Ontario License Plate - Still hard to get!!!!

Pipeman wrote:
JaxDad, is that trailer weight of 4600 kilos, the dry weight or loaded weight? I think I know the answer but, there's always a but.

As the old saying goes, "Its all comes down to when the rubber meets the road." It's based on the weight of the trailer at the moment it's weighed.

That's part of the problem, no, it's ALL of the problem.

Joe Citizen has a dually pickup (that normally pulls an RV), a heavy tandem trailer (two 6,000 pound axles) and little Kubota tractor with backhoe on it. On his way to his summer place he gets stopped in a safety blitz.

"I'm sorry sir, your trailer is over 4,600 KG and you only have a class G licence, your truck is only licenced for 4,500 KG and you have no CVOR. Please step out and grab your ankles sir."

Seriously, at that point you're in some major doo-doo.

The solution is simple -define commercial - not by weight but what you do, are you 'in commerce or not" .
The new problem will be all the small businesses that pull a cargo trailer with a 1/2 ton ,they got a medical? yellow sticker? circle check?
But because the truck is light they fly under the radar ,and revenue is lost while retirees and snowbirds get the shaft.

almcc wrote:

JaxDad wrote:
Ontario, and a few other Provinces, were forced (shamed?) into doing something to enforce the rules.

Under reciprocity rules covered by US / Canada agreements if you're legal at home, you're legal everywhere. The problem though is that not all jurisdictions were as willing to turn a blind eye to people driving things they weren't licenced for.

Imagine being pulled over in Georgia and having your 5'er impounded because you weren't legal to drive it! Drive your pickup home bobtail, get a class A licence then drive back to Georgia to bail out your trailer. Doesn't sound like a fun vacation does it?

JaxDad, with all due respects to our friends in the US, I'll bet if I was pulled over in some places an officer would look at our plate and assume that it was issued in the city of the same name in California! In short, other juristicians have no idea what our licenses allow us to haul, AND if that officer had to call and find out what our Ontario licensing regulations covered (and got some of the same wrong answers as we have gotten from Service Ontario)he/she would be lost.

Ask an OPP officer about the issue (I have), you will get a similar answer.

For sure ,if MTO can't give a straight answer.
This is not a rare combination I can see 3 in just our neighbourhood alone ,if 10% (of trailers)fall into this weight class I bet there are 20,000 in Ontario.
All out of class ......... better build more jails

JaxDad wrote:
Ontario, and a few other Provinces, were forced (shamed?) into doing something to enforce the rules.

Under reciprocity rules covered by US / Canada agreements if you're legal at home, you're legal everywhere. The problem though is that not all jurisdictions were as willing to turn a blind eye to people driving things they weren't licenced for.

Imagine being pulled over in Georgia and having your 5'er impounded because you weren't legal to drive it! Drive your pickup home bobtail, get a class A licence then drive back to Georgia to bail out your trailer. Doesn't sound like a fun vacation does it?

JaxDad, with all due respects to our friends in the US, I'll bet if I was pulled over in some places an officer would look at our plate and assume that it was issued in the city of the same name in California! In short, other juristicians have no idea what our licenses allow us to haul, AND if that officer had to call and find out what our Ontario licensing regulations covered (and got some of the same wrong answers as we have gotten from Service Ontario)he/she would be lost.

Ask an OPP officer about the issue (I have), you will get a similar answer.

JaxDad, is that trailer weight of 4600 kilos, the dry weight or loaded weight? I think I know the answer but, there's always a but. Thanks for all your info. It's frustrating as h*ll. I found out that as a senior you have to do the medical, written and driving tests every year when I had to get the class AR when it first came into being. As I have said they lumped us in with commercial senior drivers. I guess when we hit 65 years of age, all our reasoning, driving skills etc. leave us on our birthdays. I know there is an exception, but....

Ontario, and a few other Provinces, were forced (shamed?) into doing something to enforce the rules.

You can't pull a trailer over 4,600 KG unless you have a Class A licence. Ok. But if you showed up for a road test with an F550 pulling a tandem dual gooseneck (we have 3 in our fleet, legal and licenced for 30,000 # on the trailer and 50,000# gross) they'd refuse to do the road test with you because you weren't in a tractor / trailer but they'd be licensing you to drive one.

Ditto someone with a dually and big 5'er, come back with a 'real' truck & trailer or no Class A licence.

Of course the issue gets magnified since the rules apply to the entire province. Now a retiree in say Kapuskasing wants to get a big 5'er to escape winter. He has to go to a truck driving training school many hours from home and spend thousands of dollars getting licenced to drive something he'll never drive again.

Under reciprocity rules covered by US / Canada agreements if you're legal at home, you're legal everywhere. The problem though is that not all jurisdictions were as willing to turn a blind eye to people driving things they weren't licenced for.

Imagine being pulled over in Georgia and having your 5'er impounded because you weren't legal to drive it! Drive your pickup home bobtail, get a class A licence then drive back to Georgia to bail out your trailer. Doesn't sound like a fun vacation does it?

It's not an 'exemption' BTW for senior drivers, they just pushed back the age at which you go from taking road & written re tests every 5 years to having to do so to every year.

Well the whole A-R is a total cluster ,I will not do any such thing it would be easier to move to alberta.
What is your take on the senior exemption ? then a RV exemption . How can a officer deal with all the B.S?
Heres hoping for clarity in the days ahead but not holding my breath,commercial operators are the priority we are collateral damage.

hone eagle wrote:
Had a long conversation today with 2 different MTO staff (I called twice) first time "you need a CVOR and a A-R.
A restricted A is 90% of a commercial licence -medical ,eye test, on and on The only thing you can't do is pull a air brake trailer. I don't think RV's are meant to be subjected to this.
So I called again "motorhome exempt"
sigh
Like jaxdad stated they are after the hotshotters using F550's and running commercial but under the radar ,but for the sake of a few hundred lawbreakers a 100,000 rv's get abushed,I doubt they could accommodate all of us if we suddenly showed up for our AR.

The first person was right, you need a Class A/R license (assuming your bus doesn't have air brakes). They were wrong in that you don't need a CVOR and you can't drive a 'regular' highway tractor.

The second person was also partly correct, a Motorhome is exempt from needing a CVOR. It is NOT exempt from the weight limit before an A or A/R is needed.

hone eagle wrote:


here

things that make you go humm
Seems the A-R is for commercial drivers using auto or automated transmissions ,to indicate they can't drive a 18 speed or any manual box. Why recreational drivers got dropped into this is beyond me.
The senior exemption is something to pursue ,nobody at MTO asked my age.

Whoever wrote that article should stick to cartoons, at least they're funny.

From the MTO website;

"Restricted Class A licence

What you can drive

The restricted Class A (condition R) licence is meant for drivers operating smaller truck-trailer combinations, such as a recreational, horse or utility trailer.
You can also drive:
a car or light truck covered by a Class G licence
heavy trucks covered by the Class D truck licence.

What you can't drive

With a restricted Class A licence, you can't:;

pull a trailer equipped with air brakes
drive a full-size tractor-trailer
drive a vehicle pulling a double trailer
train another driver on a vehicle that requires full Class A privileges to drive"


A Restricted Class A does not, under ANY circumstances allow you to drive a regular highway tractor or have anything to do with auto or manual transmission.

here

things that make you go humm
Seems the A-R is for commercial drivers using auto or automated transmissions ,to indicate they can't drive a 18 speed or any manual box. Why recreational drivers got dropped into this is beyond me.
The senior exemption is something to pursue ,nobody at MTO asked my age.