Has anyone been asked for a copy of their 8840 by US Border services when entering into the USA. I have never filled out one of those forms to date and I have spent the last 2 winters south of the border. However it has always been less than 6 months each time. I have read where it is a good policy to have proof that you have completed the form should the US Border services ask for it.Thanks for your replies

Stuff you should read....CARP Snowbirds

Keily wrote:Has anyone been asked for a copy of their 8840 by US Border services when entering into the USA. I have never filled out one of those forms to date and I have spent the last 2 winters south of the border. However it has always been less than 6 months each time. I have read where it is a good policy to have proof that you have completed the form should the US Border services ask for it.Thanks for your repliesEvery year there is a lot of angst and confusion surrounding the requirement for Canadians to file the dreaded 8840 Form. :EThere is much miss-information published and spread by word of mouth about this topic. Many don't understand the need to do so and some even appear to take offense that they are being asked to file.So, here are the facts............The first thing to understand, is that we are guests in the US and therefore subject to U.S. Law. Although we might not understand the reasons, if we fail to comply with the law, there can be serious repercussions and the fact that we are Canadians will not change that. As many of us spend multiple years down south every winter, failure to properly file with the IRS can lead to having to hire a tax lawyer at great expense.The second thing we need to understand is that if we meet the "Substantial Presence Test" as determined by the IRS, we MUST file a tax return, whether or not we have earned any income in the US. The purpose of the 8840 form is to claim a closer connection to another country (i.e. Canada) and thereby become exempt from having to file a tax return (1040NR).Flow Chart showing how this is all tied together.................... You can also get a printed copy at Click HereIn answer to the OPs question, it is rare to be asked if you have filed either a 1040NR or 8840, if they do ask and determine that you were a resident for tax purposes you can end up owing a lot of tax including tax on your World Income. Although you can argue this with the IRS, it will probably take a tax lawyer and a lot of time to straighten it out. The 15 minutes it takes to fill out the 8840 form and the stamp to mail it is cheap insurance.My wife and I fill out the form every year, and keep a copy in our papers when we travel to the US.

irs 8840"When and Where To FileIf you are filing a 2014 Form 1040NR orForm 1040NR-EZ, attach Form 8840 toit. Mail your tax return by the due date(including extensions) to the addressshown in your tax return instructions.If you do not have to file a 2014 taxreturn, mail Form 8840 to theDepartment of the Treasury, InternalRevenue Service Center, Austin, TX73301-0215 by the due date (includingextensions) for filing Form 1040NR orForm 1040NR-EZ."I am not seeing where the US Border Patrol should be involved with this at all. The form is filed with your tax returns not filed at the border. ??

I do not really understand this.If I spend four months per year in the US,do not own property there, have no income, earned or otherwisefrom America.Why should I be forced to fill out this form?I can see the tax implications if there is income,otherwise, what is the problem?

Sea Dog wrote:Why should I be forced to fill out this form?I can see the tax implications if there is income,otherwise, what is the problem?Because it's their law. No other answer is necessary.

8840 Form | Good Sam Community

alfredmay
Explorer
Oct 13, 2015
Gentlemen,

The USA does almost exactly what Canada does regarding taxes. If an American goes to Canada and stays past the 6 month allowable time period, they must then file for a Visa ($75), may be considered a temporary resident and then be subject to tax on their worldwide income.

http://settlement.org/ontario/daily-life/personal-finance/taxes/do-i-have-to-file-a-tax-return/
joebedford
Nomad II
Oct 12, 2015
Sea Dog wrote:
If it is, as it appears possible for the US to tax ones
world wide income,
Sux doesn't it. Why they feel they're entitled to world-wide income is beyond me.

how do they, the IRS, determine what this income is?

I cannot believe that they have access to income statements
generated in Canada, Europe or elsewhere!
You could try lying about your income on the 1040 they'll make you file.
Fizz
Explorer
Oct 12, 2015
Sea Dog wrote:
If it is, as it appears possible for the US to tax ones
world wide income,
how do they, the IRS, determine what this income is?

I cannot believe that they have access to income statements
generated in Canada, Europe or elsewhere!

They have access to your income statement when they force you to file a tax return.

Form 8840 is to avoid filing.
cruiserjs
Explorer
Oct 12, 2015
Thanks to bjbear
. That flow chart should help a lot of folks. I have several Canadian snow bird friends every winter and they(most of them) develop blank eyes when the 8840 form comes up!! I have made several copies of our flow chart for them.
Sea_Dog
Explorer
Oct 12, 2015
If it is, as it appears possible for the US to tax ones
world wide income,
how do they, the IRS, determine what this income is?

I cannot believe that they have access to income statements
generated in Canada, Europe or elsewhere!
Community Alumni
Oct 12, 2015
John & Angela wrote:
Tequila wrote:
I just take a week each way to transit the US on my way to Mexico where I winter out, I am guessing I would not need that form regardless, otherwise people going for week in summer would need them

8840 is a US IRS form. It has nothing to do with Mexico taxes or immigration and nothing to do with US immigration.

Correct, I was told exactly that at my wife's interview for her Nexus Card renewal in September. The US agent that we met with stated that they have no interaction with the IRS when I asked about 8840 requirements.
John___Angela
Explorer
Oct 12, 2015
Tequila wrote:
I just take a week each way to transit the US on my way to Mexico where I winter out, I am guessing I would not need that form regardless, otherwise people going for week in summer would need them

8840 is a US IRS form. It has nothing to do with Mexico taxes or immigration and nothing to do with US immigration.
Tequila
Explorer
Oct 12, 2015
I just take a week each way to transit the US on my way to Mexico where I winter out, I am guessing I would not need that form regardless, otherwise people going for week in summer would need them
Sea_Dog
Explorer
Oct 12, 2015
We are getting far afield from the 8840 form
which was the original question.

Crossing the border either way for work related travel
is an entirely different matter!
bob_nestor
Explorer III
Oct 12, 2015
joebedford wrote:
bob_nestor wrote:
The last time I was sent I ran into a Customs Officer who asked for a copy of my company's contract that authorized my visit, and I didn't have it so I was denied entry.
From watching the TV program Border Security, they should have offered you the option to withdraw your 'application' to enter Canada so that they didn't have to deny you.

Of course the rules may have changed since then.

Actually they did after denying me entry since I didn't have the paperworrk they wanted and I was watched as I went back to the US, but they still flagged me. Unless I have another "infraction" that flag will stay in place for 5 to 10 years from what one nice young Canadian Customs Agent told me.

I understood it was a matter of trying to protect Canada from foreign workers taking jobs in Canada that could have gone to a Canadian, which wasn't possible in this case.

My Canadian contacts told me that I should have told them I was just visiting or that I was going to Canada for a meeting, but that's not what I had declared on my US State Dept paperwork. I suspect people have been crossing in both directions for years using different stories on either side, but it's not a game one should try playing now that Canadian and US Customs are sharing so much data. It could land you in big trouble if they catch you!