Annual Update re Mexican Diesel Fuel

Wow Moisheh! "Conspiricy theorist"???? "Racist"???? Maybe you should lay off whatever you've been smoking.
I'm not sure what part of Mexico you travel in, but where I travel I see dozens and dozens of post 2007 diesel pickups. They are there because dozens upon dozens upon dozens of their friends, relatives and neighbors have driven in Mexico and had no problem. They are there because they choose to evaluate the risks and make their own personal decision whether to go to Mexico or not. They are there despite the goofy rants that you post forecasting the end of the world if they dare to run some LSD in their vehicles. How ridiculous and childish to suggest Ed White should honor the warranty! If you buy a new diesel p/u, do your own due diligence, make your own decision and live with the results, just like the dozens of others mentioned above. IMHO Ed White is doing exactly what he claims to be doing...providing information. On the other hand, you provide nothing but nonsensical criticism.

Wow, as I said in an earlier post, it is amazing how upset people get over this topic.

Briansue, to my knowledge there is nowhere in Mexico that legally permits 75 mph highway speeds, so the occasional pickup owner who has an emissions related error code may have to decide whether to break the law in Mexico in order to clear that code, or codes. This is another reason why I like to discuss all the options with an owner and not just post a set of "instructions" on line.

As for the Android based phone or tablet - connection to the cellphone service In Mexico is NOT required. The phone simply acts as a programming device in the exceptionally rare instances when direct communication with the ECM (Electronic Control Module) in the truck is necessary.

And of course you must stick with your older equipment if you feel uncomfortable risking problems with newer equipment in Mexico. I am not a pickup truck or motorhome salesman, so I have no vested interest in moving people up to more modern vehicles.

That having been said, I suspect that there are several hundred, perhaps thousands, of post 2007.5 diesel powered vehicles in Mexico over the winter season, and the vast majority never have any issues.

To moisheh, who has been attacking me since 2007, but whose cries of gloom and doom have never come to pass, NO, I am NOT an SAE certified engineer. My engineering qualifications were earned outside of North America.

And NO, I am NOT a certified diesel mechanic, but this fact does not alter the fact that I know significantly more about the programming and operation of diesel emissions systems than most dealership mechanics. I have had conversations with diesel technicians at dealerships as remotely separated as Kelowna, BC, Tucson, AZ, and Fort Myers, FL and NONE of them had anywhere near the knowledge I am fortunate enough to have acquired through my engineering contacts in the industry.

And NO, of course I won't honour somebody's pickup warranty - taking a post 2007 pickup into Mexico runs contrary to the warranty advice of all of the Big 3 manufacturers. Please get real !!! The reality is, people DO TAKE THEIR POST 2007 DIESEL PICKUPS INTO MEXICO, no matter what you say !!! And sometimes they need help to deal with problems which occur. Show some compassion !!!

I think it has been said before, you can always tell that someone is losing an argument when they start calling you names like "conspiracy theorist" and "racist".

Despite enormous amounts of research, I have personally never found a single example of a trucker or a motorhome owner who has experienced any emissions related problem while in Mexico, but I would like to add any such experience to the database. Therefore, moisheh,could you please email me the names and specific contact details for those truckers and motorhome owners you mentioned in your post.

I am also unaware of any ECM, on any diesel powered vehicle, that automatically sends messages about emissions to anyone. This is of great interest to me, so please email me with more details so that I can follow up. I want to be sure that my database is current and helpful if, or when, owners have problems.

Hopefully all of you who are so upset will have a nice restful night's sleep.

Ed White: Are you an SAE certified engineer? Are you even a certified diesel mechanic? If I buy a new Pu and have problems will you honour the warranty when the OM will not? You always add some sort of disclaimer. If all of your statements are proven facts then no need for that disclaimer. I cAn add that much of what you post is true. But intermingled are statements that cannot be verified or are just not correct. That is what consparicy theorists and racists do. Throw out some truth, toss in the lies and hope that people will believe you. It is fact that the emissions systems in PU's are not the same as those in large MH's. If one has problems with a 2014 ISX or DD13 or DD15 you will not be solving the problem with some voodoo magic. It will be towed and could spend weeks at the dealership solving the problem. Happens to truckers all the time. And the ECM does record regens and trouble codes. Manufacturers have to comply with all the CARB and EPA emission requirements. The equipment that is onboard is very complicated and adds more than $10,000 to the cost of the vehicle. The manufacturers are having huge problems with these systems and here is some layperson spouting a bunch of nonsense and encouraging people to just go ahead and not follow what is printed in your owners manual. Even worse this person is all the while making statements that he is NOT encouraging anyone to use the wrong fuel. I find it hard to understand your real motive. You are not providing a service. You are asking people to follow your example and risk $$ and damage to an expensive system. I would suggest that anyone with a new diesel MH should ignore these posts and follow what is stated in your manual. DD's not only record trouble codes they send a message to DD and if you agree they make an appointment at the closest dealer with the appropriate parts. The ECM has some sort of GPS built in!

If an owner simply starts doing things off a pre-printed list, without having an understanding of the impact, he or she could complicate the situation rather than solve it.

protect the sources who have supplied me with the necessary technical information,

EPA has specifically prohibited manufacturers from making public

all of the experiences can be tracked, so that the procedures can be improved,

owners need access to email, and an Android based cellphone, as well as a specialty wireless item that has to obtained from the USA.

a 15 minute high speed drive, above 74 mph,

having to drive at 5mph (limp mode)

making sure that there is internet access to facilitate research and obtaining help if there is a problem.

Some selected phrases from some of the above posts bring questions to mind - such as what if you cannot drive at 74 mph for 15 minutes since you are in limp mode - or on roads that do not allow 74mph which few roads in Mexico do - - and again not having internet access or having the specialty wireless system that can only be found in the US - or an Android. The procedure may need improving. Not allowed by EPA.

I am not trying to attack anyone or be disrespectful of anyone's efforts - I am trying to find as many facts as possible so that those who might have questions can find answers. To me the answers do not support the idea that driving a new diesel in Mexico is advisable. I am trying to find out what people can do if they find themselves in a situation that could occur if LSD fuel is used in a ULSD required vehicle. People need to know both sides of the story and not just that a lot of people have done it and gotten away with it.

I very much want people to go to Mexico and to experience Mexico and think most people with open minds could benefit from the experience. But they should be aware of the fuel situation and what it could mean. We have a 2006 with a Cummins 400ISL and will not buy anything else until Mexico has ULSD. People who do enjoy Mexico and are thinking of buying a new diesel powered vehicle should probably take some of this into consideration before making a final decision. People who do own a newer diesel powered vehicle and want to go to Mexico should be aware that they need to be very near sources of internet at all times and only drive on those few roads where they can drive at 74mph for 15 minutes - and they need to buy whatever that special wireless system is before they leave the US. I personally would not even consider it which is why we will stick with out 2006 for years to come. We enjoy Mexico way too much to buy a vehicle we maybe should not drive in Mexico.

MEXICOWANDERER, don't be so quick to slam the Mexicans. I just drove the new 40D all the way. It is an engineering marvel. Get your facts straight...

rocmoc, I'm too old to deprive myself of the enjoyment of a brand new diesel powered vehicle just because I MIGHT have an issue, and an issue which is completely manageable, in Mexico. There's no comparison between the gorgeous, powerful, quiet diesel pickups of today, and those which were built pre-2007.5. Each to their own.

It always surprises me how upset people seem to get over this issue. Everything from righteous indignation to outright hostility. By all means be critical of folks who choose to ignore warnings to not drive into Mexico, but for those who do make the decision to come, it wouldn't hurt to show some compassion and ensure that they can get help if something goes wrong.

Briansue, you are correct, if the owner of an affected vehicle chooses to take it into Mexico and run it on Mexican diesel, he or she must take personal responsibility for the decision that has been made. That means getting well informed about what MIGHT happen, albeit rare, and making sure that there is internet access to facilitate research and obtaining help if there is a problem.

In practical terms, nobody will get "stranded" as a result of emissions issues related to the fuel. Worst case scenario is having to drive at 5mph (limp mode) but there is plenty of advance warning for limp mode, several hundred miles in fact. There is always plenty of time, distance, and opportunity to get help well before limp mode.

Yes, I have assisted owners every year in Mexico since the winter season of 2007.5 - 2008. In the past week I have helped two owners to deal with Poor DEF messages. They find me via various forums and/or friends who are aware that I can assist. Hopefully though, within a year or two, Pemex will live up to its commitment to supply ulsd and my help will no longer be required.

Ed White wrote:
Briansue, the reasons I do not wish to post the procedures on this website, or any other website, are:

1.
I have the experience to ask the right questions of an owner, so that I can determine which is the best course of action. If an owner simply starts doing things off a pre-printed list, without having an understanding of the impact, he or she could complicate the situation rather than solve it.

2.
I need to protect the sources who have supplied me with the necessary technical information, for a number of reasons, not least of which is the fact that the EPA has specifically prohibited manufacturers from making public some of the procedures. The EPA is concerned that owners with too much knowledge may make modifications which increase emissions. I therefore have keep to a minimum the number of copies in circulation, and to first question an owner in order to determine that the problem is genuine - that it is not just a fishing expedition to find out the sources of my information.

3.
It is VERY important that there be a central database where all of the experiences can be tracked, so that the procedures can be improved, and mistakes can be avoided. This happened last season when a question by an owner led indirectly to a simplified way of dealing with Poor DEF Quality messages on 2012 and later GM products.

4.
In some rare situations, owners need access to email, and an Android based cellphone, as well as a specialty wireless item that has to obtained from the USA. I have to ensure that all of the correct items are present before explaining what needs to be done. Again, this is rare, but every situation needs to be assessed before deciding on the best approach.

5.
Bottom line, if I try to explain it in simple terms, all of the procedures are aimed at getting exhaust gas temperatures up to a level which will burn sulfur compounds out of the DPF (and the SCR in 2011 and later model years). The ideal way is to induce a regeneration cycle, which the EPA says owners must not be allowed to do, so the vehicle has to be "tricked" into starting a regeneration cycle well before limp mode. Sometimes, for 2007.5 through 2010 model years, a 15 minute high speed drive, above 74 mph, is sufficient, and is an easy thing that any owner can try without complicating matters.

IMHO, sounds like it isn't worth taking the chance of traveling SOB in a newer DIESEL rig. One reason I will keep my older rig as I don't want all the worries on a trip that is suppose to be a free from present day stuff (wanted to use a more descriptive word but didn't). Will wait until Pemex makes the upgrade before we purchase another rig or change over to gas. Economics of a Diesel Rig are changing anyway.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

Ed White,

It would appear from what you write that if someone does find themselves in Mexico with a problem due to fuel and they cannot access the internet due to their location (possibly stranded) there would probably be no help available to them from you or anyone else? Does not sound like a desirable situation. Also sounds like you have helped people who have experienced problems in Mexico. So the conclusion can be drawn that problems may occur and you may not be able to help - so no help available. You need to talk them through it or they could have more problems. So it happens. And if they do not have internet or the proper internet devices they could remain stranded. Interesting.

PEMEX is shuffling their feet, stalling and buying time over the criticism that no apparent forward progress has been forthcoming from their lips.

Sort of reminds me of what isn't happening with the final stretch of Mex 40-D, between Durango and Villa Union. The bridge concrete needs to sit unloaded for 5 months after being poured. So this means what, May?