Border closings

Actually when snowbirds came home in the spring many of them were shamed into staying in quaratine. Many were reported to the police. Canada should use one of the nany apps.

JaxDad wrote:
I think the part most people are missing in all of this ‘flying’ discussion is the quarantine part.

A quarantine is very easy to do and enforce when you fly directly into a destination city.

When the destination is a 3, 4, 5 or more day drive from the border it’s not nearly so easy to do or enforce.

That's more or less what we've been told Jaxdad. As I for one couldn't get my head around why mixed bubble air flights versus own self contained car/rv bubble, but it made somewhat a little more sense when explained to us as follows by CBA official.

It is far easier for them to control air travellers and check up that they are quarantining than it is to control several auto border crossings back and forth especially with so many that would be crossing for just a day or two back and forth shopping etc, and those travelling over several days stopping and starting from a tracking perspective of virus.

Seeing what's happening in the UK/France numbers right now and a looming second lockdown if the public don't start adhering to COVID protocols, and just generally rising numbers in several countries it would make sense for them to keep the border closed as well implement more stiffer penalties for those not adhering to STAY SAFE TO STAY OPEN mandates.

Believe me I don't like this any more than the next person, but it's got this bad purely because too many aren't adhering to the suggested way of handling oneself today.

FWIW: I visited with a prospective client yesterday and asked what his take was with COVID-19, as he would potentially be exposed moreso if we did business, he said "it's all political, doesn't worry me in the slightest" :S. So therein lies what's helping to contribute to higher spread rates again.

moisheh wrote:
Allowing snowbirds across is a no brainer. Canadians still in Canada would not be affected in any way. When the snowbirds return they would self quarantine . Here's hoping.

And to that end each country could set there own standards for quarantine. I doubt Americans would agree to any kind of quarantine, liberty, freedom etc etc, but Canada could continue to impose the quarantine and satisfy the public desire. Win win.

I think the part most people are missing in all of this ‘flying’ discussion is the quarantine part.

A quarantine is very easy to do and enforce when you fly directly into a destination city.

When the destination is a 3, 4, 5 or more day drive from the border it’s not nearly so easy to do or enforce.

Allowing snowbirds across is a no brainer. Canadians still in Canada would not be affected in any way. When the snowbirds return they would self quarantine . Here's hoping.

Magicbus wrote:
I do not see anything in the Treaty of Ghent where the US and Great Britain negotiated "mutual agreement" or "veto power" on opening and closing the Canadian border.

Good morning all.

.....the US / Canada border transiting protocols fall under the new post 911 US-Canada agreement for "border security". Under the "US Canada Joint Initiative" between Canada and US Homeland Security, it is called a, "collaborative and reciprocal measure", the land closure.

link->

The US umbrella initiative is called "The DHS Response for Coronavirus".

link->

So, in my humble opinion, I believe that the US will open the land border to Canadians undertaking non-discretional southbound multi-month snowbird travel before 2021, under some yet-to-be-published set of screening criteria. I know this sounds counterintuitive, but this is my gut feeling.....cheers

JaxDad wrote:
Quebec has become Canada’s ‘hotspot’, as an example, it has a population of ~8.5 million and ~68k cases or about 800 / 100,000 people.

By comparison Ontario has ~14.25 million and ~47k cases or about 330 / 100,000 people or about 40% of Quebec’s infection rate.

The fact that a huge percentage of Quebec’s population is concentrated in a handful of urban Centers further complicates things.

Exactly. Also, recall that at the height of "the 1st covid-19 wave", Quebec had the 3rd highest mortality rate in the World. And at one point, Montreal's mortality rate was higher than the highest New York City borough death rates.

Tvov wrote:
Wow, are you serious? I have not heard about Canada being in that bad shape??

....its not in "that bad shape", it is in worse shape than every country in the World not embroiled in a war. If you need emergency care today here during this covid-19 situation, you'd better bring breakfast, lunch and supper for up to 2 or 3 days. Headlines like, "Quebec Ranked #1 In The "World" For Longest Hospital ER Wait Times"....this was published just 2.5 years before covid-19 hit. According to the report's findings, "Quebec has the worst/longest emergency room wait times in the entire western world". Only 2 hospitals in the Province had wait times less than 121.5 minutes, for a population of over 8 million.

Site the 106 page Salois Report.

Tvov wrote:

silversand wrote:
....

We really do not want to be trapped up here for the winter. Our hospitals are already at catastrophic overflow (huge waits across all hospitals in Quebec, as I type). For us, our particular Florida destination will be a much safer place this winter, case and health-care wise compared with our horrible collapsed health care system, here (just check our covid stats and track record). Caveat: traveling, of course, under a covid inclusive travel insurance, and practicing hard distancing/mask behavior.

Wow, are you serious? I have not heard about Canada being in that bad shape??

Quebec has become Canada’s ‘hotspot’, as an example, it has a population of ~8.5 million and ~68k cases or about 800 / 100,000 people.

By comparison Ontario has ~14.25 million and ~47k cases or about 330 / 100,000 people or about 40% of Quebec’s infection rate.

The fact that a huge percentage of Quebec’s population is concentrated in a handful of urban Centers further complicates things.

Tvov wrote:

silversand wrote:
....

We really do not want to be trapped up here for the winter. Our hospitals are already at catastrophic overflow (huge waits across all hospitals in Quebec, as I type). For us, our particular Florida destination will be a much safer place this winter, case and health-care wise compared with our horrible collapsed health care system, here (just check our covid stats and track record). Caveat: traveling, of course, under a covid inclusive travel insurance, and practicing hard distancing/mask behavior.

Wow, are you serious? I have not heard about Canada being in that bad shape??

It’s not. It’s an opinion. Certainly nothing like that where we are.