Boondocking really exists?

"Minnesota ... One favorite is in the Superior National Forest just a short distance from the BWCAW, ... on a tiny lake which is a wide spot in the river. Eagles, beaver, moose, fox, deer, monster mosquitoes have all been spotted in or from this campsite."

Except for the mosquitoes, I love the Boundary Waters area. Want to take my kids and grandkids, one of these years. I have enjoyed my trips to the area in years past.

Less Stuff wrote:
Haven't seen any data but I would expect Privatized campgrounds to be more efficient than government run from Washington DC campgrounds.

Actually the problem is that the NFS is required to return a large percentage (85%) of the money it takes in (gross, not net) back to the general fund, not to the forest service. They were having to do the supervision, maintenance and cleaning on 15% of the funds they were taking in. So they started using private contractors who agree to take care of those things and sending a small amount to the FS (typically 5-15%), who then sends the required 85% of that amount to the general fund. But the FS doesn't have to take care of general maintenance that way. More efficient? No way to know, but CG rates have gone up far faster than inflation at the CG's I know about. In CO, concessionaire-run CG’s often cost 50% more than NFS run CG’s. I know of concessionaire-run NFS CG's with pit toilets where the rates are equivalent to nearby private CG's with FHU. Don't know about efficiencies there. With rates so high and people deciding to boondock instead, the concessionaires are pressuring the NFS to close down nearby boondocking locations to help keep the CG's full and money flowing into the coffers of the concessionaires.
And the government often pays for campground upgrades and then the concessionaire raises the campground fees. The concessionaire didn’t pay for the upgrades, but get to make a lot more money from us, the ones who paid for these improvements through tax dollars, not campground fees. I wish I could have gotten the government to pay for my company’s capital improvements so we could have charged more for our product!
Want to fix this? Convince Washington that 100% of the funds collected from camping fees go back into the campgrounds or the NFS office that they are collected from. This is one reason why one sees so many places that have a Fee Demonstration Project label on them -- the appropriate agency gets to keep 100% of the revenue generated at those sites instead of a big percentage going back to the general fund. But I’m not holding my breath.

Less Stuff wrote:

rehoppe wrote:
In Colo., Boondocking is not as easy as it used to be.

A bunch of years ago Congress had the 'bright idea' of Privatizing the management of the Campgrounds. So they cut the Forestservice budget, and started taking bids from Companies to manage the CGs. Very quickly a lot of CGs that had been free because they didn't have water available,,,, were not longer free.

Shortly after that the signs started to appear 'No Overnight Parking'. These all seemed to be within 5 miles or so of the FS CGs. Imagine that!

Just a bit more difficult now.

Edit: And of course the prices at the CGs, have gone up too. Also, the 'Management' leaves on or about Labor Day. They lock the gates and leave. So using those CGs during the fall is not an option anymore either.

So much for 'Privatization'!!!!

NEVER was and Never will be a free campground anywhere.

Who should pay?
Those that use them or those who don't and never will.

It's always nice to get others to help pay for your fun.

Haven't seen any data but I would expect Privatized campgrounds to be more efficient than government run from Washington DC campgrounds.

Once spoke to a Ranger in Arizona and he related some of the vandalism and problems they have in campgrounds and why they did not use the Iron Rangers for payments.

We users are the problem!

I just remember when the FS did the 'operation' and see now what is in place. Not to mention the 'gated property' syndrome, the Private 'Management' companies utilize. You'd think They owned the CG, rather than 'we the people'.

On your point that 'we the users' are the problem...... only partially true, as the CGs are now operated on a 'profit margin/bottom line' basis. And since we now pay for not one but TWO management teams????

Oh, and the 'hosts' are paid as well. No bone to pick with the hosts,,,, but the hosts used to be volunteers.... their checks get added to/subtracted from, the bottom line as well.

AS to your statement of ''never was and never will be free''...... you are correct. except that now we get to pay twice for the same 'free' campground. If you are associated with the operation of the FS CGs that are operated this way, you know what I mean.

Unless of course you don't pay taxes... then you're only paying once. LOL

rehoppe wrote:
In Colo., Boondocking is not as easy as it used to be.

A bunch of years ago Congress had the 'bright idea' of Privatizing the management of the Campgrounds. So they cut the Forestservice budget, and started taking bids from Companies to manage the CGs. Very quickly a lot of CGs that had been free because they didn't have water available,,,, were not longer free.

Shortly after that the signs started to appear 'No Overnight Parking'. These all seemed to be within 5 miles or so of the FS CGs. Imagine that!

Just a bit more difficult now.

Edit: And of course the prices at the CGs, have gone up too. Also, the 'Management' leaves on or about Labor Day. They lock the gates and leave. So using those CGs during the fall is not an option anymore either.

So much for 'Privatization'!!!!

NEVER was and Never will be a free campground anywhere.

Who should pay?
Those that use them or those who don't and never will.

It's always nice to get others to help pay for your fun.

Haven't seen any data but I would expect Privatized campgrounds to be more efficient than government run from Washington DC campgrounds.

Once spoke to a Ranger in Arizona and he related some of the vandalism and problems they have in campgrounds and why they did not use the Iron Rangers for payments.

We users are the problem!

profdant139 wrote:
Just so you know, ripping out those gates would probably be a federal crime. Just sayin' . . . .

Right you are. The old phrase "there oughta be a law" is in vogue here too.

Oh, that's right, there already is .......

profdant139 wrote:
By the way, Magilla, if you are interested in seeing what a boondocking site looks like, here are some photos, mostly in California and Arizona:

Photos of boondocking sites

As was mentioned earlier, come on out West for a few weeks, if you'd like to camp miles from everyone else! Boondocking is not an easy process, but it is fun.

Nice pics. I have come to a narrow dead end with a 38' toy hauler. You would be surprised how creative you can get in a situation like that. LOL

By the way, Magilla, if you are interested in seeing what a boondocking site looks like, here are some photos, mostly in California and Arizona:

Photos of boondocking sites

As was mentioned earlier, come on out West for a few weeks, if you'd like to camp miles from everyone else! Boondocking is not an easy process, but it is fun.

Motor Vehicle Use Maps (MVUM) are available for each National Forest. Most for these show areas where free dispersed camping is allowed within specified distances of roads. If you camp in these areas don't be a slob and potentially ruin it for the rest of us.

Just so you know, ripping out those gates would probably be a federal crime. Just sayin' . . . .

mrkoje wrote:

rehoppe wrote:
In Colo., Boondocking is not as easy as it used to be.

A bunch of years ago Congress had the 'bright idea' of Privatizing the management of the Campgrounds. So they cut the Forestservice budget, and started taking bids from Companies to manage the CGs. Very quickly a lot of CGs that had been free because they didn't have water available,,,, were not longer free.

Shortly after that the signs started to appear 'No Overnight Parking'. These all seemed to be within 5 miles or so of the FS CGs. Imagine that!

Just a bit more difficult now.

Edit: And of course the prices at the CGs, have gone up too. Also, the 'Management' leaves on or about Labor Day. They lock the gates and leave. So using those CGs during the fall is not an option anymore either.

So much for 'Privatization'!!!!

Around here those gates would get ripped out if some private company were to "lock" them.

:B I've 'heard' that is the case around here as well. ;)