As was mentioned in another thread, it's alleged that people are gaming the system by staying two weeks, going away a day, returning for another two weeks etc; apparently they've strung together reservations this way. Perhaps the solution is to designate a region, the Keys for example, and make a rule that a unit could only be in a specific park or perhaps any park in that region for only 14 days out of 30. The COE operates this way.

FloridaReLoaded wrote:Well let me throw more fuel into the fire, I'm ranting about the ones that take over the Florida Keys state campgrounds in the winter. They have a monopoly on them and I've about had it! We also own a Condo in Florida and Florida is my permanent residence. I'm trying to set something up where I can go speak in Tallahassee explaining to them what's going on. I'm going to suggest that they use Ft Desoto in Pinellas County as a model. Where county residents can reserve sites up to 6 months in advance but in this case Florida residents would be able to reserve early. I don't think they are aware that campers are staying two weeks then move for a night then stay another two weeks so on and so on. The Florida Keys is the only campgrounds that needs this sort of thing implemented. So now your saying you would boycott, I don't think it would work. If you want to spend the winter in the Florida Keys do so in a private campground, state parks are not made for long term stays!!!As a Floridian, I would, of course, like an advantage in booking our parks in the Keys. For sake of accuracy, after one reaches the 14 night max stay, one must leave that specific park for three nights, then they can return for another 14 night max. So, if somebody has a strong ability to book, they can stay2 weeks in a park on the Keys, then move to another park (still in the Keys) for up to two weeks, then either back to that first park (or onto the third park in the Keys). They can stay a max of 56 nights in each park in a defined six month period, so if they are able to successfully book on line, they theoretically can be in the state parks in the Keys for 24 of 26 weeks (or 48 weeks a year). With such high demand, I like you point about a regional designation for parks in the Keys...if treated those three parks as one unit for camping reservations (14 nights stay any/all state parks in Keys, then lock out of all three for at least three nights; no more than 56 total nights (or maybe less) in any/all parks in the Keys in the defined six month period. I think it would be nice that the parks are available to many different people at reasonable rates for short periods (rather cheap rates for fewer people for many nights), so I would not mind seeing nightly rates climb for those staying more nights ( so for example, if nights 1-14 are $40/ night, nights 15-28 are $80/night and night 28-42 are $120/night and nights 43-56 are $160/night; though perhaps not for locals).

Stormy Eyes wrote:FloridaReLoaded wrote:Well let me throw more fuel into the fire, I'm ranting about the ones that take over the Florida Keys state campgrounds in the winter. They have a monopoly on them and I've about had it! We also own a Condo in Florida and Florida is my permanent residence. I'm trying to set something up where I can go speak in Tallahassee explaining to them what's going on. I'm going to suggest that they use Ft Desoto in Pinellas County as a model. Where county residents can reserve sites up to 6 months in advance but in this case Florida residents would be able to reserve early. I don't think they are aware that campers are staying two weeks then move for a night then stay another two weeks so on and so on. The Florida Keys is the only campgrounds that needs this sort of thing implemented. So now your saying you would boycott, I don't think it would work. If you want to spend the winter in the Florida Keys do so in a private campground, state parks are not made for long term stays!!!As a Floridian, I would, of course, like an advantage in booking our parks in the Keys. For sake of accuracy, after one reaches the 14 night max stay, one must leave that specific park for three nights, then they can return for another 14 night max. So, if somebody has a strong ability to book, they can stay2 weeks in a park on the Keys, then move to another park (still in the Keys) for up to two weeks, then either back to that first park (or onto the third park in the Keys). They can stay a max of 56 nights in each park in a defined six month period, so if they are able to successfully book on line, they theoretically can be in the state parks in the Keys for 24 of 26 weeks (or 48 weeks a year). With such high demand, I like you point about a regional designation for parks in the Keys...if treated those three parks as one unit for camping reservations (14 nights stay any/all state parks in Keys, then lock out of all three for at least three nights; no more than 56 total nights (or maybe less) in any/all parks in the Keys in the defined six month period. I think it would be nice that the parks are available to many different people at reasonable rates for short periods (rather cheap rates for fewer people for many nights), so I would not mind seeing nightly rates climb for those staying more nights ( so for example, if nights 1-14 are $40/ night, nights 15-28 are $80/night and night 28-42 are $120/night and nights 43-56 are $160/night; though perhaps not for locals).Thanks for clarifying a few things and you brought up some great ideas !!

There is an article in the Wash Post that says people are using computer bots to make reservations. The bot checks for cancellations every 15 mins and if it finds one it messages the person running it.

This is a "Dog-eat-dog world" you know! He who gets to the reservation hot line first wins the spot! Some plan very aggressively. Some are just not so aggressive and they loose out! But, no one is breaking any rules. I suppose the best you can do is talk to your local representatives and see if the "rules" can get changed. Meanwhile, I'm just SOL for Memorial Day in Indiana because I was one of those who was just not "aggressive". When we finally decided to go ahead and go out Memorial Day week-end, well ... everything was booked! I can't blame that on all the visitors to Indiana this week-end who are coming in from Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, and Kentucky! Just because we have this little annual event called The Indianapolis 500 ... well ... I should know better! So the "tourists" beat me (the local yocal) this year! Next year ... well ... I'll just need to reserve a campsite earlier! (It will probably rain anyway ... it seems to do that a lot on race day!)

"people are gaming the system"Certainly not the spirit of those rules if apparently legal to leave for a night or use a "bot" for a reservation. Need a rule rewrite and closer government scrutiny...unfortunately.

Florida State Parks | Good Sam Community

lizzie
Explorer
May 16, 2017
Some good ideas here, but please remember that many of the Parks are understaffed and do not have the personnel to do a lot of checking and verifying. I agree that a one-size fits all reservation policy should be reviewed and revamped. There is a lot of pressure for campsites in South Florida and the Keys, not so much in some other parks. There are also more options (State Forests, WMA's, Water Management recreational areas)in other places. As a previous poster noted, there is not much public space in the Keys. Personally, I would like to see Florida taxpayers get a break on reservations. For example: Native-Born Floridian (before 1940) = 1st priority. Paid property taxes in Florida for over 50 years; add 10 points. Florida state retiree; add 10 points, mother of a hard-working (and underpaid)Park Ranger; just show up and pick your site. lizzie
agesilaus
Explorer III
May 16, 2017
" I think, a maximum of 14 days within a calendar year would be fair. Of course, if you did that, some people would reserve under other names, which would be a rules violation."

NPS fixed that by requiring a photo ID to check into a site. That also fixes the problem with people selling reservations. The main problem with that would be coding the database to show how many days someone had camped there in the year.

The problem in the Keys is that there isn't any place to build new parks. Land down there is very very pricey, no surprise. Also my guess is that FSP are one of the few in the US that run in the black on budget.
RRinNFla
Explorer
May 16, 2017
I volunteer at a Florida SP. I can tell you that the Campground is the park's biggest revenue generator. So, I am in favor of the state expanding its campgrounds. They would easily pay for themselves. Financially, Florida state parks are in better shape than most states.

That said, the reality is that public space in the Keys is very limited. The state has no obligation to provide campsitesin a particular region. Deal with it. It would be possible, however, to enact length of stay rules that only apply to specific parks. I think, a maximum of 14 days within a calendar year would be fair. Of course, if you did that, some people would reserve under other names, which would be a rules violation.

Reserve America could also defeat bots, but they don't really have any incentive to do that.
Tvov
Explorer II
May 16, 2017
This happens all over. A couple state parks in Connecticut that are right on the water have people who seem to be able to stay there all summer, but there is a two week maximum. I have heard that they trade sites with friends - they only stay for two weeks at one site, then switch. I don't know for sure, only what I've heard.

The state parks seem to try to combat this by changing the reservation rules every few years, but people always seem to find ways around them.

It may be "following the rules", but it prevents the majority of people from enjoying prime campsites in the park.
agesilaus
Explorer III
May 16, 2017
At least Florida is expanding the number of parks, adding cg sites and rebuilding the cg sites to FHU. Something the NPS could take a lesson in. 450 cg sites in Yosemite for example is ridiculous in a park the size of Rhode Island. That's roughly one site per 2.4 sq. miles. FDEP is at least pro-visitor unlike the NPS>
NRALIFR
Explorer
May 16, 2017
CharlesinGA wrote:
".............

This is my thinking. The Publicly owned parks, be they local, state, or Federal, have an obligation to be available to all citizens, and by allowing a few number of people to stay, and stay, and stay, they make it impossible for the other citizens to use and enjoy those wonderful parks

I agree, and I also like the idea of a regional grouping of certain high-demand parks (like the Keys) to make them more available to everyone. It should actually be a stated goal or philosophy of the publicly owned parks that their facilities are not intended for seasonal stays. A reasonable maximum number of days should be decided on, then the rules should be written to, as much as possible, prevent exceeding that limit in the park or region for a three-month period of time.

I recall when I was making frequent business trips in my camper, I would stay at COE campgrounds whenever possible. It wasn't uncommon to see length-of-stay restrictions that would prevent you from staying more that 14 nights in a 90 day period at ANY of the campgrounds around a particular COE lake. I think they should do something like this in the Keys. From Key Largo to Key West, no more than xx nights in a 90 day period in any of the FL State Parks.

**** One final thought: If the publicly owned parks would state in writing that their facilities are not intended for seasonal stays, they could always fall back on that "rule" when someone figures out how to game the system to allow them to stay longer than they should.

:):)
bucky
Explorer II
May 16, 2017
Start using EBAY or the like and for certain sites or times of year have bidding for the sites.
This shortage of FL park sites in winter has been going on for years. Who would drive from MN and stay 2 days when they can stay 14?
CharlesinGA
Explorer
May 16, 2017
Stormy Eyes wrote:
I plan ahead. I am waiting at the computer to hit the button when reservations open. But I do not have a bot network. I do not have any special computer program. I do not even have an extended family all hitting buttons for me. As a full timer, I do not even have a great, high speed connection; just cell service or campground wifi. I'm not saying that people who have some of those things are acting badly or gaming the system; just not easily within my grasp.

So even if rules are altered somewhat, I might not get a spot at Bahia Honda or another state park in the keys in the winter. I understand that and I can live with that (plenty of other pretty spots in other parks). Still, even if I am not among them, I would rather many people get to enjoy our state's wonderful campgrounds in the Keys for short periods each, rather than fewer people getting those slots for many nights. And if somebody does spend many nights at those exceptionally high demand parks, I would not mind seeing that person pay prices for some of those nights ( as they would at private parks).

This is my thinking. The Publicly owned parks, be they local, state, or Federal, have an obligation to be available to all citizens, and by allowing a few number of people to stay, and stay, and stay, they make it impossible for the other citizens to use and enjoy those wonderful parks.

I also suspect that long timers don't spend the dollars on eating out at the famous seafood restaurants, spending money on other "touristy" things, that help the local economy more than someone living in their RV for the winter just to enjoy good weather. Its hard to quantify, but short term vacationers are much better for the economy than "residents".

Charles
johnhicks
Explorer
May 16, 2017
I tried to get Memorial Day in Indiana but ended up in Tupelo! LOL
Stormy_Eyes
Explorer
May 16, 2017
rockhillmanor wrote:
Again, who cares how long a person stays at the Park?

If they want to come and then leave and come back again so be it.

They are abiding by the rules and paying for the site.

I care. I'd much rather see 20 different families each spend a week in the parks in the Keys rather than one snowbird couple spending 20 weeks.