National Park Service has it all wrong!!??

Yes, I would gladly pay $50 for a life time senior pass.

valhalla360 wrote:


I suspect the truth lies somewhere between. As the old saying goes law making and sausage making have a lot in common and you don't want to watch either process if you have a weak stomach. I certainly wouldn't take any "official" justification at face value.

My take on it is the management at the national parks took the deal because it provided dedicated funding rather than fighting for general fund tax dollars, not because they think it makes any sense to give a huge discount to people who would go to the parks anyway.

The Senior pass goes back much farther than FLREA and was in place in 1973. It was actually free back then, so they've increased the price. It entitled the holder to free entrance and 50% discount on things like camping, but not on concession-run operations, similar to today. The Golden Eagle (equivalent to America the Beautiful pass for non-seniors) cost $10, was good for a year and only allowed free entrance, no discount (same as today).
Documentation here: Link

FLREA didn't just come about overnight. There was a previous program called Recreation Fee Demo (for demonstration), for several years as a trial period. Fee Demo began in 1996 as a trial program to see the effectiveness of charging for certain recreation programs and having the money stay at the unit that collected it, to be used for operations and maintenance above and beyond what normal allocated (force-account) funds would allow. The FLREA was enacted in 2004 after the Fee Demo program was in place for 8 years. And the Senior (Golden Age) and Regular pass (Golden Eagle) had been in place for over 30 years.

I am well aware of these programs because as a Recreation Manager at a large national forest, I was able to hire additional summer rangers, take on larger maintenance and improvement projects, and additional outdoor education programs. The Fee Demo and FLREA program resulted in having nearly $1M extra per year to put toward the Recreation resource.
More history on Fee Demo is here: Link

The FLREA also set up a process by which citizens as part of a formal Resource advisory committee which both reviews fees charged for recreation amenities and helps develop and approve projects that make use of FLREA collected funds. The Advisory Committees are formally established, made up of citizens from various sectors of use groups and meet on a regular basis. They are often looking for new members, so if you are interested in this, you should contact your local forest or park for information.
More info on Recreation Advisory Committees is here: Link


And finally, GAO did do a review of the (then) new Recreation Enhancement Act in 2006, and provided several suggestions to the agencies to improve their implementation and accounting. That report is here: Link

As I've said before, this is a complex program with many aspects.
I said I was done commenting, but there is a lot of mis-information being posted about the program. Of course, this is typical for an internet forum.

People are entitled to any opinion they wish to have.
If some think that the National Parks and Forests and suffering because of the Senior Pass, I guess they have every right to think so.

I believe that the senior pass is a good thing, and perhaps a recognition that after you've paid federal taxes for most of your lifetime, your government can reciprocate by welcoming you to visit the National Treasures of your country for free. Of course, this is just my opinion. No more valid than any other.

dewey02 wrote:

agesilaus wrote:
I can assure you that NPS hates the senior pass and has repeatedly tried to kill it. But Congress passed the law creating the card and refuses to change it.

There is a lot of speculation and numbers being thrown around in this thread. Let's go to the official NPS numbers:

Here's a quote from the 2016 NPS budget proposal:
"The Act is currently scheduled to expire in September 2016 as authorized in the Consolidated and Further Continuing Appropriations Act of 2015. The 2016 budget proposes a general provision (Section 413) to further extend authorization for FLREA (Federal Lands Rec. Enh. Act) through September 30, 2017, as a short-term alternative to proposed legislation for long-term reauthorization."
That sounds like support to me.

Through the Rec Enh. Act (of which America the Beautiful Pass is a part) the NPS pulled in an estimated $192.5 million in 2016.

Here's what it will take in 2016 to run the parks: $2.5 billion.
"The proposed FY 2016 funding level for this appropriation, which supports the operation of the nation's parks, the preservation and protection of the precious resources contained within, and the provision of recreational opportunities and enjoyment of these resources by current and future visitors is $2.5 billion, reflecting a net increase of $239.4 million over the FY 2015 enacted level, consisting of a series of targeted programmatic increases totaling $213.4 million and fixed cost increases totaling $25.3 million."

This is the Centennial Year for the NPS, so there is a bump in funding to accomodate some sprucing up as well as the expected increased visitation.

Running the parks and running its programs, including fee collections is a complicated matter. If you have any question about that, take a read through the Official 2016 NPS Budget Justifications document. This is the document that I have quoted from in the above numbers.
NPS 2016 Budget Justification

I suspect the truth lies somewhere between. As the old saying goes law making and sausage making have a lot in common and you don't want to watch either process if you have a weak stomach. I certainly wouldn't take any "official" justification at face value.

My take on it is the management at the national parks took the deal because it provided dedicated funding rather than fighting for general fund tax dollars, not because they think it makes any sense to give a huge discount to people who would go to the parks anyway.

Mich F wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

It's harsh but in 10-15yrs, the current crop of senior citizens won't be going to and supporting the parks.

Are you suggesting the "current crop of senior citizens" won't be replaced by another crop of senior citizens ? :h

If we don't instill a love of the national parks in the youth, there will still be a new crops of senior citizens but they will be far less likely to support them.

2gypsies wrote:
Valhalla360: Do you really think that people will stop going to the national parks and funding will be cancelled? People from all over the world seek them out. Yellowstone is 144 years old!! Our parents didn't take us to see any of them but we sure seek them out and return time after time. This topic is going downhill.

Exactly, the senior citizens will go regardless of the free pass, so why are we handing out free passes?

Of course Yellowstone is a special case. There are probably half a dozen parks that are simply overloaded. There are a great many others that fly under the radar.

I just lost a friend who just missed getting the geezer pass.

Some of us get a great bargain out of that 10 bucks, and others don't.

I'm looking forward to it. Believe me, I've given plenty of bucks to the NPS over the years and I've always been glad to do it. I hope I'm one of those who get a bargain!

agesilaus wrote:
I can assure you that NPS hates the senior pass and has repeatedly tried to kill it. But Congress passed the law creating the card and refuses to change it.

There is a lot of speculation and numbers being thrown around in this thread. Let's go to the official NPS numbers:

Here's a quote from the 2016 NPS budget proposal:
"The Act is currently scheduled to expire in September 2016 as authorized in the Consolidated and Further Continuing Appropriations Act of 2015. The 2016 budget proposes a general provision (Section 413) to further extend authorization for FLREA (Federal Lands Rec. Enh. Act) through September 30, 2017, as a short-term alternative to proposed legislation for long-term reauthorization."
That sounds like support to me.

Through the Rec Enh. Act (of which America the Beautiful Pass is a part) the NPS pulled in an estimated $192.5 million in 2016.

Here's what it will take in 2016 to run the parks: $2.5 billion.
"The proposed FY 2016 funding level for this appropriation, which supports the operation of the nation's parks, the preservation and protection of the precious resources contained within, and the provision of recreational opportunities and enjoyment of these resources by current and future visitors is $2.5 billion, reflecting a net increase of $239.4 million over the FY 2015 enacted level, consisting of a series of targeted programmatic increases totaling $213.4 million and fixed cost increases totaling $25.3 million."

This is the Centennial Year for the NPS, so there is a bump in funding to accomodate some sprucing up as well as the expected increased visitation.

Running the parks and running its programs, including fee collections is a complicated matter. If you have any question about that, take a read through the Official 2016 NPS Budget Justifications document. This is the document that I have quoted from in the above numbers.
NPS 2016 Budget Justification

Justed Google National Parks - where the money comes from - they get millions from the gate - but the NEED BILLIONS to run the parks - The National Parks are not Disney ($95/day) but better. Feel good about the Parks, they, IMHO, are one of the Best Buys in the USA.

So I happily pay the Fee + and will continue to appreciate the parks every time I visit - Truly a National Treasure.

JMHO

We seniors pay $10. for ours but if your in 10 years old and in forth grade you get one for free.Every kid in a park program

This is a good program if it gets the young ones out to our National Parks and wildlife Refuges.

by the time you reach 62 and think we have earned that right for a $10 pass. We have one and feel grateful! We have paid this government a lot of money the past 42 years. Love the break!! Tara:)