Crippling insurance costs

J & A: You truly are leading the good life!

Moisheh

moisheh wrote:
John and Angela: I saw where you posted that hospital costs are more or less the same across Canada. It is my understanding that this is not quite correct. I know that BC charges more than Manitoba. I will see if I can find that info. The Canada health act is very weak and hardly any province follows that act I think it is Quebec that provides no medication coverage outside of Quebec. In Manitoba surgeons are very inexpensive but if the operation is performed in Manitoba they get some sort of huge extra payment from a pool. Outside the province Manitoba Health only pays the basic amount.

Moisheh

Hey Moisheh. Nice to hear from you. Hope you guys are doing well.

From what I gather there are differences but I'll qualify my statement of generally the same as meaning no wild swings of let's say one province being 3 times the cost of another. There are also changes in regimens meaning for example, at 50 in BC you get your first colonoscopy whereas in Alberta it is 55. (Ask me how I know ??).

Canadians tend to over insure but a lot has to do with the individuals health, family history and of course budget. Everybody has there comfort zone.

We are hanging out in Palm Springs this year and saving our pennies.we spent part of last spring in Spain again spending our way through the country. This year we are planning and saving for our foray thru Argentina and Peru. Long LONG plane ride. Too much to see and not enough time (or money). ????

John and Angela: I saw where you posted that hospital costs are more or less the same across Canada. It is my understanding that this is not quite correct. I know that BC charges more than Manitoba. I will see if I can find that info. The Canada health act is very weak and hardly any province follows that act I think it is Quebec that provides no medication coverage outside of Quebec. In Manitoba surgeons are very inexpensive but if the operation is performed in Manitoba they get some sort of huge extra payment from a pool. Outside the province Manitoba Health only pays the basic amount.

Moisheh

John & Angela wrote:
Yah it's difficult to get information for rates for non residents...

....remember that the average Canadian doctors are paying only ~ $20,000 to $23,000 in "administration fees" per annum because they deal with just 1 single-payer agency. In the US, doctors are paying $80,000++ per annum because they have 3 payer agencies to contend with.

Also, compare the costs of every medical test and procedure (A : B them one at a time), and you'll clearly see that the US costs for identical procedures and tests are from 30% to over 70% more costly.

Also, look at health care expenditure as a share of GDP:

The US is a staggering 17.4 compared with the World average of 9.6 (for OECD countries, excluding the US) and Canada's at 11.4 (Canada is pretty high, too!).

Global Assist is now owned by the giant UHC and rates are far less than what anyone else is quoting. Despite having BC&BS - when we visited Cuba this year, we bought their repatriation policy/

alfredmay wrote:
I don't know where you are getting your information from but here is info for rates in Vancouver from 2012. It shows an emergency room visit is $725, the daily ward rate is $3235 and intensive care is $8120. These are non resident rates. Uninsured resident rates vary from about 1/4 to 2/3 of the non resident rate depending on the hospital.

The link is from David Cummings Insurance Services Limited. His company suggests buying at least a $50,000 policy for Americans visiting Canada.
http://www.david-cummings.com/documents/canadian_hospital_rates.htm

HealthQuotes.ca paints a more expensive picture.
http://www.healthquotes.ca/blog/2012/07/05/Canadian+Hospital+Costs.aspx
This info is from 2012 and is for non residents. It seems to show that health care costs for hospitals is not the same across Canada. Looks like a 19 day stay in BC would run around $65,000 without any time in ICU. In the prairies 3 days in ICU and 10 days in a regular ward could run $98,000.

REGION
DAILY WARD
INTENSIVE CARE

Ontario
$1,724 - $3,324
$3,048 - $5,785

Prairies*
$3,148 - $4,998
$8,233 - $16,000

British Columbia
$3,235 - $3,385
$8,120 - $12,350

As an American I can see that a hospital stay in Canada could be quite expensive if I am not covered by insurance. My government supplied US Medicare policy and my former employer's retirement policy do not cover me in Canada unless I am traveling directly to Alaska.

Yah it's difficult to get information for rates for non residents. Research what you can and find that comfort zone. It gets even more difficult for Europe as each country has it's own rate and of course the language barrier. I speak read and write 4 languages and that helps somewhat.

Cheers.

alfredmay wrote:

As an American I can see that a hospital stay in Canada could be quite expensive if I am not covered by insurance. My government supplied US Medicare policy and my former employer's retirement policy do not cover me in Canada unless I am traveling directly to Alaska.

a good idea to remember this. any time you are in Canada your final destination will be Alaska. in fact, make a non-guaranteed reservation there at a motel.
bumpy

I don't know where you are getting your information from but here is info for rates in Vancouver from 2012. It shows an emergency room visit is $725, the daily ward rate is $3235 and intensive care is $8120. These are non resident rates. Uninsured resident rates vary from about 1/4 to 2/3 of the non resident rate depending on the hospital.

The link is from David Cummings Insurance Services Limited. His company suggests buying at least a $50,000 policy for Americans visiting Canada.
http://www.david-cummings.com/documents/canadian_hospital_rates.htm

HealthQuotes.ca paints a more expensive picture.
http://www.healthquotes.ca/blog/2012/07/05/Canadian+Hospital+Costs.aspx
This info is from 2012 and is for non residents. It seems to show that health care costs for hospitals is not the same across Canada. Looks like a 19 day stay in BC would run around $65,000 without any time in ICU. In the prairies 3 days in ICU and 10 days in a regular ward could run $98,000.

REGION
DAILY WARD
INTENSIVE CARE

Ontario
$1,724 - $3,324
$3,048 - $5,785

Prairies*
$3,148 - $4,998
$8,233 - $16,000

British Columbia
$3,235 - $3,385
$8,120 - $12,350

As an American I can see that a hospital stay in Canada could be quite expensive if I am not covered by insurance. My government supplied US Medicare policy and my former employer's retirement policy do not cover me in Canada unless I am traveling directly to Alaska.

happycamper,

Blue Cross are in the business of making their shareholders money. I don't blame them--my business has to make money, too.

happycamper1942 wrote:

John & Angela wrote:

happycamper1942 wrote:

pianotuna wrote:
Since health care costs about the same in Europe as it does in Canada there is no need for supplemental insurance, other than repatriation.

happycamper1942 wrote:
I'm interested inwWhat do you pay for insurance for going to Europe? Is it any less than what you pay for going to the US?

I would check that very carefully if I was you. Here in BC I was advised by Blue Cross to take out extra insurance if I just went to other parts of Canada.

Two things. Depending on which country in Europe procedural and hospitalization costs can vary. None are really expensive but be aware.

Getting insurance for travelling from province to province can be handy for covering ambulance or air ambulance costs but cost schedules for procedure or hospitalization are questionable as they are roughly the same through out Canada. (Canada health act). It may prevent some out of pocket costs that you will have to claim back. Everybody has different comfort zones for insurance. Many over insure.

Good answer, especially about people having different comfort zones. Ive heard lots of horror stories about people being refused payment for seemingly trivial things, but these were probably all from the USA. I guess my comfort level is low, I worked too hard to get what I have to risk losing it by taking a chance.

Yepir. The other thing is the persons health. Previous history etc. We count on and are comfortable with and prepare for 25000 per person of medical on a trip. That pretty much covers anything in Europe. We know we would get some back, maybe not all. It is our comfort zone. A quadruple bypass with a 19 day hospital stay comes in around 11000 euros. Not far off what it would cost in Canada (if you were a foreigner having it done). Traveling in you personal comfort zone to your financial situation makes for a relaxed trip.