msturtz
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Re: Do you always need an RV Park ? .....
We routinely "boondock" or camp without hookups outside of RV parks. We used to do this with a towable and that was much more difficult but still rewarding. We did it with our Class C and now Class A DP. We actually plan a few days of boondocking into our trips to make the outgoing and return trips less stressful. It does require some preparation i.e. have enough water, make sure the grey / black tanks are empty.518Views0likes0CommentsRe: Class A travel without interstates
We used to have towable units our last one was supposed to be a 29' but in reality was actually 36' front to back including tongue and bumper. We towed it with a one ton long box crew cab truck that was 22' long. This means we were 58' long. I parallel parked in downtown areas and it was a nightmare. We then got a Class C 31' but in reality it was 33.5'. The real bummer was that it had a 218" wheel base and a 45 degree wheel cut. This meant that it had a terrible turning radius. The combination of the 45 degree wheel cut and the 218" wheelbase made turning bad. However we finally got a Class A unit which is 33.3' but is actually 34.5' long with a 208" wheelbase and a 55 degree wheel cut. Turning around is vastly easier. So, we have found that driving the Class A motorhome is so much easier, less stressful, easier to park combined with the more comfortable ride. We travel in two different modes with a toad and without. If we are touring and sightseeing without a destination or park we choose to go toadless to be more maneuverable this includes touring small towns. We have done this with a toad but due to the toad we have to be more careful because we can't back up. So, go for it and have fun!550Views0likes0CommentsRe: Resent 2016-2019 Jayco qualiity?
DownTheAvenue wrote: msturtz wrote: Get everything in writing period. Don’t pay any attention to anything anyone tells you that isn’t in writing. If someone tells promises something verbally follow up with an email to that person confirming the contemporaneous conversation. While there is a lot of good information in this post, this section is completely wrong. I can tell you as an attorney this is incorrect. Because you send an email to someone "confirming" what they said does not mean they actually said it, or if they did if you did not misunderstand and your email then contains your misunderstanding. Most states have laws that specifically disallow any verbal contractual agreements. Unless it is in writing with both party's signature, you do not have an enforceable agreement. Another thing to consider is if the signor for the company has the authority to make the commitment. You are absolutely correct that an email follow up confirming a verbal representation does not create or modify a verbal contract. Not only do many states disallow verbal contracts every purchase and sales agreement that I have seen does as well. However, what I was referring to are representations of material fact to induce me to purchase the RV or vehicle. For example I have had sales people state “…yes the rig has a locking differential or electronic limited slip…” or “…yes the rig has a spare tire…” or “…yes we will replace all the batteries with new prior to delivery…” when in fact we discovered post-delivery that it did not. I have had many cases where a salesperson told me something that ended up not being true but because I documented to them in an email confirming the verbal conversation the company honored what they said. Now, there have been things that were so important to me that while in the F&I office I hand write what we actually agreed to such as optional components or features of a particular vehicle that were material to the purchase. The F&I manager usually doesn’t like it but I have never had them kill a deal because I insisted that they document on the agreement our complete agreement. When normal people take 15 – 20 minutes in the F&I office we have taken 1 – 2 hours because we read the entire contract and insist that everything be documented for the terms and conditions of the entire deal. I refuse to even accept the “we owe” paperwork stand alone because of the “…entire agreement…” clauses baked into some purchase agreements. If the dealer does what they say they would do and the vehicle includes exactly what the sales person stated it does then everything is great. I can tell you I have literally had a member of a dealership senior management in front of me and call a salesperson and the sales person lie to them and state that they never said the vehicle had that feature. Then I calmly pull out the email thread to that exact salesperson that was sent contemporaneous to the stated conversation. That didn’t go well for the sales person. Because I had the documentation and proof of what I was told they couldn’t dispute it. Again, yes for anything covered under the terms of a written agreement cannot be modified by anything verbal. However, at least for representations other than sales puffery it can’t hurt to have it in writing. Usually, I ask that the sales person reply to confirm what was discussed to avert any dispute.700Views0likes0CommentsRe: Resent 2016-2019 Jayco qualiity?
We had a Jayco towable and were very happy with it. The quality was good and we used it a lot. We made the mistake of purchasing a Jayco Motorized without really considering other brands. Jayco's motorized units are much more expensive than other comparable units. The mistake we made is in assuming that the quality carried over from their towable units. Worse yet their customer service was a complete disaster. Here is the bottom line from our experience from purchasing multiple RVS. Regardless of the brand pay for a complete pre-purchase inspection. It should cost between $400 - $800. Make the purchase contingent on the inspection. Don’t warn the RV seller or dealer that you are having a formal pre-purchase inspection. After you have an agreed price and deal but before you sign or take final delivery tell them you need to have a day with the unit to measure the drawers and other things for ordering anti-skid mats and other things for the unit. You can tell them that you need a weight from a certified scale with all the tanks full that way they will fill the water tanks and have all the plumbing working for your inspection. You can insist on this. Many units are overweight before you even load your stuff! Get everything in writing period. Don’t pay any attention to anything anyone tells you that isn’t in writing. If someone tells promises something verbally follow up with an email to that person confirming the contemporaneous conversation. Finally, expect that the unit you like – regardless of manufacturer – will have flaws such as loose screws, water leaks, broken drawers, malfunctioning equipment, incorrectly installed or wired components. Don’t get discouraged this is all normal for hand built units as complex as RVs. The independent pre-purchase inspection gives you leverage to ensure that everything is the way you expect and or get commitments from the seller as to timeframes as to when you will actually be able to use the unit. Alternatively, you may chose to tell the seller that you will finalize the deal and take delivery after the list of items has been fixed. That way you are not paying for a unit that you can’t use and its stuck in the shop for months on end because they have no motivation to get it fixed quickly. The RV dealers don’t fix RVs that have problems when they are sitting on their lot for sale. They wait for them to be sold and then they fix the defects. Our current unit spent a lot of time in the shop in the first two years (Not a Jayco!) but now that everything is fixed we are happy with it.701Views0likes0CommentsRe: Pros and Cons of owning a class A RV
tomman58 wrote: msturtz wrote: tomman58 wrote: Almost everything I read here I can do with my 40" TT. I have had to hook up in the rain (20 minutes tops)but most of the time if we are leaving in the morning I pull in the slides except the bedroom and unhook the sewer and water AND TV THE NIGHT BEFORE( ALL OF WHICH YOU HAVE TO DISCONNECT IN A MH.) Our water and toilet work of course when we are between sites. Our trailer has auto level so I just push a button and when we reconnect it raises the gear and puts the tongue at the hook up level. We have almost zero costs and the tires which we replace after 60,000 miles are about 500 bucks in a Class A they can run 2400 bucks and the other maintenance is also expense and not readily available in several areas and God help you if you need something major as it can be weeks for the repair. The only other thing I can think of as a deterrent is the space my TT slides open further and I have more usable space. Lastly is cost my TT costs 48000 how much is a MH? 180 to 500 thousand that is a large investment almost as bad as owing a sailboat!!. Your TT seems very nice. To be safe I had a $3000 Hensley hitch which adds cost. Your point about tires being less expensive is correct however I went through about 6 tires in 10 years in my towable unit because the ST tires are not made to the same standards that Motorhome tires are. With my motorhome if the weather is going to be poor I routinely disconnect everything but power since it has 110 gallons of fresh water and a 50 gallons black and grey capacity. With automatic generator start I don't worry about requiring power. We spent over 3 days dry camping in 100F heat in a farmer's field with the ACs running. I could not have done that period with a TT. I would have had to refill both water and gasoline for the generator at least once. We had a situation with our motorhome when the power went out and the AGS system kicked the generator on automatically and the rig was nice and cool and the batteries were not dead. I know of very few towable units that have this technology. It isn't that it isn't possible. My point is that if the fewer features available in the towable market work for a person then great it can be much less expensive, however if you want or desire the more advanced features available in the motorized market then that can be a good value as well because by the time you add all the features you get with a motorized unit to a towable unit you are in the same price range with the same features. Bottom line feature for feature, item for item if you have equivalent features both platforms cost a similar amount. Now if a person already has a suitable truck then the equation changes quite a bit. Each person's situation is different. For us, we couldn't handle a towable due to our kids being born prematurely. In addition, I have some health issues that make handling the extra work of a towable harder to do. We have found that we make many more trips than we ever did with a towable because it is so much easier. Even with a toad I can be hooked up and ready to go in a few minutes where with a trailer this isn't even close, it takes a long time to get hooked up and ready to leave. Never needed a Hensley. My hitch has been on 6 TT. your excuses for having a Class A are noted but not the rule. A Class A is not even close in cost. 250,000 compared to 48000 for a TT is not even close. As for my truck it has uses other than camping and is needed for my runs up the slab to our northern house. If you want to time a hook up with me you had better practice often, we put on 1000's of miles a year as I can normally be on the road is 20 minutes in an rain storm. Tires are far better now and as for weather that is what GPS was invented for .... to miss the big issues on the road. I'm sorry but quoting made up numbers for the cost of a motorhome is not helpful to the OP. Our current DP we purchased new was being advertised when we bought it for about $130K. Used is much less. We priced out a new diesel truck plus the extra fuel tank etc. and the cost was well over $75K, an equivalent towable with auto level and generator, glass wall, satellite, 2K inverter, AGS, massive battery bank, residential refrigerator etc. costs upwards of $100K depending on model. A gas class A can be had for less much much less than we paid for our DP. There is a huge spread between the asking price and the actual sale price when it comes to motorized. I had a very difficult time getting much of a discount on the towable unit. We did get a good deal. Bottom line we have purchased multiple towable units and motorized units. We have the actual experience for both to reliably comment rather than speculate. There are pros and cons to both depending on the use case of a particular user and I would recommend either depending on who I was talking with and what they wanted to do with it. However, blanket statements that motorized units are "always more expensive" simply are not true. It is fairly easy to find a cheap stick and tin towable on a loss leader for sale to compare to a Prevost and that is a nonsensical comparison that helps no one. What people really need is to understand the features and benefits of each platform as well as the costs of both. Sometimes the additional costs justify the additional expense in either situation. A side note on the Hensley hitch I would never have another towable without one. It is absolutely impossible to jackknife a towable with a Hensley Hitch. They operate on a 4 bar method which mechanically prevents the trailer from turning separately from the tow vehicle. We were coming back from a camping trip and got caught in a major snow storm. We were on compact snow and ice. On my one ton truck I had studded snow tires however that doesn't help with the trailer. When I had an emergency full ABS stop because I was cut off by another driver the trailer never came around the truck as it would have if I had not had a Hensley Hitch. I can't recommend them enough. They are expensive but worth every penny.1.3KViews0likes0CommentsRe: Pros and Cons of owning a class A RV
tomman58 wrote: Almost everything I read here I can do with my 40" TT. I have had to hook up in the rain (20 minutes tops)but most of the time if we are leaving in the morning I pull in the slides except the bedroom and unhook the sewer and water AND TV THE NIGHT BEFORE( ALL OF WHICH YOU HAVE TO DISCONNECT IN A MH.) Our water and toilet work of course when we are between sites. Our trailer has auto level so I just push a button and when we reconnect it raises the gear and puts the tongue at the hook up level. We have almost zero costs and the tires which we replace after 60,000 miles are about 500 bucks in a Class A they can run 2400 bucks and the other maintenance is also expense and not readily available in several areas and God help you if you need something major as it can be weeks for the repair. The only other thing I can think of as a deterrent is the space my TT slides open further and I have more usable space. Lastly is cost my TT costs 48000 how much is a MH? 180 to 500 thousand that is a large investment almost as bad as owing a sailboat!!. Your TT seems very nice. To be safe I had a $3000 Hensley hitch which adds cost. Your point about tires being less expensive is correct however I went through about 6 tires in 10 years in my towable unit because the ST tires are not made to the same standards that Motorhome tires are. With my motorhome if the weather is going to be poor I routinely disconnect everything but power since it has 110 gallons of fresh water and a 50 gallons black and grey capacity. With automatic generator start I don't worry about requiring power. We spent over 3 days dry camping in 100F heat in a farmer's field with the ACs running. I could not have done that period with a TT. I would have had to refill both water and gasoline for the generator at least once. We had a situation with our motorhome when the power went out and the AGS system kicked the generator on automatically and the rig was nice and cool and the batteries were not dead. I know of very few towable units that have this technology. It isn't that it isn't possible. My point is that if the fewer features available in the towable market work for a person then great it can be much less expensive, however if you want or desire the more advanced features available in the motorized market then that can be a good value as well because by the time you add all the features you get with a motorized unit to a towable unit you are in the same price range with the same features. Bottom line feature for feature, item for item if you have equivalent features both platforms cost a similar amount. Now if a person already has a suitable truck then the equation changes quite a bit. Each person's situation is different. For us, we couldn't handle a towable due to our kids being born prematurely. In addition, I have some health issues that make handling the extra work of a towable harder to do. We have found that we make many more trips than we ever did with a towable because it is so much easier. Even with a toad I can be hooked up and ready to go in a few minutes where with a trailer this isn't even close, it takes a long time to get hooked up and ready to leave.1.3KViews0likes0CommentsRe: Pros and Cons of owning a class A RV
crawford wrote: in a advent you need to evacuate my class A ready to go with my whole family yes my husky's are my family also i left no one behind. I keep can foods bottle water.fuel with treatment full,cloths,Locked box with copy of important papers needed. Up to date maps, Up to date,weather radio,Up to date GPS. You never know If fire, storms,Floods or a great get away may happen but which ever happen remember restock . This is exactly what we do! :) We keep the water tank full, stocked with sealed shelf stable non-perishable food, and at least two cases of bottled water. We also keep clothes and other critical items in the rig. If we have a major Cascadia Earthquake we will be ready! I did try to keep the trailer ready before we had the motorhome however since it took so long to hook up to move it wasn't nearly as "ready" as I would have liked. Funny anecdote, when my daughter was younger and had piano lessons I used to drop her off with the RV so I could sit in comfort and watch TV while I was waiting for her to get done. I would never ever consider doing that with a towable. We also sometimes use the motorhome for day trips simply because it is so much more comfortable than riding in a SUV or car. We did the same thing when we were touring a national park when our twins were still infants and required feeding and changing every hour or so. We just dropped the connections on the ground and left camp. Parking was harder but we didn't have any problems seeing what we wanted to. Never, not one time did we ever do this kind of stuff when we had a towable. It was simply too much work!361Views0likes0CommentsRe: Pros and Cons of owning a class A RV
DallasSteve wrote: msturtz wrote: The problem is that the listed 5th wheel towable unit is in no way equipped similarly to a Class A. There is a reason for the apparent price difference. For example the motorhomes come with an onboard generator and usually have a large battery bank and inverter. No one is disputing that an inexpensive 5th wheel plus the equivalent of a work truck can be purchased that costs much less than a motorhome however you are not comparing the same things either. Option for option feature for feature. Does the motorhome have an automatic leveling system? Then so should the 5th wheel trailer. I can tell you from personal experience that riding in a work truck and riding in any motorhome is not equivalent either. Nor is the fuel range equivalent either without aftermarket additional tanks which I added to my setup. The F350 gas may only have a 40 gallon fuel tank at most the motorhome has a 80 gallon fuel tank. I know about these limitations because I lived it. I used to have to carry many gas cans with me till I installed the auxiliary fuel tank. Again in any comparison it is important to consider all the facts. Since I have built a great towable setup before we got our motorhome I am acutely aware of the difference in features between both platforms. Bottom line is that it depends on the individual requirements of the person using the equipment. I have a CDL and work for a heavy truck manufacturer I look at an RV like any other tool. I try to determine what our requirements are first and then look for most logical solution that fits within the budget. I did a cursory check for 5th wheels on RV trader equipped with generators and residential refrigerators and the discounted prices start at about $90k. I am assuming that they have automatic leveling systems. I think you're "moving the goalposts". I don't see a residential fridge in the $90K class A units I searched so they are comparable to the fivers. Do they have generators? Probably. Does that close the $40K difference in my example? Hardly. I agree with Lantley's post. If you trick out the fiver, and you trick out the class A, it's still much more expensive. No, I'm not the basic 5th wheel units at that price point have much fewer features than any Class A. That is the reason for the price difference. Remember, I spent many years owning towable units. I work for a large heavy truck manufacturing company. If you have equivalent functionality and features you will have roughly the same cost. In both scenarios you have a dwelling and power unit. There is no magic in manufacturing. An engine, transmission, refrigerator, inverter, batteries, Air Conditioners and other components all cost the same regardless of whether they are installed in a 5th wheel, travel trailer or motorhome. Where you get into differences such as major missing components such as generators now you get some price differences a Cummins generator can cost well over $6K depending on model. In a typical two AC RV you would need a minimum of a 6K generator to run both ACs. Now, I am not talking about the high end Class A (gas or diesel) rigs that have tile floor and solid surface countertops etc. I'm talking about the family friendly lower cost Class A units that have vinyl floors etc. In my experience they are much better integrated than anything in the lower end towable space. To get equivalent features in a towable market you will need to go much higher end unit. Now, if those feature differences are not important to the customer then a really good deal at a much lower price point can be had in the towable market. We used towable units for many years. We restored a 1969 Terry travel trailer to usable condition years ago. That trailer only cost us $700 before we fixed it. The towable market can be a lower cost way to get into RVing if you have a suitable tow vehicle and are willing to tailor your use to fit the capability of the RV and put up with the limitations of the platform. Making blanket statements of which I have been guilty of doing myself don't help people understand the very real differences in the various options. When I help people figure out what they need I try to listen to what is important for them. I point out the things I have learned including the quirks of each platform. I have in the past been guilty of making blanket statements that equivalent towable are always less expensive. That isn't the case and is missing a lot of the factors that may or may not be important.361Views0likes0Comments
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