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looktotheson

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Re: I'm confused - Suburban 1500 tow up to 7,500 lbs?
Crabbypatty wrote: We have the k2500 Suburban and towed 5000 dry probably 6000# loaded 27 ft Wilderness for 10 Years. Your making a mistake buying a 1500 as it is to light duty for that. So what does that mean? Breakdowns on the road, unsafe towing when you cant make grades or need to punch it to get out of harms way. Rethink what your doing and downsize yourtrailer or buy an older 3/4 ton tow vehicle. Having fun is a choice so are problems. Downsize to what size/weight?
May 06, 2015 Place Travel Trailer Group
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Re: I'm confused - Suburban 1500 tow up to 7,500 lbs?
Kalabin wrote: One thing to think of also is if your doing an extended long trip storage is going to be very important. That might have some sway as well with the camper as it's pretty easy to fill up smaller trailers. I had a Keystone Outback 21RS, then we "down graded" to an WolfCreek 850 slide in truck camper. One thing we always ran into was lack of storage, it wasn't bad at all for a weekend trip, but on our two week trip the cab of our truck got pretty full. Thanks Kablin, we will need to go through an exercise of pulling out what we would actually need for a 6 month trip and see about how much it all weighs and the volume it takes up.
May 06, 2015 Place Travel Trailer Group
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Re: I'm confused - Suburban 1500 tow up to 7,500 lbs?
BenK wrote: Here is how the ratings system works and looks like in graphical form Find the TV & TT ratings...then plug them into the simple math formula...tough part is gathering the info... howmuchcanitow howmuchshoulditow Thanks for that, this helps for us visual learners. I will use this formula to make sure I am within spec for the TV & TT with good wiggle room given that these are 10-12 year old vehicles I am looking at.
May 06, 2015 Place Travel Trailer Group
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Re: I'm confused - Suburban 1500 tow up to 7,500 lbs?
BenK wrote: Answer to the PM for everyone else here too Say that the OP is looking at at Half Ton SUV with a 12,500 GCWR It is a 7,100 lb GVWR SUV with a 4,250 RGAWR. Gross Vehicle Weight Rating and Rear Gross Axle Weight Rating It has a 7,500 lb MTWR, Max Tow Weight Rating But, that fine print on the brochure says 'curb', or 'base' or some such TV. One 150lb driver and 'necessary' option (tow option) & WD hitch Take the 12,500 GCWR minus the 7,500 MTWR = 5,000 and that is the vehicle/driver/option/WD Hitch/etc they used to derive that 7.5K MTWR Now take someone planning to full time for half a year or more They will need everything they need/want loaded into/onto both the TV and TT That 7,100 GVWR TV might then weigh in at close to 7,000 lbs...but that means the MTWR is bogus, as the MTWR is based on the 'curb', or 'base', or 'stripper' that weighs in around 5,000 lbs and the TV actually weighs in at 7,100 lbs So there is a 2,100 lb difference and that difference needs to be subtracted from the 7,500 MTWR = 5,400 lb as it's 'true' MTWR What I mean when say the MTWR is taken out of context. Or that folks take it as an absolute (meaning in all cases no matter what the TV actually weighs) In the example above...if the TV actually weighs in at 7,000 lbs BEFORE Hooking up, then it says that TV only has 100 lbs left for the tongue & WD Hitch system Of course this assumes believing in the ratings system. Also, this thread is for used trucks. The ratings numbers are for new or those still in the warranty period Depending on how the previous owner(s) treated the vehicle, it might still be good for it, or not... LOVE the math. What you say makes a lot of sense and is a very important point. With the Clipper there should be no problems. However, with 2 occupants in the vehicle and some other stuff that would ride in the vehicle with us, we would probably add another 500 lbs to the base weight of the car + gas. So lets say 6,000 lbs for total vehicle weight loaded, that only leaves us a little over 6,000 lbs for the trailer. Since the 192RBS has a GVWR of 5,900 lbs (although I'm sure we would be quite a bit under GVWR with only 1 week's worth of supplies) we would be potentially cutting it close....and "close" is not what I want to be reminded of 5,000 miles into our trip. Thanks for your very helpful posting! All of you have been very helpful, didn't realize how strong the RV.net community is.
May 06, 2015 Place Travel Trailer Group
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Re: I'm confused - Suburban 1500 tow up to 7,500 lbs?
Kalabin wrote: looktotheson wrote: Kalabin wrote: Just a quick look on Craigslist in Austin Texas came up with a 2000 Ford Excursion V10 for 5950. I have a 2001 Ford Excursion with the V10, and I can tell you I test drove a few before I settled on the one I have now. There's also a 2003 Ford Excursion V10 with 130k miles for 7500. Point being I think there are a lot more options out there than just a 1500. If I was towing for six months I would want my older rig based on 3/4-ton parts. If you can find a 2500 Suburban then spring on that, just keep your eyes open I think you will find a solid vehicle. As for reliability the Ford V10 is known for lasting longer than the body it's put on as long as it is maintained. The GM 6.0 is also another one that is a great long running motor. The bigger thing would be finding the 3/4-ton chassis of either the 2500 Suburban or Excursion for the additional payload, breaking and handling. While I would totally go for a 2500 in my price range if it was in good shape/mileage, as you know they are harder to find. I'm also thinking of the vehicles use beyond the 6 month trip. Right I need to buy a vehicle anyway, so I figured it would be the one that would be towing on our trip (which is at least 6 months away), so I will be daily driving it until then. I am test driving the Excursion tomorrow, but from my prior experiences with them, they seem rather large and more importantly, more expensive for the age/mileage than the burbs. The TTs I am anticipate towing are the Clipper (UVW 2,700 lbs and GVWR 3,500 lbs) and the Freedom Express 192RBS (UVW 3,800 lbs and GVWR of 6,000 lbs). Are you recommending the Excursion because "if your gonna get something, get something that gives you options" or because "the suburban really will struggle over a 6 month trip". I value your judgement, but when the GVWR of the heavier option is still 1-1.4K lbs under the burbs minimum tow capacity (I've read between 7,400 - 8,400 lbs depending on axle ratio), I guess I don't understand why I need to go to a bigger TV. If anyone can explain this, that would help. Thanks! Sorry for the delayed post. Based on your subject I thought you were wanting to push the 7,500lb mark with a GVWR of 7,500lb trailer. With a GVWR of 3500 or 6,000 any 1/2-ton will do. Thanks for the response. I started out wondering if I could use the Coachmen Clipper 17FQ (GVWR 3,500 lbs), Freedom Express 192RBS (GVWR 6,000 lbs), or the Freedom Express 246RKS (GVWR 7500 lbs). It seems apparent now that 246RKS is out of the equation. The 192RBS "might" work because as Marquette pointed out, for just 2 of us who are fairly light packers, there isn't a ton of extra weight (would figure out how to balance in trailer/TV if necessary). But the more we discuss it, the more we are leaning towards the Clipper as it is 1) more affordable 2) smaller/lighter which will also ensure we pack lighter 3) probably easier to maneuver. Also, we test drove 1 Ford Excursion and 3 Suburbans (1500). The Excursion just seemed too big for day to day (I am in those parking garages all the time) and was in pretty rough condition, the Suburbans I could see driving day-to-day, little lower mileage and very smooth (as some have pointed out, drives "car" like). So leaning towards the 'burb for now. Will continue to keep eye out for 2500, but glad to know that we'll be fine with the Clipper if nothing else.
May 06, 2015 Place Travel Trailer Group
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Re: I'm confused - Suburban 1500 tow up to 7,500 lbs?
Does me saying we are leaning towards the Clipper sized trailers (GVWR 3,500 lbs) change the conversation at all? That is half the tow capacity of the 1500 Burb. I understand there is more than just factors than just "will it pull". So with using half capacity, is that manageable for all aspects of the tow (engine, brakes, frame, etc.)? I have nothing against 2500s, just not as many. They are either beat up trucks or high mileage in my price range.
May 05, 2015 Place Travel Trailer Group
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Re: I'm confused - Suburban 1500 tow up to 7,500 lbs?
Kalabin wrote: Just a quick look on Craigslist in Austin Texas came up with a 2000 Ford Excursion V10 for 5950. I have a 2001 Ford Excursion with the V10, and I can tell you I test drove a few before I settled on the one I have now. There's also a 2003 Ford Excursion V10 with 130k miles for 7500. Point being I think there are a lot more options out there than just a 1500. If I was towing for six months I would want my older rig based on 3/4-ton parts. If you can find a 2500 Suburban then spring on that, just keep your eyes open I think you will find a solid vehicle. As for reliability the Ford V10 is known for lasting longer than the body it's put on as long as it is maintained. The GM 6.0 is also another one that is a great long running motor. The bigger thing would be finding the 3/4-ton chassis of either the 2500 Suburban or Excursion for the additional payload, breaking and handling. While I would totally go for a 2500 in my price range if it was in good shape/mileage, as you know they are harder to find. I'm also thinking of the vehicles use beyond the 6 month trip. Right I need to buy a vehicle anyway, so I figured it would be the one that would be towing on our trip (which is at least 6 months away), so I will be daily driving it until then. I am test driving the Excursion tomorrow, but from my prior experiences with them, they seem rather large and more importantly, more expensive for the age/mileage than the burbs. The TTs I am anticipate towing are the Clipper (UVW 2,700 lbs and GVWR 3,500 lbs) and the Freedom Express 192RBS (UVW 3,800 lbs and GVWR of 6,000 lbs). Are you recommending the Excursion because "if your gonna get something, get something that gives you options" or because "the suburban really will struggle over a 6 month trip". I value your judgement, but when the GVWR of the heavier option is still 1-1.4K lbs under the burbs minimum tow capacity (I've read between 7,400 - 8,400 lbs depending on axle ratio), I guess I don't understand why I need to go to a bigger TV. If anyone can explain this, that would help. Thanks!
May 05, 2015 Place Travel Trailer Group
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Re: I'm confused - Suburban 1500 tow up to 7,500 lbs?
Mark, thanks you have given me some confidence in the burb. I am going to look at 3 or 4 tomorrow afternoon. http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/5007425141.html http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/5008930383.html http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/4986768938.html http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/5008658830.html <-- excursion
May 05, 2015 Place Travel Trailer Group
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Re: I'm confused - Suburban 1500 tow up to 7,500 lbs?
APT, I was thinking about 8-15K (depending on clipper or Freedom Express) after negotiation. Again, she is just finishing up college, so we are wanting to do this trip, but can make sacrifices on TT size if it is going to kill out budget. For example, if the 5.3L Suburban can safely tow up to the 5,900 pound Freedom Express model, then that would be fine with us. But, if we are needing a bigger vehicle that is going to cost a couple grand more which would allow us to tow something bigger (which would also cost more), then we will just stay small. Heck most of our trip will be out exploring, so the quality of life in the TT isn't the biggest deciding factor. We are used to backpacking in a 2 person lightweight tent, so anything bigger than that and our Saturn is luxury :) I have also found several Ford Excursions in our budget, they don't seem to get much different MPG when towing, so that bigger engine doesn't seem to have any downfalls. The only consideration there is A) how do the Excursions hold to Suburbans in regards to reliability? B) sometime after the trip, I plan to resell the vehicle and I'd imagine the suburban will be an easier sell. The suburban also looks like something I wouldn't mind keeping if I had to, where as the Excursion just looks huge if I'm not going to be hauling people or toys around. Thanks guys, you are helping me think through this!
May 04, 2015 Place Travel Trailer Group
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Re: I'm confused - Suburban 1500 tow up to 7,500 lbs?
WOW, can I say THANK YOU all for the responses. I never imagined so much helpful advise within 8 hours of posting. So my wife and I are planning to buy the travel trailer & TV for a 6 month trip. After that we plan on selling them both (unless we like it so much we want to continue living in it short-term). So, we are hard set on paying cash, and thus would have to stick with a vehicle in our price range. However, we are willing to sacrifice the size of the trailer (even willing to go down to a clipper if necessary) so we could be potentially pulling a trailer with GVWR of 3,500 lbs if thats all we could do. However, the Coachmen Freedom Express 192RBS has UVW of 3,800 and GVWR of 5,900 lbs. Would this be more bearable to tow? My main concern is safety, if I have to go up hill slower, that's fine, as long as it isn't unsafe or because I'm on the verge of rolling back down! Also, thanks for the tips on the passenger vans, I will look into those as I could imagine they would be plenty of those for sale. From what I see online, it looks like the 1999 can't tow near as much (maybe max 6,000 lbs) as the 2000+ models. Is this right? By the way, anything wrong with going with the suburban/large SUV over a traditional truck like the Silverado? Like I said, I looked at them mostly because they seem to be cleaner and in better shape in our price range.
May 04, 2015 Place Travel Trailer Group
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You're not alone.","topicsCount:{\"ancestorId\":{\"eq\":\"community:feyqc97479\"},\"depth\":{},\"hidden\":{\"eq\":false},\"nodeType\":{\"eq\":\"grouphub\"},\"parentId\":{},\"userId\":{\"eq\":\"user:6587\"}}":44028,"messageActivity":{"__typename":"MessageActivity","corePropertyChangeTime":"2025-04-08T05:09:41.617-07:00"},"userContext":{"__typename":"NodeUserContext","canAddAttachments":false,"canUpdateNode":false,"canPostMessages":false,"isSubscribed":false}},"Rank:rank:42":{"__typename":"Rank","id":"rank:42","position":35,"name":"Explorer","color":"333333","icon":null,"rankStyle":"TEXT"},"AssociatedImage:{\"url\":\"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/images/YmctMi1zaTFFMGw\"}":{"__typename":"AssociatedImage","url":"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/images/YmctMi1zaTFFMGw"},"AssociatedImage:{\"url\":\"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/images/YmctOC1FZVNNUEk\"}":{"__typename":"AssociatedImage","url":"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/images/YmctOC1FZVNNUEk"},"AssociatedImage:{\"url\":\"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/images/YmctMTMtbWltUmJX\"}":{"__typename":"AssociatedImage","url":"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/images/YmctMTMtbWltUmJX"},"AssociatedImage:{\"url\":\"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/images/YmctMTgtMEJHb0ls\"}":{"__typename":"AssociatedImage","url":"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/images/YmctMTgtMEJHb0ls"},"AssociatedImage:{\"url\":\"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/images/YmctMjMtb0xsaG9n\"}":{"__typename":"AssociatedImage","url":"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/images/YmctMjMtb0xsaG9n"},"Category:category:RVTalk":{"__typename":"Category","id":"category:RVTalk","categoryPolicies":{"__typename":"CategoryPolicies","canReadNode":{"__typename":"PolicyResult","failureReason":null}}},"Forum:board:GetSupportAskQuestions":{"__typename":"Forum","id":"board:GetSupportAskQuestions","forumPolicies":{"__typename":"ForumPolicies","canReadNode":{"__typename":"PolicyResult","failureReason":null}},"boardPolicies":{"__typename":"BoardPolicies","canReadNode":{"__typename":"PolicyResult","failureReason":null}}},"Forum:board:CommunityFeedback":{"__typename":"Forum","id":"board:CommunityFeedback","forumPolicies":{"__typename":"ForumPolicies","canReadNode":{"__typename":"PolicyResult","failureReason":null}},"boardPolicies":{"__typename":"BoardPolicies","canReadNode":{"__typename":"PolicyResult","failureReason":null}}},"Blog:board:Announcements_Blog":{"__typename":"Blog","id":"board:Announcements_Blog","blogPolicies":{"__typename":"BlogPolicies","canReadNode":{"__typename":"PolicyResult","failureReason":null}},"boardPolicies":{"__typename":"BoardPolicies","canReadNode":{"__typename":"PolicyResult","failureReason":null}}},"Conversation:conversation:1758018":{"__typename":"Conversation","id":"conversation:1758018","topic":{"__typename":"ForumTopicMessage","uid":1758018},"lastPostingActivityTime":"2015-05-06T09:08:42.000-07:00","solved":false},"Forum:board:TravelTrailerforum-board":{"__typename":"Forum","id":"board:TravelTrailerforum-board","displayId":"TravelTrailerforum-board","nodeType":"board","conversationStyle":"FORUM","title":"Travel Trailer Group","shortTitle":"Forum","parent":{"__ref":"GroupHub:grouphub:TravelTrailer"}},"ForumReplyMessage:message:1758062":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","subject":"Re: I'm confused - Suburban 1500 tow up to 7,500 lbs?","conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:1758018"},"id":"message:1758062","revisionNum":1,"uid":1758062,"depth":1,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:TravelTrailerforum-board"},"author":{"__ref":"User:user:6587"},"metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":1576},"postTime":"2015-05-06T06:39:27.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2015-05-06T06:39:27.000-07:00","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":true,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":true,\"removeTocMarkup\":true,\"truncateLength\":-1})":" Crabbypatty wrote: We have the k2500 Suburban and towed 5000 dry probably 6000# loaded 27 ft Wilderness for 10 Years. Your making a mistake buying a 1500 as it is to light duty for that. So what does that mean? Breakdowns on the road, unsafe towing when you cant make grades or need to punch it to get out of harms way. Rethink what your doing and downsize yourtrailer or buy an older 3/4 ton tow vehicle. Having fun is a choice so are problems. Downsize to what size/weight?","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":true,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":true,\"removeTocMarkup\":true,\"truncateLength\":-1})@stringLength":"481","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"readOnly":false,"images":{"__typename":"AssociatedImageConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"videos":{"__typename":"VideoConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"ForumReplyMessage:message:1758060":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","subject":"Re: I'm confused - Suburban 1500 tow up to 7,500 lbs?","conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:1758018"},"id":"message:1758060","revisionNum":1,"uid":1758060,"depth":1,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:TravelTrailerforum-board"},"author":{"__ref":"User:user:6587"},"metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":1546},"postTime":"2015-05-05T22:39:27.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2015-05-05T22:39:27.000-07:00","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":true,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":true,\"removeTocMarkup\":true,\"truncateLength\":-1})":" Kalabin wrote: One thing to think of also is if your doing an extended long trip storage is going to be very important. That might have some sway as well with the camper as it's pretty easy to fill up smaller trailers. I had a Keystone Outback 21RS, then we \"down graded\" to an WolfCreek 850 slide in truck camper. One thing we always ran into was lack of storage, it wasn't bad at all for a weekend trip, but on our two week trip the cab of our truck got pretty full. Thanks Kablin, we will need to go through an exercise of pulling out what we would actually need for a 6 month trip and see about how much it all weighs and the volume it takes up.","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":true,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":true,\"removeTocMarkup\":true,\"truncateLength\":-1})@stringLength":"660","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"readOnly":false,"images":{"__typename":"AssociatedImageConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"videos":{"__typename":"VideoConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"ForumReplyMessage:message:1758059":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","subject":"Re: I'm confused - Suburban 1500 tow up to 7,500 lbs?","conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:1758018"},"id":"message:1758059","revisionNum":1,"uid":1758059,"depth":1,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:TravelTrailerforum-board"},"author":{"__ref":"User:user:6587"},"metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":1523},"postTime":"2015-05-05T22:37:21.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2015-05-05T22:37:21.000-07:00","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":true,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":true,\"removeTocMarkup\":true,\"truncateLength\":-1})":" BenK wrote: Here is how the ratings system works and looks like in graphical form Find the TV & TT ratings...then plug them into the simple math formula...tough part is gathering the info... howmuchcanitow howmuchshoulditow Thanks for that, this helps for us visual learners. I will use this formula to make sure I am within spec for the TV & TT with good wiggle room given that these are 10-12 year old vehicles I am looking at.","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":true,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":true,\"removeTocMarkup\":true,\"truncateLength\":-1})@stringLength":"453","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"readOnly":false,"images":{"__typename":"AssociatedImageConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"videos":{"__typename":"VideoConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"ForumReplyMessage:message:1758056":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","subject":"Re: I'm confused - Suburban 1500 tow up to 7,500 lbs?","conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:1758018"},"id":"message:1758056","revisionNum":1,"uid":1758056,"depth":1,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:TravelTrailerforum-board"},"author":{"__ref":"User:user:6587"},"metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":1523},"postTime":"2015-05-05T21:56:02.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2015-05-05T21:56:02.000-07:00","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":true,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":true,\"removeTocMarkup\":true,\"truncateLength\":-1})":" BenK wrote: Answer to the PM for everyone else here too Say that the OP is looking at at Half Ton SUV with a 12,500 GCWR It is a 7,100 lb GVWR SUV with a 4,250 RGAWR. Gross Vehicle Weight Rating and Rear Gross Axle Weight Rating It has a 7,500 lb MTWR, Max Tow Weight Rating But, that fine print on the brochure says 'curb', or 'base' or some such TV. One 150lb driver and 'necessary' option (tow option) & WD hitch Take the 12,500 GCWR minus the 7,500 MTWR = 5,000 and that is the vehicle/driver/option/WD Hitch/etc they used to derive that 7.5K MTWR Now take someone planning to full time for half a year or more They will need everything they need/want loaded into/onto both the TV and TT That 7,100 GVWR TV might then weigh in at close to 7,000 lbs...but that means the MTWR is bogus, as the MTWR is based on the 'curb', or 'base', or 'stripper' that weighs in around 5,000 lbs and the TV actually weighs in at 7,100 lbs So there is a 2,100 lb difference and that difference needs to be subtracted from the 7,500 MTWR = 5,400 lb as it's 'true' MTWR What I mean when say the MTWR is taken out of context. Or that folks take it as an absolute (meaning in all cases no matter what the TV actually weighs) In the example above...if the TV actually weighs in at 7,000 lbs BEFORE Hooking up, then it says that TV only has 100 lbs left for the tongue & WD Hitch system Of course this assumes believing in the ratings system. Also, this thread is for used trucks. The ratings numbers are for new or those still in the warranty period Depending on how the previous owner(s) treated the vehicle, it might still be good for it, or not... LOVE the math. What you say makes a lot of sense and is a very important point. With the Clipper there should be no problems. However, with 2 occupants in the vehicle and some other stuff that would ride in the vehicle with us, we would probably add another 500 lbs to the base weight of the car + gas. So lets say 6,000 lbs for total vehicle weight loaded, that only leaves us a little over 6,000 lbs for the trailer. Since the 192RBS has a GVWR of 5,900 lbs (although I'm sure we would be quite a bit under GVWR with only 1 week's worth of supplies) we would be potentially cutting it close....and \"close\" is not what I want to be reminded of 5,000 miles into our trip. Thanks for your very helpful posting! All of you have been very helpful, didn't realize how strong the RV.net community is.","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":true,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":true,\"removeTocMarkup\":true,\"truncateLength\":-1})@stringLength":"2509","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"readOnly":false,"images":{"__typename":"AssociatedImageConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"videos":{"__typename":"VideoConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"ForumReplyMessage:message:1758055":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","subject":"Re: I'm confused - Suburban 1500 tow up to 7,500 lbs?","conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:1758018"},"id":"message:1758055","revisionNum":1,"uid":1758055,"depth":1,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:TravelTrailerforum-board"},"author":{"__ref":"User:user:6587"},"metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":1524},"postTime":"2015-05-05T21:36:37.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2015-05-05T21:36:37.000-07:00","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":true,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":true,\"removeTocMarkup\":true,\"truncateLength\":-1})":" Kalabin wrote: looktotheson wrote: Kalabin wrote: Just a quick look on Craigslist in Austin Texas came up with a 2000 Ford Excursion V10 for 5950. I have a 2001 Ford Excursion with the V10, and I can tell you I test drove a few before I settled on the one I have now. There's also a 2003 Ford Excursion V10 with 130k miles for 7500. Point being I think there are a lot more options out there than just a 1500. If I was towing for six months I would want my older rig based on 3/4-ton parts. If you can find a 2500 Suburban then spring on that, just keep your eyes open I think you will find a solid vehicle. As for reliability the Ford V10 is known for lasting longer than the body it's put on as long as it is maintained. The GM 6.0 is also another one that is a great long running motor. The bigger thing would be finding the 3/4-ton chassis of either the 2500 Suburban or Excursion for the additional payload, breaking and handling. While I would totally go for a 2500 in my price range if it was in good shape/mileage, as you know they are harder to find. I'm also thinking of the vehicles use beyond the 6 month trip. Right I need to buy a vehicle anyway, so I figured it would be the one that would be towing on our trip (which is at least 6 months away), so I will be daily driving it until then. I am test driving the Excursion tomorrow, but from my prior experiences with them, they seem rather large and more importantly, more expensive for the age/mileage than the burbs. The TTs I am anticipate towing are the Clipper (UVW 2,700 lbs and GVWR 3,500 lbs) and the Freedom Express 192RBS (UVW 3,800 lbs and GVWR of 6,000 lbs). Are you recommending the Excursion because \"if your gonna get something, get something that gives you options\" or because \"the suburban really will struggle over a 6 month trip\". I value your judgement, but when the GVWR of the heavier option is still 1-1.4K lbs under the burbs minimum tow capacity (I've read between 7,400 - 8,400 lbs depending on axle ratio), I guess I don't understand why I need to go to a bigger TV. If anyone can explain this, that would help. Thanks! Sorry for the delayed post. Based on your subject I thought you were wanting to push the 7,500lb mark with a GVWR of 7,500lb trailer. With a GVWR of 3500 or 6,000 any 1/2-ton will do. Thanks for the response. I started out wondering if I could use the Coachmen Clipper 17FQ (GVWR 3,500 lbs), Freedom Express 192RBS (GVWR 6,000 lbs), or the Freedom Express 246RKS (GVWR 7500 lbs). It seems apparent now that 246RKS is out of the equation. The 192RBS \"might\" work because as Marquette pointed out, for just 2 of us who are fairly light packers, there isn't a ton of extra weight (would figure out how to balance in trailer/TV if necessary). But the more we discuss it, the more we are leaning towards the Clipper as it is 1) more affordable 2) smaller/lighter which will also ensure we pack lighter 3) probably easier to maneuver. Also, we test drove 1 Ford Excursion and 3 Suburbans (1500). The Excursion just seemed too big for day to day (I am in those parking garages all the time) and was in pretty rough condition, the Suburbans I could see driving day-to-day, little lower mileage and very smooth (as some have pointed out, drives \"car\" like). So leaning towards the 'burb for now. Will continue to keep eye out for 2500, but glad to know that we'll be fine with the Clipper if nothing else.","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":true,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":true,\"removeTocMarkup\":true,\"truncateLength\":-1})@stringLength":"3447","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"readOnly":false,"images":{"__typename":"AssociatedImageConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"videos":{"__typename":"VideoConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"ForumReplyMessage:message:1758049":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","subject":"Re: I'm confused - Suburban 1500 tow up to 7,500 lbs?","conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:1758018"},"id":"message:1758049","revisionNum":1,"uid":1758049,"depth":1,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:TravelTrailerforum-board"},"author":{"__ref":"User:user:6587"},"metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":383},"postTime":"2015-05-05T09:42:46.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2015-05-05T09:42:46.000-07:00","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":true,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":true,\"removeTocMarkup\":true,\"truncateLength\":-1})":"Does me saying we are leaning towards the Clipper sized trailers (GVWR 3,500 lbs) change the conversation at all? That is half the tow capacity of the 1500 Burb. I understand there is more than just factors than just \"will it pull\". So with using half capacity, is that manageable for all aspects of the tow (engine, brakes, frame, etc.)? I have nothing against 2500s, just not as many. They are either beat up trucks or high mileage in my price range.","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":true,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":true,\"removeTocMarkup\":true,\"truncateLength\":-1})@stringLength":"452","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"readOnly":false,"images":{"__typename":"AssociatedImageConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"videos":{"__typename":"VideoConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"ForumReplyMessage:message:1758045":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","subject":"Re: I'm confused - Suburban 1500 tow up to 7,500 lbs?","conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:1758018"},"id":"message:1758045","revisionNum":1,"uid":1758045,"depth":1,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:TravelTrailerforum-board"},"author":{"__ref":"User:user:6587"},"metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":226},"postTime":"2015-05-04T23:13:23.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2015-05-04T23:13:23.000-07:00","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":true,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":true,\"removeTocMarkup\":true,\"truncateLength\":-1})":" Kalabin wrote: Just a quick look on Craigslist in Austin Texas came up with a 2000 Ford Excursion V10 for 5950. I have a 2001 Ford Excursion with the V10, and I can tell you I test drove a few before I settled on the one I have now. There's also a 2003 Ford Excursion V10 with 130k miles for 7500. Point being I think there are a lot more options out there than just a 1500. If I was towing for six months I would want my older rig based on 3/4-ton parts. If you can find a 2500 Suburban then spring on that, just keep your eyes open I think you will find a solid vehicle. As for reliability the Ford V10 is known for lasting longer than the body it's put on as long as it is maintained. The GM 6.0 is also another one that is a great long running motor. The bigger thing would be finding the 3/4-ton chassis of either the 2500 Suburban or Excursion for the additional payload, breaking and handling. While I would totally go for a 2500 in my price range if it was in good shape/mileage, as you know they are harder to find. I'm also thinking of the vehicles use beyond the 6 month trip. Right I need to buy a vehicle anyway, so I figured it would be the one that would be towing on our trip (which is at least 6 months away), so I will be daily driving it until then. I am test driving the Excursion tomorrow, but from my prior experiences with them, they seem rather large and more importantly, more expensive for the age/mileage than the burbs. The TTs I am anticipate towing are the Clipper (UVW 2,700 lbs and GVWR 3,500 lbs) and the Freedom Express 192RBS (UVW 3,800 lbs and GVWR of 6,000 lbs). Are you recommending the Excursion because \"if your gonna get something, get something that gives you options\" or because \"the suburban really will struggle over a 6 month trip\". I value your judgement, but when the GVWR of the heavier option is still 1-1.4K lbs under the burbs minimum tow capacity (I've read between 7,400 - 8,400 lbs depending on axle ratio), I guess I don't understand why I need to go to a bigger TV. If anyone can explain this, that would help. Thanks!","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":true,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":true,\"removeTocMarkup\":true,\"truncateLength\":-1})@stringLength":"2096","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"readOnly":false,"images":{"__typename":"AssociatedImageConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"videos":{"__typename":"VideoConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"ForumReplyMessage:message:1758042":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","subject":"Re: I'm confused - Suburban 1500 tow up to 7,500 lbs?","conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:1758018"},"id":"message:1758042","revisionNum":1,"uid":1758042,"depth":1,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:TravelTrailerforum-board"},"author":{"__ref":"User:user:6587"},"metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":228},"postTime":"2015-05-04T21:04:19.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2015-05-04T21:04:19.000-07:00","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":true,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":true,\"removeTocMarkup\":true,\"truncateLength\":-1})":"Mark, thanks you have given me some confidence in the burb. I am going to look at 3 or 4 tomorrow afternoon. http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/5007425141.html http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/5008930383.html http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/4986768938.html http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/5008658830.html <-- excursion","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":true,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":true,\"removeTocMarkup\":true,\"truncateLength\":-1})@stringLength":"337","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"readOnly":false,"images":{"__typename":"AssociatedImageConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"videos":{"__typename":"VideoConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"ForumReplyMessage:message:1758038":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","subject":"Re: I'm confused - Suburban 1500 tow up to 7,500 lbs?","conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:1758018"},"id":"message:1758038","revisionNum":1,"uid":1758038,"depth":1,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:TravelTrailerforum-board"},"author":{"__ref":"User:user:6587"},"metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":226},"postTime":"2015-05-04T14:19:32.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2015-05-04T14:19:32.000-07:00","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":true,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":true,\"removeTocMarkup\":true,\"truncateLength\":-1})":"APT, I was thinking about 8-15K (depending on clipper or Freedom Express) after negotiation. Again, she is just finishing up college, so we are wanting to do this trip, but can make sacrifices on TT size if it is going to kill out budget. For example, if the 5.3L Suburban can safely tow up to the 5,900 pound Freedom Express model, then that would be fine with us. But, if we are needing a bigger vehicle that is going to cost a couple grand more which would allow us to tow something bigger (which would also cost more), then we will just stay small. Heck most of our trip will be out exploring, so the quality of life in the TT isn't the biggest deciding factor. We are used to backpacking in a 2 person lightweight tent, so anything bigger than that and our Saturn is luxury :) I have also found several Ford Excursions in our budget, they don't seem to get much different MPG when towing, so that bigger engine doesn't seem to have any downfalls. The only consideration there is A) how do the Excursions hold to Suburbans in regards to reliability? B) sometime after the trip, I plan to resell the vehicle and I'd imagine the suburban will be an easier sell. The suburban also looks like something I wouldn't mind keeping if I had to, where as the Excursion just looks huge if I'm not going to be hauling people or toys around. Thanks guys, you are helping me think through this!","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":true,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":true,\"removeTocMarkup\":true,\"truncateLength\":-1})@stringLength":"1390","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"readOnly":false,"images":{"__typename":"AssociatedImageConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"videos":{"__typename":"VideoConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"ForumReplyMessage:message:1758035":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","subject":"Re: I'm confused - Suburban 1500 tow up to 7,500 lbs?","conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:1758018"},"id":"message:1758035","revisionNum":1,"uid":1758035,"depth":1,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:TravelTrailerforum-board"},"author":{"__ref":"User:user:6587"},"metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":226},"postTime":"2015-05-04T09:06:57.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2015-05-04T09:06:57.000-07:00","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":true,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":true,\"removeTocMarkup\":true,\"truncateLength\":-1})":"WOW, can I say THANK YOU all for the responses. I never imagined so much helpful advise within 8 hours of posting. So my wife and I are planning to buy the travel trailer & TV for a 6 month trip. After that we plan on selling them both (unless we like it so much we want to continue living in it short-term). So, we are hard set on paying cash, and thus would have to stick with a vehicle in our price range. However, we are willing to sacrifice the size of the trailer (even willing to go down to a clipper if necessary) so we could be potentially pulling a trailer with GVWR of 3,500 lbs if thats all we could do. However, the Coachmen Freedom Express 192RBS has UVW of 3,800 and GVWR of 5,900 lbs. Would this be more bearable to tow? My main concern is safety, if I have to go up hill slower, that's fine, as long as it isn't unsafe or because I'm on the verge of rolling back down! Also, thanks for the tips on the passenger vans, I will look into those as I could imagine they would be plenty of those for sale. From what I see online, it looks like the 1999 can't tow near as much (maybe max 6,000 lbs) as the 2000+ models. Is this right? By the way, anything wrong with going with the suburban/large SUV over a traditional truck like the Silverado? Like I said, I looked at them mostly because they seem to be cleaner and in better shape in our price range.","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":true,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":true,\"removeTocMarkup\":true,\"truncateLength\":-1})@stringLength":"1375","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"readOnly":false,"images":{"__typename":"AssociatedImageConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"videos":{"__typename":"VideoConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"CachedAsset:text:en_US-components/community/Navbar-1741694506000":{"__typename":"CachedAsset","id":"text:en_US-components/community/Navbar-1741694506000","value":{"community":"Community Home","inbox":"Inbox","manageContent":"Manage Content","tos":"Terms of Service","forgotPassword":"Forgot Password","themeEditor":"Theme Editor","edit":"Edit Navigation Bar","skipContent":"Skip to content","rv-owners-link":"RV Owner Groups","groups-link":"Groups","migrated-link-7":"Good Sam Home ","community-feedback-link":"Community Feedback","migrated-link-8":"My Rewards","Common-community-feedback-link":"Community Feedback","migrated-link-1":"Groups","customer-support-link-1":"Customer Support","Common-announcements_blog-link":"Announcements","customer-support-link":"Resources","Common-get-support-ask-questions-link":"Customer Support","Common-external-link":"Events","migrated-link-0":"Forums","migrated-link-3":"Resources","announcements_blog-link":"Announcements","r-v-t-e-c-h-link":"Test ","Common-admin-mods-private-link":"Admin & Mods (Private)","fifth-wheelsforum-board-link":"Fifth Wheels Owners","events-link":"Events","external-link":"Good Sam Home"},"localOverride":false},"CachedAsset:text:en_US-components/community/NavbarHamburgerDropdown-1741694506000":{"__typename":"CachedAsset","id":"text:en_US-components/community/NavbarHamburgerDropdown-1741694506000","value":{"hamburgerLabel":"Side Menu"},"localOverride":false},"CachedAsset:text:en_US-components/community/BrandLogo-1741694506000":{"__typename":"CachedAsset","id":"text:en_US-components/community/BrandLogo-1741694506000","value":{"logoAlt":"Khoros","themeLogoAlt":"Brand Logo"},"localOverride":false},"CachedAsset:text:en_US-components/community/NavbarTextLinks-1741694506000":{"__typename":"CachedAsset","id":"text:en_US-components/community/NavbarTextLinks-1741694506000","value":{"more":"More"},"localOverride":false},"CachedAsset:text:en_US-components/search/SpotlightSearchIcon-1741694506000":{"__typename":"CachedAsset","id":"text:en_US-components/search/SpotlightSearchIcon-1741694506000","value":{"search":"Search"},"localOverride":false},"CachedAsset:text:en_US-components/authentication/AuthenticationLink-1741694506000":{"__typename":"CachedAsset","id":"text:en_US-components/authentication/AuthenticationLink-1741694506000","value":{"title.login":"Sign In or Register","title.registration":"Register","title.forgotPassword":"Forgot Password","title.multiAuthLogin":"Sign In or Register"},"localOverride":false},"CachedAsset:text:en_US-components/nodes/NodeLink-1741694506000":{"__typename":"CachedAsset","id":"text:en_US-components/nodes/NodeLink-1741694506000","value":{"place":"Place {name}"},"localOverride":false},"CachedAsset:text:en_US-components/users/UserProfileActionMenu-1741694506000":{"__typename":"CachedAsset","id":"text:en_US-components/users/UserProfileActionMenu-1741694506000","value":{"toggleButtonLabel":"Open Menu","userSettings.setEmailAsVerified":"Set Email as Verified","userSettings.adminNotes":"Admin Notes","setUserEmailVerified.errorTitle":"Error - Action Failed","setUserEmailVerified.errorMessage":"An unidentified problem occurred during the action you took. 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