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VintageRacer's avatar
VintageRacer
Explorer
Jan 17, 2015

Clarification on rules for Canadian length of stay in US

Articles hitting the papers today on length of stay allowed for Canadians in the US. Everyone seems to think the allowance is 182 days per year, and while that is true, it isn't the whole story. Apologies if this is well known, I just learned about it today.

The rule is indeed up to 182 days per year. The kicker is that until now, the various governments couldn't actually measure the length of stay, but now USA and Canada are combining their exit date data to gain knowledge of the accumulated number of days someone is in the US. While the allowance is indeed 182 days per year, there is a more complicated formula for US income tax purposes as opposed to simply immigration regulations.

That regulation is no more than 182 days for the total of the current year, plus 1/3 of the stay for the first previous year, plus 1/6 of the stay for the second previous year. So you basically have a maximum of 4 months per year (122 days works out to 183 days under that formula) on a continuous basis, year after year.

Since that is the rule for income tax and not immigration, there is a form that can be filled out to waive the rule. It basically establishes a greater connection, based on family, real estate and home ownership, etc. With that form approved, you can stay for 182 days per year on a continuous basis. Details here; http://www.mnp.ca/en/media-centre/blog/2011/2/1/canadians-wintering-in-the-us

None of the rules are new, the new part is now they can actually track the numbers, which they really could not do in the customs booth before. The form is IRS Form 8840, and it needs to be submitted before June 15th of the year following the year you stayed too long for the first time, or you will theoretically owe US income tax on your world-wide earnings and possessions.

Brian

18 Replies

  • Fulltimewanna.... When we started fulltiming years ago we surveyed Canadians staying in parks we visited in the winter down south. (non scientific...we just asked Canadians we talked to) In the first couple of years I'd say only about 10% or less filled out the 8840. (we have filled it out for the last 8 years) Since then more and more seem to fill it out but I'd guess that only about 50% of those we talk to who spend close to 180 days/yr fill it out. We still talk to a number who pay no attention to the 6 month rule and routinely stay longer and lots who workcamp in the USA for free sites.
  • Spent many hours tonight trying to pull together mine versus hubby's days present in the USA the past 3 years. Memory's not as good going back beyond last year (LOL).

    Anyway's it appears that he works out at 186 days based on the full amount of 2014, third of 2013 and sixth of 2012. I don't come in even close to half of his number of fishing days there (LOL).

    The CSA advises that even if you don't meet the number of days required but own permanent property down there you should complete the form anyways. Any thoughts on that comment?

    I'm not sure but thought I read somewhere that if you didn't complete this 8840 form and the IRS pulled you up you'd be fined, but couldn't establish whether this fine was effective whether you proved your connection adequately to Canada or not after being red flagged, just by not having completed 8840 and submitted prior to 15th June.

    I'd love to know how many Canadian RVers that average staying in the USA more than 122 days a year based on the formula over the 3 previous years suggested actually have been submitting these 8840 forms to the IRS? Are we best to do this or because we have property, licensed vehicles, bills, tax returns etc to prove our connection to Canada, just leave well alone?

    Sorry for all the Q's, we are just slowly edging our way into retirement and spending more and more time down south, albeit not exceeding the 182 day rule (highest number days for hubby was 157 in 2013). We just don't want to get involved deeper than we need to but also don't want to risk getting fined.

    Thanks,
  • Seems like the US fed guvment is doing their best to scare away tourism?

    I think the states of Florida, Arizona, Texas, and others who really appreciate the dollars that the Canadians bring to their states should step up and try and make this a non-issue.

    I for one will spend over $10,000 in the USA this year. That comes out of my gov't pensions and my own savings. Not a dollar earned in the USA so if they decide to tax it I guess I will just not be able to come on down.

    O well, its just $10,000 x how many others will stop coming.
    Will be MILLIONS of lost income for those states.. GONE..

    Remember when Florida "BRIEFLY" had the law that a Canadian drivers license was no good!! Had to get an International one..
    They saw the light pretty darn quick.
  • That article was painfully shy on the details, so I thought I would fill them in.

    Brian

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