At the end of the year competitive staiions will have the freedom to purchase fuel from other sources other than pemex. If anyone discovers any stations selling ULSD, they shoudl post the locations. I am not holding my breath, but you never know.

Last I heard the law to allow purchasing from anywhere went into affect April 1, 2016 - but I could be wrong - I posted about it way back last winter and forget the details. There are now a number of what I call consortiums made up of many franchisees who have joined together as one group. One I have seen a lot is G500 - seen on signs in many Pemex stations. There were 500 franchisees but now I have heard they are up to over 1,000. Anway, this gives these groups some serious buying power - and they can use their own tankers to haul fuel from wherever. What this all adds up to at this point I do not know - time will tell - but watch for stations with big banners saying things like G500 - and I think OXXO is also going to be hauling their own fuel but not sure - I also heard OXXO may even change the name of their fuel so the sign may not say Pemex anymore. Then there was a story that Gulf is going to be opening stations in Mexico that will show the Gulf brand sign. Who knows what will happen next? .

They cannot advertise it (Mex Gobernacion rule) and ULSD costs considerably more than Mexican refined diesel. The station would become uncompetitive. Plus commercial diesels would avoid it like the plague if it became public knowledge. There is no easy answer.Pipelines are (guess what?) owned by Pemex. They do not truck ULSD into Baja California. Comistibles are piped to Pemex tank farms then dispensed into pipas tanker trucks. If you think Pemex is going to pump a competitor's fuel for free......?!?Now that the price difference of Magna and Premium has widened, transport services have taken liberties mixing cheaper fuel with more expensive grade. This has been true since the days of Pemex Cien and Super Mexolina.In Baja California it is the huge distances involved that discourage the hauling of low sulfur diesel and Magna Sin to dilute into Premium. On the mainland, the barrier disappears.I've no answer as to how to go about relieving all these barriers and traps. But for simple economics I have returned to purchasing Magna, then adding a bottle of Chevron Techron every 2,000 miles. Well, you can't have everything.If and when ULSD enters a pipeline behind a pig, you can bet your butt it will be sent to D.F. first then to the state of Mexico. This is ironclad law and is going to remain a sore-point between the PRD party in power in the distrito and the PRI and Pemex. The regulation will be enforced meticulously for political reasons. The PRD will then publicly gloat "WE are the party that forced the cleanup of air pollution in Mexico City"

I do not claim to know anything. I report on things I have read and I usually post websites to where what I read can be found. I have posted about this topic previously and provided websites so I am just winging it off the top of my head here. Supposedly the transition to using other sources of fuel in Mexico has already begun. How this will happen I have no idea.Contracts have already been let and construction and refitting of old refineries has begun. Money has been paid to various different companies around the world who are contracted to do the upgrades to Mexico's refineries. They are bringing in international specialists who have built reduced pollution refineries around the world. Notices online clearly indicate this money has been paid. Researching information for another forum topic about Hoy No Circula I also came across written laws about getting ULSD in Mexico and primarily Mexico City and other large cities in an attempt to reduce pollution. They know it must be done and they are working on it according to the articles I have read and posted website addresses here previously. The Hoy No Circula law I found talked more about cleaning up vehicles and inspecting vehicles and cleaning up the fuel supply than it did about who can drive what and where. Research I have done on the internet has turned up no refinery in the US that still produces LSD fuel - all indications are that no US refinery continues to produce LSD - only ULSD is produced in the US - there is simply no economically feasible reason for US producers to produce anything but ULSD. If it comes from the US it will be ULSD. I also posted about at least two pipelines from oil fields in the US that are being built to the Mexican border. What this means I do not know. I believe this would be crude oil but not sure. We saw the pipelines last winter near Van Horn, TX and inquired about them. One will run south from Van Horn and the other from Van Horn to El Paso and then south from there. At least two major US oil exploration companies are already working in Mexico - Schlumberger and Halliburton - and there are probably others. It is my understanding that new wells are being drilled and new fields are opening up. Things are changing but who knows where they are going. Who can keep up with it all....

You will never see ULSD until it is Federally Mandated, which is years away. What company, be it Gulf or Oxxo or other groups, is going to invest in infrastructure such as dedicated underground tanks at the gas stations or a tank at their tank farm, to supply a few hundred vehicles? It all comes down to money and profits.

ULSD | Good Sam Community

briansue
Explorer
Oct 12, 2016
One of my previous posts included a website that said you can also smell the sulfur.
Tequila
Explorer
Oct 12, 2016
MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Outside of NAFTA cross border shuttle areas it is all regular USA diesel.

When I make statements about regular diesel being shipped to Canada do I need to clarify sea-lawyer style that the fuel is used in commercial fishing vessels and the ferry system between Vancouver, Nanaimo, and the mainland?

Some of you folks have GOT TO actually look at the diesel being dispensed instead of simply guessing or assuming things are this way or that way.

ACTUALLY SAMPLING DIESEL for clarity reveals ULSD is all but transparent. Regular USA diesel is not as easy to distinguish. I have to do it in full direct sunlight. Regular Mexican diesel has a definite yellowish tinge. Diesel Marina is not only definitely pure yellow it is noticeably more viscous. Diesel Marina cannot be purchased for pleasure craft - it is purchased using a ship's manifest.

I was planningto do this but some have told me you cannot tell the difference. Maybe i will give it a go and take a clear jar of us diesel with me in November.
briansue
Explorer
Oct 11, 2016
I do not know for sure but what I have turned up in my research is that ocean going ships still use "high sulfur" but not sure if that would be LSD - meaning 500pm or below - or if it is even higher. High sulfur is still produced in small quantities (as is LSD) but as near as I can tell it is only for "marine use" - and they way I have read that is it is for ocean going ships - it is cheap stuff and they use huge quantities.

I was very surprised to see that the US ships high sulfur to Canada - and almost none to Mexico. Here are the numbers from my previous post for Canada between Feb 2016 and Jul 2016.......

Greater than 15 to 500 ppm Sulfur
….. 749…… 886…… 732…… 339…… 245……. 63

Greater than 500 to 2000 ppm Sulfur
…… 53……. 73……. 65……. 173…… 134……. 169

That is for thousands of barrels. It may seem like a lot but in the overall scheme of things it is not really a lot. If it is for things like freighters sailing to China or other parts unknown.
moisheh
Explorer
Oct 11, 2016
There is no way the BC Government would use LSD. Probably illegal in Canada There is a reason BC is the LEFT coast!

Moisheh
briansue
Explorer
Oct 11, 2016
regular diesel

You continue to use the term "regular diesel" when the rest of us speak of LSD or ULSD. There are other possible terms. We have no idea what "regular diesel" is. Can you please specify what you mean - to which specific fuel are you referring?
briansue
Explorer
Oct 11, 2016
When I make statements about regular diesel being shipped to Canada do I need to clarify sea-lawyer style that the fuel is used in commercial fishing vessels and the ferry system between Vancouver, Nanaimo, and the mainland?

MORE CONFLICTING INFORMATION - From the official BC Ferries website - and Independent Review of Fuel Management states that BC Ferries use ULSD. They are in the process of converting to LNG. Can you please tell us where you get your information?

http://www.bcferries.com/files/AboutBCF/2015_06_29_FY15_Fuel_Strategies_Update_Report.pdf

INDEPENDENT REVIEW OF FUEL MANAGEMENT

BC Ferries’ fleet is currently fuelled by ultra-low sulphur diesel. Fuel costs represent BC Ferries’
second largest operating expenditures and, in “2014/15”, these costs were $118.6 million.

BC Ferries seeks to minimize fuel costs and fuel price volatility through strategies that include:

• Initiatives and capital projects directed at reducing consumption;

• Transitioning to more efficient and lower cost alternative fuels, principally liquefied natural
gas (“LNG”);

Editorial: Ferries and LNG go well together
http://www.cfoa.ca/uncategorized/editorial-ferries-and-lng-go-well-together/
briansue
Explorer
Oct 11, 2016
Outside of NAFTA cross border shuttle areas it is all regular USA diesel.

Can you please explain why everything I find online including all the US official gov't websites say the fuel the US sends to Mexico is ULSD. Can you please reference some official website where you get your information that the fuel sent to Mexico from the US is what you refer to as regular diesel - as opposed to clarifying if you mean LSD or ULSD. Why does your information seems to disagree with the official statistics I have posted and reference in this thread? Why does US EIA show tankers full of ULSD going to Veracruz from the US gulf coast?
briansue
Explorer
Oct 11, 2016
More curiosity about fuels used in Mexico took me to looking at electricity power plants in Mexico.

What does this have to do with ULSD you might ask? When I saw pipelines being built in TX I did not know what they were for. I later learned they are for natural gas. Mexico is building new power plants that will use natural gas. Mexico is also converting old fuel oil (diesel) fired power plants to use natural gas. This will not only help to clean the air but since natural gas has now become a very cheap fuel there could be a reduction in electricity costs. As Mexico converts to natural gas and gets more ULSD shipped in from the US more ULSD should be available for vehicle use - theoretical speculation. Maybe this is relevant and maybe it isn't.

Mexico is also building more hydroelectric plants as well as wind and solar plants - even geothermal and landfill gas (methane). These are all renewable resources producing minimal pollution.

I found many more websites with very little information about the conversion from fuel oil to natural gas. Mexico is spending a lot of money to build new natural gas power plants and to convert old plants to natural gas. Most of what I found online was about all the new pipelines that are being built to move natural gas from the US to Mexico. But also that Mexico is opening up their own natural gas resources by allowing new drilling which will provide them with much more of their own natural gas.

Here is a website and some numbers I found. The columns probably won't line up but you can probably figure it out. Go to the website to learn more.

http://enipedia.tudelft.nl/wiki/Mexico/Powerplants

Fuel Type Number of Power Plants
Hydro............... 67
Natural Gas........ 25
Wind................. 6
Solar Radiation.... 5
Geothermal........ 3
Coal............. 3
Fuel Oil........ 2
Landfill Gas....... 1
Municipal Solid Waste 1
Nuclear.......... 1
MEXICOWANDERER
Explorer
Oct 11, 2016
Outside of NAFTA cross border shuttle areas it is all regular USA diesel.

When I make statements about regular diesel being shipped to Canada do I need to clarify sea-lawyer style that the fuel is used in commercial fishing vessels and the ferry system between Vancouver, Nanaimo, and the mainland?

Some of you folks have GOT TO actually look at the diesel being dispensed instead of simply guessing or assuming things are this way or that way.

ACTUALLY SAMPLING DIESEL for clarity reveals ULSD is all but transparent. Regular USA diesel is not as easy to distinguish. I have to do it in full direct sunlight. Regular Mexican diesel has a definite yellowish tinge. Diesel Marina is not only definitely pure yellow it is noticeably more viscous. Diesel Marina cannot be purchased for pleasure craft - it is purchased using a ship's manifest.
briansue
Explorer
Oct 10, 2016
PEMEX will be the sole provider of domestic fuel to these stations. Each station will not get it's proprietary brand from a US refinery. Pemex will do the distributing. Pemex will collect the money from the station.

Agreed - my previous post about the law did say that all distribution in Mexico must be done by Pemex - storage and transportation. As one of my previous posts stated - Gulf no longer produces fuel - they buy it and sell it in their stations as do several other brand names - they do not refine themselves. They will probably by buying in Mexico just as they do in the US.

According to the websites I posted much of the ULSD from the US Gulf Coast goes by ship to what appears to be Veracruz (is there more than one gulf coast port for this type commodity?). Where it goes from there I do not know - but assume it would makes sense for at least some of it to find it's way to Mexico City (about 250 miles away over hill and dale). 200 to 300 million gallons per month seems like a lot to me - but maybe it is not?

ambiguous. For instance it is far cheaper to import regular US refined LSD diesel to remote Chihuahua and Sonora than it is to ship it north from Reynosa, or Salamanca.

According to the numbers I found they move very little LSD relative to the amount of ULSD.

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