PICKUP TRUCKS DENIED ACCESS TO MEXICO
Over the past week or so I have had quite a few emails back and forth with people who appear to be the authorities in Mexico on the subject of how much a vehicle can legally weigh when entering Mexico...
Forum Discussion
I am still emailing back and forth with whoever it is that is responding to my emails at SAT asking for a clear and concise answer to the problem. I keep asking questions but the replies I get have conflicting answers depending on which of their laws are being a applied.
In one case the law clearly states the 3.5 ton weight applies to cargo.
In another cast the law states the maximum weight is 3.5 tons - but it just says maximum weight in a way that can be interpreted as being the total weight of the entire vehicle.
They are using the GVWR to assume the weight of the vehicle but to me that is not what the law says. In order for them to know the actual weight of the vehicle they would have to weigh it on a scale.
They have no way of knowing what the vehicle weighs.
I keep going back and forth with them trying to explain that border personnel are interpreting the laws in different ways at different crossings. Or they are reading the wording of one law one place and another law another place. The words do seem to be on conflict.
I sent them manufacturers specifications which I also posted in the other thread where I can find no pickup truck in the classifications they are rejecting that has a load carrying weight of over 3.5 tons or 7,716 lbs.
Here are a couple laws..........
This is where this manual can be found.
http://www.sat.gob.mx/informacion_fiscal/normatividad/Paginas/manuales.aspx
Restricciones de los vehiculos que pueden importarse temporalmente
PAGE 22……….
Restrictions on vehicles that may be temporarily imported:
Vehiculos que tengan una capacidad de carga maxima de hasta tres y media toneladas de peso (3 y ½ toneladas que equivalen a 7716.17 libras)
Vehicles having a maximum load capacity of up to three and a half tonnes of weight (3 and 1/2 tonnes equivalent to 7716.17 pounds).
http://www.ordenjuridico.gob.mx/leyes.php
Under REGULATIONS scrolling down to 578 gets to this – which may or may not mean anything……….. seems they use the word “carga” to means “Load whose weight added to the vehicle weight” but I have no idea. Far too many laws. I have no idea what it might mean. To me “carga” is the weight loaded into the bed of the pickup.
Also this – “The maximum weight of the load that a vehicle can transport in safety conditions and for which it was designed by the manufacturer or rebuilder.” Here they say this is what the manufacturer says the vehicle is capable of – “capacity”).
REGLAMENTO SOBRE EL PESO, DIMENSIONES Y CAPACIDAD DE LOS VEHÍCULOS DE AUTOTRANSPORTE QUE TRANSITAN EN LOS CAMINOS Y PUENTES DE JURISDICCIÓN FEDERAL
REGULATION ON THE WEIGHT, DIMENSIONS AND CAPACITY OF AUTO-TRANSPORT VEHICLES TRANSITING ON THE PATHS AND BRIDGES OF FEDERAL JURISDICTION
Publicado en el DOF el 26 de enero de 1994
Fe de erratas DOF 25 de marzo de 1994
Última reforma publicada DOF 15 de noviembre de 2006
CARGA DE GRAN PESO O VOLUMEN Carga cuyo peso adicionado al peso vehicular rebasa los límites establecidos para el peso bruto vehicular en este Reglamento o carga cuyas dimensiones rebasan las máximas autorizadas, por lo que para su transportación requiere de vehículos y disposiciones especiales.
CARGA UTIL Y PESO UTIL Peso máximo de la carga que un vehículo puede transportar en condiciones de seguridad y para el cual fue diseñado por el fabricante o reconstructor.
LOADING OF GREAT WEIGHT OR VOLUME Load whose weight added to the vehicle weight exceeds the limits established for the gross vehicle weight in this Regulation or load whose dimensions exceed the maximum authorized, so that for transportation requires vehicles and special provisions.
USEFUL LOAD AND UTILITY WEIGHT The maximum weight of the load that a vehicle can transport in safety conditions and for which it was designed by the manufacturer or rebuilder.
There again they would have to know the weight of the "carga".
NEXT I found the heaviest rated pickup I could find on these manufacturers websites. None of these vehicles has a load carrying capacity over the 3.5 limit but they are being rejected based on the GVWR tag.
CHEVROLET SILVERADO 3500HD - 2018
http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/vehicles/silverado-3500hd/2018.tab1.html
Reg cab, 8’ box (2WD) with dual rear wheels:
The Silverado 3500 offers the same engine/transmission features that the 2500HD does, however it is usually equipped with "dually" twin wheels at the rear and has a stronger suspension. The HD models are primarily used for towing and high-weight cargo.
GVWR 13500
CURB 6322
PAYLOAD 7153 (Would this be “Capacidad de Carga”?)
https://www.ford.com/trucks/super-duty/2017/models/f350-king-ranch/?gnav=vhpnav
FORD F-450 DRW 4x4
Maximum Payload 7,630 lbs.
Maximum GVWR 14,000 lbs.
Curb weight 6,847 lbs.
Both the 350 and 450 dualies carry the same bumper-tow rating (21,000 pounds), similar fifth-wheel-tow ratings (31,300 pounds for the F-350; 32,500 for the F-450), and the same 14,000-pound GVWR.
RAM 3500
https://www.ramtrucks.com/model-compare/detailed-chart/?modelYearCode=CUT201815&variation=1,0&variation=0,2&variation=1,2&variation=0,2&variation=1,2&variation=0,3&variation=1,3&variation=0,3
RAM 3500
LIMITED
Payload Capacity - 7,390 POUNDS
14,000-pound Gross Vehicle Weight Rating
Curb Weight 6732
Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) is the total weight of a fully loaded vehicle, including passengers and payload – but excluding all towing.
Curb Weight - The weight of a vehicle without any passengers or cargo, but including all necessary fuel, fluids and standard equipment.
Truck camper: 3,500 pounds (unloaded)
Load your truck bed and cabin with the gear you need. With a maximum payload of 7,390 pounds with the gas engine, Ram 3500 lets you carry almost anything you might need.
If the registration of the vehicle does not say "motor home" it is technically not classified under the weight exemption. It may be possible in some states to get the registration to say motor home but probably not. But the law says "casa rodante" which more or less translates to "house on wheels" and not motor home. They use the term motor home as a literal translation.
My emails are asking for a more concise understanding of the terminology of "Annex 1". Why can't a camper on a truck be classified as a "casa rodante" as it does appear to meet the criteria?
I keep asking them to clarify what the law means and why it is being applied differently but I cannot get them to commit to a clear and concise answer. They are bureaucrats and afraid to put their name on an answer. I have been trying to get them to pass the law up to higher authorities who would be qualified and willing to stick their neck out with an answer.
I do not think it does any good to argue with them at the border at this point. Headquarters has to make up their minds as to what law should apply and how it should be applied. Then they need to get the message out to the troops in the field so everyone knows exactly what the law means and how to apply it at the border.
They are rejecting pickup trucks based on their assumed weight and not on actual weight. They also seem to be conflicted about what the terminology of the law means. They seem to have a list of specific vehicles to reject but the vehicles on the list are the ones I mention above and do not have a cargo load capacity over 7,716 lbs.
I am still emailing trying to get through to them that there seems to be confusion about what the law says and how it seems to be open to interpretation. I will post again as soon as they provide a clear and concise answer. I can't seem to get them to commit to one yet.
In one case the law clearly states the 3.5 ton weight applies to cargo.
In another cast the law states the maximum weight is 3.5 tons - but it just says maximum weight in a way that can be interpreted as being the total weight of the entire vehicle.
They are using the GVWR to assume the weight of the vehicle but to me that is not what the law says. In order for them to know the actual weight of the vehicle they would have to weigh it on a scale.
They have no way of knowing what the vehicle weighs.
I keep going back and forth with them trying to explain that border personnel are interpreting the laws in different ways at different crossings. Or they are reading the wording of one law one place and another law another place. The words do seem to be on conflict.
I sent them manufacturers specifications which I also posted in the other thread where I can find no pickup truck in the classifications they are rejecting that has a load carrying weight of over 3.5 tons or 7,716 lbs.
Here are a couple laws..........
This is where this manual can be found.
http://www.sat.gob.mx/informacion_fiscal/normatividad/Paginas/manuales.aspx
Restricciones de los vehiculos que pueden importarse temporalmente
PAGE 22……….
Restrictions on vehicles that may be temporarily imported:
Vehiculos que tengan una capacidad de carga maxima de hasta tres y media toneladas de peso (3 y ½ toneladas que equivalen a 7716.17 libras)
Vehicles having a maximum load capacity of up to three and a half tonnes of weight (3 and 1/2 tonnes equivalent to 7716.17 pounds).
http://www.ordenjuridico.gob.mx/leyes.php
Under REGULATIONS scrolling down to 578 gets to this – which may or may not mean anything……….. seems they use the word “carga” to means “Load whose weight added to the vehicle weight” but I have no idea. Far too many laws. I have no idea what it might mean. To me “carga” is the weight loaded into the bed of the pickup.
Also this – “The maximum weight of the load that a vehicle can transport in safety conditions and for which it was designed by the manufacturer or rebuilder.” Here they say this is what the manufacturer says the vehicle is capable of – “capacity”).
REGLAMENTO SOBRE EL PESO, DIMENSIONES Y CAPACIDAD DE LOS VEHÍCULOS DE AUTOTRANSPORTE QUE TRANSITAN EN LOS CAMINOS Y PUENTES DE JURISDICCIÓN FEDERAL
REGULATION ON THE WEIGHT, DIMENSIONS AND CAPACITY OF AUTO-TRANSPORT VEHICLES TRANSITING ON THE PATHS AND BRIDGES OF FEDERAL JURISDICTION
Publicado en el DOF el 26 de enero de 1994
Fe de erratas DOF 25 de marzo de 1994
Última reforma publicada DOF 15 de noviembre de 2006
CARGA DE GRAN PESO O VOLUMEN Carga cuyo peso adicionado al peso vehicular rebasa los límites establecidos para el peso bruto vehicular en este Reglamento o carga cuyas dimensiones rebasan las máximas autorizadas, por lo que para su transportación requiere de vehículos y disposiciones especiales.
CARGA UTIL Y PESO UTIL Peso máximo de la carga que un vehículo puede transportar en condiciones de seguridad y para el cual fue diseñado por el fabricante o reconstructor.
LOADING OF GREAT WEIGHT OR VOLUME Load whose weight added to the vehicle weight exceeds the limits established for the gross vehicle weight in this Regulation or load whose dimensions exceed the maximum authorized, so that for transportation requires vehicles and special provisions.
USEFUL LOAD AND UTILITY WEIGHT The maximum weight of the load that a vehicle can transport in safety conditions and for which it was designed by the manufacturer or rebuilder.
There again they would have to know the weight of the "carga".
NEXT I found the heaviest rated pickup I could find on these manufacturers websites. None of these vehicles has a load carrying capacity over the 3.5 limit but they are being rejected based on the GVWR tag.
CHEVROLET SILVERADO 3500HD - 2018
http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/vehicles/silverado-3500hd/2018.tab1.html
Reg cab, 8’ box (2WD) with dual rear wheels:
The Silverado 3500 offers the same engine/transmission features that the 2500HD does, however it is usually equipped with "dually" twin wheels at the rear and has a stronger suspension. The HD models are primarily used for towing and high-weight cargo.
GVWR 13500
CURB 6322
PAYLOAD 7153 (Would this be “Capacidad de Carga”?)
https://www.ford.com/trucks/super-duty/2017/models/f350-king-ranch/?gnav=vhpnav
FORD F-450 DRW 4x4
Maximum Payload 7,630 lbs.
Maximum GVWR 14,000 lbs.
Curb weight 6,847 lbs.
Both the 350 and 450 dualies carry the same bumper-tow rating (21,000 pounds), similar fifth-wheel-tow ratings (31,300 pounds for the F-350; 32,500 for the F-450), and the same 14,000-pound GVWR.
RAM 3500
https://www.ramtrucks.com/model-compare/detailed-chart/?modelYearCode=CUT201815&variation=1,0&variation=0,2&variation=1,2&variation=0,2&variation=1,2&variation=0,3&variation=1,3&variation=0,3
RAM 3500
LIMITED
Payload Capacity - 7,390 POUNDS
14,000-pound Gross Vehicle Weight Rating
Curb Weight 6732
Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) is the total weight of a fully loaded vehicle, including passengers and payload – but excluding all towing.
Curb Weight - The weight of a vehicle without any passengers or cargo, but including all necessary fuel, fluids and standard equipment.
Truck camper: 3,500 pounds (unloaded)
Load your truck bed and cabin with the gear you need. With a maximum payload of 7,390 pounds with the gas engine, Ram 3500 lets you carry almost anything you might need.
If the registration of the vehicle does not say "motor home" it is technically not classified under the weight exemption. It may be possible in some states to get the registration to say motor home but probably not. But the law says "casa rodante" which more or less translates to "house on wheels" and not motor home. They use the term motor home as a literal translation.
My emails are asking for a more concise understanding of the terminology of "Annex 1". Why can't a camper on a truck be classified as a "casa rodante" as it does appear to meet the criteria?
I keep asking them to clarify what the law means and why it is being applied differently but I cannot get them to commit to a clear and concise answer. They are bureaucrats and afraid to put their name on an answer. I have been trying to get them to pass the law up to higher authorities who would be qualified and willing to stick their neck out with an answer.
I do not think it does any good to argue with them at the border at this point. Headquarters has to make up their minds as to what law should apply and how it should be applied. Then they need to get the message out to the troops in the field so everyone knows exactly what the law means and how to apply it at the border.
They are rejecting pickup trucks based on their assumed weight and not on actual weight. They also seem to be conflicted about what the terminology of the law means. They seem to have a list of specific vehicles to reject but the vehicles on the list are the ones I mention above and do not have a cargo load capacity over 7,716 lbs.
I am still emailing trying to get through to them that there seems to be confusion about what the law says and how it seems to be open to interpretation. I will post again as soon as they provide a clear and concise answer. I can't seem to get them to commit to one yet.
