Empty parks with no open sites.

ferndaleflyer wrote:
I don't do state parks and such but in the past I have rented out about everything to others and have rented about as much for my own use. And if this in fact goes on its just asking for trouble unless it is made very plain in the contract that you can keep my money or lease my spot to someone else just because I am not there. You have to reserve and pay a year in advance and then show up late to find someone else has your spot? Get real. They keep a weeks worth of money for a year and don't have a spot for you? It would take a fool to fall for that trap. Now if it is made plain in the contract that this goes on after you have to pay a year out, I wouldn't go near the place...I don't think I have ever been sent a contract when reserving a camp site. So much for reading the FINE print. Does this really go on?

There are plenty of boxes to check that state you agree and understand the cancellation policies no fine print to read. If you haven't seen a contract you certainly have not stayed at a state park recently.
It is common practice with boxes to check to ensure you understand the policies. If you fail to check the box your reservation will cease at that point and it will not be processed.
Lots of us fools fall for that trap because we understand that the idea is to actually use the camp site vs. leaving it vacant because you can afford to.
If this policy, keeps no show types away and eliminates careless vacancies than it is working as designed and is a very worthwhile policy.

ferndaleflyer wrote:
I don't do state parks and such but in the past I have rented out about everything to others and have rented about as much for my own use. And if this in fact goes on its just asking for trouble unless it is made very plain in the contract that you can keep my money or lease my spot to someone else just because I am not there. You have to reserve and pay a year in advance and then show up late to find someone else has your spot? Get real. They keep a weeks worth of money for a year and don't have a spot for you? It would take a fool to fall for that trap. Now if it is made plain in the contract that this goes on after you have to pay a year out, I wouldn't go near the place...I don't think I have ever been sent a contract when reserving a camp site. So much for reading the FINE print. Does this really go on?

There are policies listed for every campground on recreation.gov. In addition to those policies listed on the agency's website. And your confirmation email will state the cancellation requirements. No one is "shocked" because their spot got cancelled because they didn't show.

And if you could manage making a reservation 6-12 months in advance, surely you're capable of calling the park and telling them "I had an emergency and won't be able to arrive until tomorrow, could you hold my campsite?"

I agree with those folks criticizing those who pay for and hog sites for many days and are no shows to never use them or release the sites. Just another form of selfish. When I full timed many places were first come first serve and I had no problems finding a site upon arrival. Both private and public campgrounds could still save a percentage of sites for first come first served without losing money and those sites would still be used as filled up in popular locations.

I always avoided the must-see places for the most part. I have seen same
type of great scenery in other western locations as found in some NPs to satisfy my cravings. Don't need the overcrowding found in NPs. Many national forests are just as scenic as

Will not be viewing any more comments so save your ammo. Cheers

I don't do state parks and such but in the past I have rented out about everything to others and have rented about as much for my own use. And if this in fact goes on its just asking for trouble unless it is made very plain in the contract that you can keep my money or lease my spot to someone else just because I am not there. You have to reserve and pay a year in advance and then show up late to find someone else has your spot? Get real. They keep a weeks worth of money for a year and don't have a spot for you? It would take a fool to fall for that trap. Now if it is made plain in the contract that this goes on after you have to pay a year out, I wouldn't go near the place...I don't think I have ever been sent a contract when reserving a camp site. So much for reading the FINE print. Does this really go on?

phillyg wrote:
Don't know about the OP's particular circumstances, but I've been told in FL state parks, and in retail parks, once the reservation is made they cannot book someone else in it. I've seen sites empty for a week at a time, yet the park shows no vacancy. It's very frustrating.

You've heard wrong regarding FL state parks:

"No Shows"

"Park staff will hold reserved campsites or cabins until the applicable check-out time, one day after the scheduled arrival date. In the event that campers do not arrive for their reservation and the camper does not call the park directly to cancel, the remainder of the reservation will be canceled as a no-show. The remaining balance of the reservation, if any, will be refunded."

RESERVATION INFORMATION

valhalla360 wrote:

cptqueeg wrote:
A CG has a duty to hold a pre-paid reservation for some amount of time which is up for discussion. And it is different if it's prepaid.

The issue of empty spots partly stems from the policy of allowing booking of sites that aren't available by booking days ahead of the desired period so days that aren't available to all now can be booked. Rec.gov has a 10 day waiting period after which reservations can be modified to release those nights, but some people don't and that leads to many unused sites.

It's people gaming the system. They have to open the sites to reservations at some point.
- If you base it on the first day of the reservation, the gamers book the week before and then cancel or just don't show up for the first week.
- If you base it on the last day of the reservation, those wanting to stay a week or two get shut out as weekenders take all the spots before the week-longers can book.

Really, not allowing reservation changes and your site is open to rebooking if you don't show up is the fairest option.

Yes, there is a holding period (usually the next morning or check in time the next day) but you should also call to confirm if you won't be showing up on time. That would allow the staff the option to release the site or not.

I agree.

In the end, different parks have different rules. Private campgrounds are more likely to follow a "if you paid for it, it's yours whether you use it or not". Public campgrounds are more likely to follow a "use it or lose it" policy.

The camphost at Lassen told me that if the no show camper called to cancel - even the day after the scheduled arrival dat - they would get their entire reservation fee refunded. By not calling, they forfeited one night's fee.

cptqueeg wrote:
A CG has a duty to hold a pre-paid reservation for some amount of time which is up for discussion. And it is different if it's prepaid.

The issue of empty spots partly stems from the policy of allowing booking of sites that aren't available by booking days ahead of the desired period so days that aren't available to all now can be booked. Rec.gov has a 10 day waiting period after which reservations can be modified to release those nights, but some people don't and that leads to many unused sites.

It's people gaming the system. They have to open the sites to reservations at some point.
- If you base it on the first day of the reservation, the gamers book the week before and then cancel or just don't show up for the first week.
- If you base it on the last day of the reservation, those wanting to stay a week or two get shut out as weekenders take all the spots before the week-longers can book.

Really, not allowing reservation changes and your site is open to rebooking if you don't show up is the fairest option.

Yes, there is a holding period (usually the next morning or check in time the next day) but you should also call to confirm if you won't be showing up on time. That would allow the staff the option to release the site or not.

A CG has a duty to hold a pre-paid reservation for some amount of time which is up for discussion. And it is different if it's prepaid.

The issue of empty spots partly stems from the policy of allowing booking of sites that aren't available by booking days ahead of the desired period so days that aren't available to all now can be booked. Rec.gov has a 10 day waiting period after which reservations can be modified to release those nights, but some people don't and that leads to many unused sites.

Most all public park systems have a requirement to provide "recreational opportunities to all". That doesn't mean just to those people who can afford to pay for a site and not show.

In addition, you are not BUYING the campsite, you are renting it. As with most all rentals, if you don't show to collect the item, they will cancel your reservation and rent the item out to someone else. Rental cars, tool rentals, hotel rooms, etc - they all have a standard requirement that you arrive within a certain window or your reservation is cancelled.

This is no different. If you cannot arrive within the allowed window (usually identified as between check in on your planned arrival date and check out the following day), then you failed to meet the contract requirements and the contract is null and void.

As with other rental systems, if you call before hand and let them know you will be delayed, most businesses will hold the rental for you. But if you show up at a hotel 3 days after your planned arrival, don't expect to have a room.

ferndaleflyer wrote:
As I said, I already paid for it. That example you use don't hold any water. What its worth, what it is close to, etc don't matter if I have paid the price they ask far a spot I have fulfilled my obligation and they should provide me what I paid for for as long as I paid for it even if I am not there.

The agreement is you paid for it with the understanding you would occupy the site it. If you fail to occupy the so called sale is void and the site become available to the next person.