CheeseEater88
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Re: 12v and 110v and techquestions
I'm just responding to your criticisms. Sq ft on the roof, number of pannels, skylights, inverter size, battery voltage a home. You do realize that any inverter I add will be new to the unit, same with the solar system, same with the batteries. So any wiring or any setup will be added. Close looped or tied in it makes no difference. What is an issue is using products within thier design capacity. Using a 1200w inverter to run a microwave just isn't my cup of tea. Using components in systems in general that are not designed to handle the load is not something I want to get into. It makes me liable for anything that could happen, whether or not some substandard equipment was to actually blame or not. Some people on this thread have been very helpful, making components suggestions, telling me to plan big because it's hard to upgrade again after you install a controller or start your setup. I admit I don't know AC or renewables like solar very well. I'd like to think I have DC down. I've only had a bit of EM in college, and only like 3-4 classes dedicated to 12v systems, and only a few months devoted to vAC. But I came here to find out about what's needed to bring about a safe and proper system. I wouldn't have thought about the surge protector, and I would have probably been chasing the wrong style of all in one charger/inverter/mppt, for a but longer than I did. For whatever reason initially I was thinking I should have a 3000w inverter, I've knocked that back to 2000w (I did find an aims inverter with a decent pass through for ac). I'm still flopping in my mind about the 12 vs 24, but 200amps is much easier to do than 300amp was. The midnite sun mppt controller on either voltage will likely do more than any output the pannels can make. The sky lights Im still bothered by, and asked the vendor about them, if it would be possible to have the factory not cut them into the roof. If they were more substantial and less temporary looking I might let them slide. It's a cheap trailer, it has some cheap features, I think the skylights are taking most of my focus because I It's one of my few gripes about it. The rest of my gripes are about par for the course on the small trailer side, but this one despite It's skylights was the most pleasing to me amenity and feature wise for that weight class.714Views0likes0CommentsRe: 12v and 110v and techquestions
It's a high desert, snowfall is minimal, and what does fall is blown off of roofs and cars, sure there are the occasional wet snows, but very rare. As far as a house goes, I'd much rather use insulated concrete forms for a foundation, with 2x6 for the walls. The extra ~2" gives a lot more room for insulation. I wouldn't want skylights in my home either... The really add to convection losses in the winter, and the r value would be much less than a wall. Going this way over an earthen home you can avoid all the problems with moisture and mold. It's very hard to seal out moisture in subterarainian homes. The forms allow a barrier on both sides of the concrete, while adding to the r value. As far as the trailer goes, the r14 insulation all around and the fact that I planned on heating, sealing and insulating the underpinnings. I'm not really bothered by seasonal climates. Also, it's not a vent, it's just a fixed piece of plastic over a hole in the roof. There are two skylights and a vent, I just don't care for the skylights.715Views0likes0CommentsRe: 12v and 110v and techquestions
I don't plan on doing anything with the vent, it's a clear acrylic vent and it can easily act as a skylight. The skylight in the kitchen is rather large and to me unnecessary, I plan on staying at high elevations(9000ft+), where 30mph+ winds are common place, the UV from the sun will likely rot the tires and the sky lights in <5 years . I couldn't discern what material it actually was, it looked like PET at first glance, very pliable very thin. I'm not saying they won't hold up to the wind, just that I rather not hear it flap, I don't need it, and its possible that it may leak in after some years years. If it's any consolation, I don't like sun roofs on cars either.714Views0likes0CommentsRe: 12v and 110v and techquestions
The 200amp is for the 12v battery to 110v inverter, if I use 24v then it's 100amp. If you put a load device on a circuit, you have to build that circuit out for it. It was really getting up there when I was thinking about 3000watts, 300amps isn't that fun. If I put the inverter and the batteries under the bed in the pass through, I'm going to need SLA or lithium, or even NiMH but charging is an issue with other chemistries. I could put the batteries on the tongue, where the original is loaded, but I'm scared about tongue weight. I can't just tap into the existing 12v system without doing some upgrades. The disconnects, some wires and terminal connectors will likely have to be replaced/added. I can run the inverter in parallel off the terminal, then feed a ground line to it as well. Leaving the batteries on the outside I could use the standard deep cycle. In my mind it would be simpler to make a new circuit than to retrofit one to support an inverter. Like you said I won't know for sure until I get the thing. But it's good to have a well researched plan, I don't plan on doing this twice. I might very well go 12v with all the pressure on here. I'm crossing my fingers for august or September. As for the monocrystalline flexible cells, they are easy to just glue on your roof, and they can be found pretty cheap, they loose out to ridged panels because they can't be aimed.538Views0likes0CommentsRe: 12v and 110v and techquestions
Mr. Wizard, I plan on financing it. I have no debt, and only some cash. My budget for everything is around $25k, the trailer is listed for 16k. Yeah I'm going to finance it, wish I could tell you I am independently wealthy. Yeah I know there is a lot to matching lithium cells, and how one bad cell makes for a whole bad battery. I've only messed with a hybrid battery one time, and it was to basically test and replace all the bad cells with used cells from eBay that were a good match the cells in the pack. It's like a broad stroke, you end up buying a bunch of cells and hoping you get the 6 you need from the lot. Hybrid was in a Honda if I recall correctly, used sticks of D battery cells more or less. Dealerships will likely never take packs apart, it's very time intensive, even with automated charge testers, and batteries are almost a commodity. I wanted the separation of the two systems because I was going to use two disimilar batteries types SLA and a typical deep cycle., and I didn't want to deal with a 200amp setup and the safety of it. I've already talked myself down from a 3k watt inverter. At peak draw I assume I'd be a tick over 2000w. Some come with a 20sec surge rating of 6000watt. (makes me scratch my head). I never said I was going to cover the fan/remove it, I just said I wanted to ditch the skylights, they use like a 3mm film of plastic. It was deforming in the little wind I have here. Sure overhead light is nice, but there are lots of windows on the left side, one on the back, and the fan in the bathroom is probably adequate enough in the daylight to let light through.447Views0likes0CommentsRe: 12v and 110v and techquestions
hmmm... it doesn't like links... basically the list was: 6x 100 Watt Flexible Solar Panel with SunPower Solar Cells: SOL-100F-01 (I want to make sure they have diodes) 2x Duracell 12v 155AH SLA high rate batteries. 1x MidNite Solar Classic 200v MPPT Charge Controller and the tool was Morningstar's string calculator, which is very nice. pretty sure I will go with 24v to power the 110v inverter. and above for clarification I would have shore power, then in parallel have the 24v-> 110v inverter and the 12v systems charger feed from it,447Views0likes0CommentsRe: 12v and 110v and techquestions
Let me make a short Summary of what I am looking at, and some of the tools I have come across while learning about PV systems. So my list thus far: (6x) ***Link Removed*** (2x) ***Link Removed*** (I was really hoping a solution like Schnider's Ecoblade was on the market, PV compatable and built in inverter and incremental 5 kwh of Li-Ion batteries in a very light system... but SLA will work) (1x) ***Link Removed*** Still need a Inverter/charger/ UPS device. I really want to stay with a 24v setup...this system will be a completely separate system from the onboard 12v. Looking at >2000w with some surge capacity, hard wired 110v, UPS/quick transfer feature, charging, low power drain and a small form factor. Then all the little safety devices like disconnects, fuses, and rated connectors etc. I'm thinking Shore> 12v system charger > 24v or12v system- inverter/charger >110v Figured when on shore, I'd have the 12v system charge, and the inverter for the 110v could feed from that as well, but when its disconnected it could power the 110v. Some of the tools I've found are ***Link Removed*** midnight has one as well, but morning star has a large PV panel catalogue and multiple outcomes which makes it easier and faster to use than the others.447Views0likes0CommentsRe: 12v and 110v and techquestions
all of the of the MPPT controllers I saw out there(till today) only allowed for 35v-85v open circuit voltage from the panels. meaning I could stack about 2-3 panels in series and get really close to blowing up the MPPT from an over voltage event when it got cold out side, and possibly end up with a lot of amperage running through mC4 connectors. almost 6 amps a pannel(my goal is to slowly add pannels as long as there is space). The series configuration, to me in my mind would alow a much simpiler installation and avoid long runs of wire(the pannels would bridge the gaps) and avoid using heavy gauge wire by going to a higher system voltage. I did find find a controller with 72amps charge and a 150v input rating. meaning in theory I now could place 5 pannels in series with the 12v system, or about ~6 with the 24v.Before I was looking at all in one systems, as seen as part of some solar kits an inverter/charger/mppt for solar. by some really rough math, and unobstructed roof, I can put about 14 pannels, 2 widthwise by 7 length wise, minus the skylights, and the fan over the bath, which might whittle down to 11-12 pannels with some tetris skills. Overkill yes, but its an incrimental process, I figure which ever road I first start with I kind am stuck with. The midnight solar classic MPPT line I stumbled on, makes it possible for me to go 12v, I am still pondering the 24v, and yes I kicked the 48v idea. Half the wire diameter (in therory, could be very helpful at hiding it.) The original 12v system is going to remain separate from the Solar MPPT/Inverter/Charger setup, so 12v vs 24v will probably come down to price and a little bit of ease of wire management. ~$3500 for a 1200watt system with 3.72wh of storage (possible federal rebates?) My initial build will probably be $2500, or the full gambit if there are rebates.474Views0likes0CommentsRe: 12v and 110v and techquestions
Thanks for the input, I find it hard to believe how little information there is when it comes to rvs, no dimensions in the floor plans other than beds and awnings, no appliance list, one to 3 pictures shot from weird angles, and just vagueness. I've been looking to YouTube for most my answers/ pictures. I am at this point tempted to leave the existing 12v setup alone for simplicity, and doing an invert/charger 48v to power some of the 110v outlets. Figured id need to get some sealed batteries anyway to bring inside. I could then, if I wanted to run an mppt charger and run some power over to the 12v. Comparable ACs I looked at ran at 600-700watts(8000btu window unit), I'd have to look at their ratings closer to make sure I account for the stalled motor on start up. Again this is all in my head at this point, I figured if I ever had enough cells to do 48v, my total watt hours would be significant, I'm not really concerned about running the AC but I figure its low enough to be doable, it also not a concern because the location I would be in is pretty arid, so just being in the shade would be comfortable. I was looking at the thin film solar panels, I think they are roughly 42" x 22" for 100w, but their downside is their peek voltage is ~17.8v . With most 12v mppt chargers i am looking at sets of two in series, and large a amperage running through the wires. If I could have my way it would come without the skylights, the area I might be in is subject to a lot of high winds, I wouldn't want those thin skylights for that reason alone, figure they would pop in and out and annoy me while I sleep. That and leaks and I'm pretty sure the material they were using will degrade with UV light over time. I figured a solar setup would cost as much as a nice pure sine inverter generator, and be nearly silent, and give me the anchillary benifit of beefing up my electronics a bit. I'm not buying until I find what I want anyway, that and I'm not looking for anything till fall at the earliest.475Views0likes0Comments
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