ULSD

Briansue can probably find the details but Mexico did sign on to an Internationbal agreement to have ULSD available. I think the date final was in 2014. Never happened. There is no reason to produce the fuel. Go to any Class 8 truck dealer and look at a new Tractor: No DPF and certainly no SCR equipment. So who would want ULSD? A few hundred RV'rs and tourists !!!!

Moisheh

Stupid

Yes - well here is the stupid part - people have been supposing and speculating and assuming and one thing or another since way back when they required ULSD in the US. At that time the speculators on this forum said it would be available in Mexico in 2010. Guess not. From then until now it has been a continual topic and it is not going to stop any time soon.

There is nothing simple about this. If you think there is a simple answer you haven't been paying much attention to how things work in Mexico. As Wanderer says - no one will know when or where there is ULSD in Mexico until it is available almost universally. Odds are pretty certain there will not be a station here and a station there. And they will not have it at Gulf and not at Pemex. Of course that is just more speculation. Let's see how the facts shape up when and if they ever do.

PEMEX

FORBIDS

STATING

WHETHER

A

GASOLINERA'S

DIESEL

IS

UBA

Baja California the state, has UBA. Baja California SUR, does not. No one is going to SEE UBA diesel, even though half the gasolineras in Mexico may come to possess it. "Not Until 100% Of The Gasolineras in Mexico Have UBA Diesel Ready To Dispense Will Pemex Allow Gasolineras To State They have UBA Diesel"

This is a black and white declaration. No gray. And any foreign franchisees who open Gulf, Shell, Union, or freakin' Circle K gasolineras are NOT EXEMPT from Pemex rules. The extraneous gasolineras will be under the thumb of Pemex rules and regulations.

I wish more of you read Spanish and could fathom the official announcements by Petroleos Mexicanos as furnished to the news media.

Pemex WILL NOT ALLOW THE IMPORTATION OR SALE OF A milligram of UBA diesel until the demand in Distrito Federal is 100% satisfied by government MANDATE. Baja California and a few selected cross border NAFTA trucking areas are exempt.

When the Distrito Federal gets UBA the north American continent will shake with the news. Then comes the state of Mexico, then selected urban areas and others like the Rio Bravo valley.

Pemex will CONTROL the pumping of UBA diesel to tank farms that feed Mexico City. It will be distributed from tank farms via pipas licensed by Pemex.

I will bet that at the stroke of midnight 2019 New Years 2020, there will not be one UBA sign in the entire country. That's pretty damned definitive.

That is why I keep to the KISS principle, Keep It Simple Stupid, stay whith the simple facts and answers, all of this irrelevant internet downloading articles are useeless, let those that have real knowledge by bieng there or living the experience tell us where can you buy ULSD.

navegator

lets quit the arguing. I just want to know if anyone sees ULSD for sale this season to let us know where. We have has dozens of threads on the politics of it all.

There is a perennial squeeze on ULSD in the USA. The US military uses a surprising amount of ULSD in gas hog Hummers, Oshkosh, and trucks. Hundreds of millions of gallons as a matter of fact.

Pemex has stated dozens and dozens of times: "Until USB is made available to all Pemex gasolineras throughout Mexico there will be no announcement, by us or our franchisees about the availability of UBA in individual gasolineras".

Mexico DF

Estdo de Mexico

Monterrey

Puebla

Guadalajara

El Paso

Valle de Rio Bravo

All have been mentioned as candidates for first dibs on UBA. For sure the city is first and the state of Mexico is 2nd. After that, who knows? My Pemex engineer friends told me: "When you detect MTBE in winter gasoline blends, then you will know this area is a prime candidate for UBA diesel". They also told me that if Venezuela refined UBA diesel, Pemex would buy it from them. The pressure on Pemex is constant harassment against the PRI party by the PRD state and DF governments. The PRD is using the lack of UBA as political leverage.

They cannot even produce UBA Pemex Premium GASOLINE at the much vaunted Salina Cruz Oaxaca refinacion. Not one drop and production was guaranteed sworn on a stack of bibles to begin in 2014. UBA gasoline is a thousand times easier to manufacture than UBA diesel. Heavy Maya crude is much harder to refine into ANYTHING (other than asphalt) than lighter crudes. in an act of desperation Pemex signed a swap for USA fracked crude - 2 bbls of Maya for 1 bbl of Fracked.

Shell's Wilmington Dominguez, Martinez CA. and Deer Park refineries all have giant capacity DELAYED COKER PLANTS which extract a lot of carbon and sulfur out of process feedstock. In 1966 Shell paid the Bechtel Corporation $300,000,000 dollars, for the Martinez refinery "LOP" Light Oil Processing plant. Fifty years later this plant is far and away more modern than subsequently built Mexican refineries. This refinery's Delayed Coker, is located some 2-miles away on the other side of the refinery. On Ca. Hwy 4 near Richmond, is an (independent) COKE processing plant. This is where all the extracted coke is sent to (for making carbon black and other products) Mexico has none of these resources. Stauffer Chemical, removes molten sulfur via insulated tanker from Shell's Sulfur Plant & Treaters. it goes to Richmond where it is converted into H2SO4 sulfuric acid, then shipped back to the Martinez refinery to be used in the LOP alkylation plant to make alkylate. This is an extremely high quality component essential to aviation gasoline. Mexican refineries do not have alkylation plants. Mexico has lots of hydrotreaters, some cat crackers, and GOSRH (gas-oil straight run hydrotreaters).

Hope This Helps

At the end of the year competitive stations will have the freedom to purchase fuel from other sources other than pemex

Once again - the quote that is the first line of the current topic. If you do not care why bother to reply?

Maybe it won't be the end of this year. Maybe it won't be the end of next year. Who knows? Maybe nobody knows? The point is they have passed a law that allows competition into the fuel supply business in Mexico. So what does that mean? Nothing? Something? Will there ever be ULSD? They say there will. Will it be outsiders such as Gulf who finally gets it done? Probably not. But I know nothing. I just posted some things I found online that could point to where things could be going.

If they do get ULSD in the Mexico City area - which is what the Hoy No Circula sort of eludes to - it could still be awhile before this fuel gets out to the rest of Mexico. But they do know about it and they are interested in cleaning up the air. So maybe it will happen.

When and where is asked in the next line of the original post.


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Who cares where they get the fuel from, what matters is that they sell it so that those turistats that use it have a list of gasolineras that carry this product, whether Pemex is building or importing or Gulf does not matter it will be some time before it is widely available, all of this down loaded information from the internet is useless if you still can not mention where the fuel is currently sold!

navegator

Guys go back and read the original posting, it is asking if anyone finds any gas station selling ULSD to post the location here, instead we get a disertation from articles that are found on the internet about refineries and whether Pemex is building new ones or not, stuff that is completlly irrelevant to the original question.

Here is the opening line of the original post....

At the end of the year competitive stations will have the freedom to purchase fuel from other sources other than pemex.

I posted that I had read that the law to allow purchasing from other sources and stations other than Pemex was to begin April 1, 2016. I also posted that I read that refineries were being upgraded to produce ULSD in Mexico. I also posted that I heard Gulf for one was planning to open stations in Mexico. I thought all of this was relevant to the original statement I quoted above. All of this came from articles I posted in previous threads relative to ULSD in Mexico. I mentioned pipelines I saw being built in TX but I have no idea what that might have to do with any of this. The sentence above in the quote is what my posts were addressing. I addressed the other part of the original post by saying I read they are working on upgrading refineries to produce ULSD - though I have no idea when or where this will happen.

I thought you were long haul truckers, I guess I assumed you delivered to distribution centers and not to stores and understood the business.
A person can not open a book, read chapter 6, 11 and 17 and think they have a clue what is happening. That pretty much sums up your knowledge and understanding of the business.
Twisting my statements or misunderstanding or just being argumentative is the question of the day. I never once said they were not spending money on their refineries, I said they were not building new refineries.
Do your own research if you really care.

I have no idea where this is coming from. I am not trying to be argumentative - I am trying to get answers to questions.

I was a long haul trucker throughout the 80s. Nothing to do with Mexico or distribution in Mexico. I never hauled or distributed fuel of any kind. All I know about fuel distribution is what I posted. Refineries produce fuel and sell it to many different companies. Gulf buys fuel from whoever they can - as do many other gas station companies.

I hauled 48 states and could have been going to people's houses with furniture - or distribution centers with things like meat - or stores with any number of things. I even hauled money from the Denver Mint. I hauled athletic footwear. I hauled Caterpillar tractor parts. I hauled bulk coffee beans. The list goes on. But I never ever hauled fuel. I even did local trucking of sand and gravel and drove a concrete mixer. None of this is relevant to this topic.

I never claimed to know anything. I thought I was asking questions. I never claimed to know anything about the fuel distribution business - I brought it up referencing Gulf and the fact that they buy and distribute fuel - they do not produce fuel - my thinking being they would probably be buying fuel in Mexico just as they do in the US. I really have no idea. Do you?

I read articles online that told of UPGRADES to existing refineries - no mention of NEW refineries. I never said word one about new refineries. There has been much talk about ULSD on this forum over the years. The articles I read and posted about upgrades to the existing refineries did include mention of ULSD which is the topic of this thread and the reason for my post.

You posted an article that told how production was down because they are not putting money into fixing the refineries. I just wondered about that article and what it says compared with what other articles say. My question had only to do with statements made in that article. After reading about the millions of $$$ being invested in upgrading and then this article you posted that said they are not investing I was curious about it and asked about it - I thought in a civilized manner - sorry I came across as offensive.

In the US when a couple few refineries shut down for spring cleaning or whatever there is suddenly a spike in fuel costs. Even with some 137 refineries in the US they claim if a couple are shut down for maintenance the fuel supply all over the country is affected and we all must pay. I don't believe it - but then who does. In Mexico there are 6 refineries and if they are undergoing even normal maintenance the fuel supply could be affected. I really have no idea. But if they really are doing upgrades this could have a serious affect on supply. I have no idea how or why this would cause prices at the pump to rise.

I think I brought up things like Gulf and pipelines because someone else did. At this point I do not recall and don't have time to read over this whole thread again.

I do not believe anything I read - or even much of what I see. I do not claim to know anything. I asked questions about how some articles say one thing and other articles say other things and where can the facts be found?


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