition of trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight and weight of passengers and cargo must not cause vehicle weights to exceed rear GAWR or GVWR. These ratings can be found on the vehicle Federal Safety Compliance Certification Label.” —OR— Just take the word or a few very active posters that the factory information is incorrect and you can ignore manufactures GVWR but you should honor the manufactures ratings for the Axles (GAWR) which both are listed on the Federal Safety Compliance Certification. Link https://www.ford.com/cmslibs/content/dam/brand_ford/en_us/brand/resources/general/pdf/guides/18RV&TT_Ford_SuperDtyPU_Nov27.pdf Next I contacted GMC Commercial Sales and ask about exceeding GVWR and loaded to GAWR and they sent me this link and this is the GMC official position. http://www.gmc.com/gmc-life/how-to/understanding-gross-vehicle-weight-rating I believe that it is very slim chance that you going to get ticketed for being over your trucks GVWR of even the GAWR/GCWR/tire ratings. My research turned to the legal side started at the link below. “Towing in excess of the vehicle manufactures’s weight limits could not only prove dangerous but could be considered negligent In the event of an accident with an overweight personal vehicle, you could be held responsible for higher awards in a lawsuit for damages to other people, vehicles or property.” Link: http://www.personalinjuryclaimsblawg.com/personal-vehicle-towing-liability-for-rvers/ Still not total convinced I made an appointment with my trusted family lawyer and he explained how manufactures specs on all kinds of products are used in civil court to gain higher awards and there doesn’t have to be a law prohibiting exceeding manufacture specs to play a role in court. The towing guids and the Trucks User manual will be gospile in civil court. The other question you might want to ask is what happens if a lawsuit exceeds my limits on my insurance policy and how to protect yourself. That question can’t be answered unless someone knows what assets would be exposed and what’s your income level. That was an eye opening meeting. Also check with the local State Patrol, DOT scales operator, and a CDL Training center they agreed you should never exceed you GVWR and load to GAWR. This is where my research led me and now I’m going to called the weight police and attacked. Your research may lead you in a different conclusion. Everything in life has risk but you have decided if the rewards are worth the risk. In my case towing above GVWR was not worth the risk. What seemed strange to me that GVWR, GAWR GCWR, tire ratings are all manufacture ratings why would ignore just one but GAWR is not to be exceeded. I love it when people say that the little lady behind the counter at the county offices can increase the payload of 1/2 ton truck to over 14,000 pounds that were set by engineers at the manufacturer sets. I guess those little ladies now have engineering degrees to work there. LOL374Views0likes0CommentsRe: Max Tow F150s
Numbers are the first step and very important step but that doesn't guarantee you will have a safe setup. I went from a Prime Time 5er 35 foot long weight in round 13,000 pounds loaded ready to camp. Pulled great even in 30 mile per hour side winds and didn't move even an inch when a Simi past. Traded it for Montana 3711FL that measured 42 foot long weigh in at around 14,500 ready to camp. Was pulling it with a 2015 Ford 1 Ton diesel. My Ford 1 Ton diesel was Super Cab with 157-inch wheelbase with 3744 payload rating and the Montana was 150 pounds under my GVWR and 800 pounds under my rear GAWR. So within all numbers and it gave me lots of white-knuckle moments in even 10 to 15 mile per hour side winds and a pass Simi would move the wag the dog. Tried sway bars, rearranging the contents of the 5er, increase air in tires and nothing work. I come to the conclusion that it was the length of the RV and the front living room floorplan with less forward of the axle weight and the short 157-inch wheelbase. Put in a friends DRW and even 35 miles per hour side winds didn't move it. Talk to a couple of people with just the SRW long bed and they didn't have any problems towing.. We traded Montana for Solitude 34 foot and got caught in I10 in 40 gusting 55 and didn't have to pull over. I guess all the babble that being within specs is good by it doesn't tell the entire story. The length and Floor Plan can make a difference even when all the numbers are within range. Edit My 2015 Ford 1-ton Diesel had hitch rating of 1250 pounds lower than your F150. My GMC 1-ton diesel had 1800 pounds rating.577Views0likes0CommentsRe: Max Tow F150s
Maury82 wrote: CWSWine wrote: Still the first rating you probably hit with a Heavy Payload F150 is the hitch rating. My neighbors 2014 Heavy Payload hitch of 1140 if I remember right. Maybe someone would post a picture of the sticker on the hitch of Heavy Payload. When I towed TTS I liked my tongue weight at or over 13% so that will keep the TT less than 9000 pounds(9000 X 13% = 1170). Ford got the 11,000 plus rating using 10% tongue which I wouldn’t want tow with that low percentage. That rating is before you hook up the W/D. My 2015 Ford 1 ton had a 1250 pound hitch rating my 2016 GMC had 3 inch receiver rated like 1800 pounds. Well, I just got back from the dealer with my 2018 3.5 EB, S.Crew, XLT HDPP with the 6.5 bed, and the hitch is rated at 13,200lbs and 1,320lbs tongue with WDH. My payload according to the yellow sticker is 2,470lbs. GVWR is 7,850lbs, RAWR 4800lbs, truck weight is 5,380lbs Now, my trailer is well below all ratings and capacity of this truck, this is one of those things you can't tell me that this truck isn't capable of towing my trailer just because it's a "half ton", but I have to see it to believe it. They made some advancements since 2014 If you are like me and prefer a hitch of 13% or more you should be able to get close to 10,000 pound TT before exceeding the hitch rating. That leaves close to 1100 pounds of people and cargo.104Views0likes0CommentsRe: Max Tow F150s
Ron3rd wrote: CWSWine wrote: It is interesting how soft we have gotten over the last 150 years. Just a hundred years ago my great grand parents drove Model Ts over dirt roads and their parents came across the USA in covered wagons. Now the ride of 1-ton truck on paved road is unexceptable. As a nation WE sure have gotten soft. ...and most 1/2 ton owners don't tow anything. When my son bought his first house, he found out that having a truck is very handy, after frequently asking, "dad, can I borrow your truck?". He lives down the street from Home Depot and does a lot of projects around the house. Not interested in towing. He ended up with a Tacoma which serves his purposes just fine. I agree. We have considered buying a F150 EB for that very reason but we won’t be towing with it but will be towed behind our motor home. We could load side-by-side in the bed and bring it with us towed behind the motor home and not loose the living space of a toyhauler. I would really miss my Jeep Wrangler.99Views0likes0Comments
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