2013 Redwood

Redwoods are trying to be in the class of a Landmark, and Landmarks are glitz'ed up Bighorn.Redwoods build is not in par w/ the Bighorn, but the glitz and price match Landmark!

Disclaimer: not saying that anything is wrong w/ Redwood and that that they will have problems due to small axles and tires.

I had my Landmark picked up at the factory and taken directly to Mor Ryde for IS prior to delivery to the dealer...couldn't care less about Lippert's one year warranty. I was more than confident that the only issues I would have faced in that first year would have with the running gear.

My gamble paid off...not one issue with the Mor Ryde and no spring, axles, hanger or tire issues since I don't have any....moved my 17.5 tires and rims over from the Bighorn. Two year warranty runs the day after Christmas and never been back to the dealer!

Best decision we ever made....

Michelle.S wrote:
Well I can tell you first hand that doing the Mor/ryde IS upgrade will kill the Lippert frame warranty, .

Now what reason would Lippert deny warranty on the frame if you upgraded to a Mor/Ryde IS. Do they not offer the Mor/Ryde IS as an option on the Redwoods? Other than use any excuse possible to cover up a poor product.

On edit, the Mor/Ryde is not listed as an option by Redwood. I guess Lippert will not offer this in place of their suspension.

Ken

Due to new issues, I came back to this thread to verify prior statements, so will update.

The trailer owner does not participate in internet forums, at all, and never has, so this story will continue to be related by someone who does participate, and has for some 20 years, and knows the ilk of some of those who inhabit such forums and takes their opinions for what they're worth.

I do know that Redwood, upon request, de-rated the GVWR of the trailer when it produced it, as published on the trailer data plate, and will get the precise information off of the data plate the next time we're at the dealer, since that's where the trailer is again for the last two months, now with the front cap off of it for inspection of the frame and wall structure.

After the dealer installed the new axles, other than a maladjusted brake assembly causing wheel lockup, which the dealer repaired, the axles and new tires have continued to provide safe and reliable service for about another 10-12K miles. I recently was under the trailer and checked the axle camber as instructed by the frame shop, as operational maintenance, and the axles are maintaining their measurement of 3/4" over a four foot span. The tires continue to perform as expected and show no abnormal wear patterns. This indicates to me that the replacement regime, after 10-12K miles, appears to be functioning as expected.

camachinist wrote:
IMO, as someone who works with this stuff every day as a professional, that unit needs more axle. It's max'ed out. .

As a professional you must know that opinions are worthless against facts, and as an Engineer you must know that unit was not overloaded when it left the factory or it could not have been sold, and if it is overloaded beyond the GVWR or GAWR then that is the owners fault for exceeding the available cargo limit that is stamped on the left front, the screen door, and the interior cabinet. I suspect it is not overloaded, as mine is only at 12,900 lbs on the axles fully loaded with full fresh water, and that would easily fall within the capacity of his two 7,000 lbs axles.

Redwood came through as I stated they would, it is not a Lippert that warranties that coach.

So whats the chances of getting the story from the actual owner instead of this news report from a third party?

Update:

LIppert formally denied warranty in writing; there apparently was some communication confusion about the warranty period, with Lippert asserting one year and Redwood two years. The dealer warranty employee then contacted Redwood, who had referred him to Lippert prior, and advised his contact that the warranty had been denied. In the interim, the customer had a phone conversation with this contact at Redwood and the contact remembered the customer when interacting with the dealer warranty employee.

The result was, according to the Redwood contact, two entire axle assemblies, including springs and equalizers, five new tires, one fiberglass fender and adjacent lower panel, one wheel and miscellaneous attachment parts will be supplied to the dealer to install on the unit.

I confirmed the tires were the E-rated tires, which were a mistake on the part of the dealer ordering the trailer, as G had been specified, and which the customer accepted. At this juncture, my understanding is that equivalent tires will be supplied and the customer can upgrade them at his expense, which he intends to.

I'll update when the parts arrive and the unit is scheduled to be tested and released. So far, a little over a week into the process, progress appears to be good.

Thanks for the information on the 8K axle option. I misunderstood when reading this forum and the Redwood forum that it had been available in early 2012/late 2011 when this unit was ordered. IMO, as someone who works with this stuff every day as a professional, that unit needs more axle. It's max'ed out. The customer has the resources for the IS system and I intend to push investigation of that system, or stronger conventional axles with shock absorbers, as insurance against future incidents. Thanks for the input. Much appreciated.

The 8K axle option wasn't available 18 months ago, and it is no longer available now.

Something sounds a little fishy about Lippert not covering the axle. The warranty is through Redwood, not Lippert. Coverage is a negotiation between Crossroads and LGI, but the customer is warranted through Crossroads/Redwood in the end.

Well I can tell you first hand that doing the Mor/ryde IS upgrade will kill the Lippert frame warranty, but it sounds like they've already backed out, so sounds like nothing to lose. Because of the options we put on our RW and that we live in it 9 to 10 months at a time we travel heavy, like 500 Lbs plus over the 16.5K Gross. So we've upgraded to the 17.5 wheels with "H" rated tires and the Mor/ryde IS 8K system and couldn't be happier. If we had to do it all over again, I'd go with the cheap Marabombs, them before leaving the Dealer install the 17.5s then go directly to Mor/ryde for the IS install.

buc1980 wrote:
What Goodyear tire do you have on the trailer?

The trailer is still at the dealer but I believe he saved the carcass of the blown tire and the deformed one and I can pull ID information off of it. As he had similar axle problems on his last trailer, a Keystone Montana, and investigation discovered the factory had installed the wrong axles for it, he paid special attention to the issue when ordering the RW, as well as requesting the heavier tire option. IIUC, he did not receive that option on the delivered unit but will verify. I spoke with him about this yesterday and he was completely unaware that a 8000lb axle option was available at his time of purchase 18 months ago.

The relevant response from the dealer so far is that Lippert is unlikely to warranty the axles, even if found defective, because, as the dealer explained, Lippert has its own warranty on the running gear which is not impacted by the five year bumper to bumper warranty. A local frame and axle shop, when contacted for an independent opinion, asked him to place a four foot level on the top of the axle tube, indicating that there should be about 1/4 -1/2" of 'bend' downward (middle high) when the axle is under nominal static load, as a rough indicator of camber preset. The dealer indicated the Lippert rep performed the same examination and found the axle to be perfectly straight with no bend at all either way. The axle shop has a laser to do more precise measurements but the trailer will have to be taken there. That may occur but he'll give the dealer and RW every opportunity to rectify the issue in-house first.

Once I have more pertinent information, I'll post it up.

gitane59 wrote:
If a purchaser plans to put on a lot of hard miles then they had better be savvy enough to know to demand heavy duty suspension options or budget to take their new units to an after market supplier like Mor-Ryde to upgrade suspensions systems and then find upgraded rims and tires.

I agree and this purchaser happens to have a fleet of trucks, has been a forklift dealer for about 30 years now and has substantial working knowledge of mechanical systems. I'm a little more savvy on the engineering end (that's my business) and will investigate other options, like the Mor-Ryde IS, if the unit needs to be modified to suit his needs. Another issue would be if such modifications would impact the factory warranty on the trailer as a whole, which is an important factor for a unit seeing a lot of road time, which this unit does. Currently, his logs have it at just under 20K total miles in 16 months. That said, the other RW currently at the dealer with the same issue, though not as severe (no catastrophic failures), apparently has far fewer miles and is newer, so it's unclear how this issue plays out relevant to use. Hopefully, they'll get to the bottom of the issue and/or can certify the IS or something similar as compatible and warrantable. We'll see.

camachinist wrote:


Currently, this unit, along with another Redwood 36 unit, also with a similar tire/axle issue, are residing at the Los Banos (CA) Redwood dealer and the factory rep from Lippert has already flown in and inspected both trailers. So far, no response or prospective resolution offered.

My opinion is that the trailer needs a higher capacity axle and/or higher load rating tire.

Needless to say, my friend is somewhat disappointed in his first foray into residential trailers after having owned RV's (5ers and tags) for about 3 decades. He was hoping to avoid some of the issues from the past by buying residential but, so far, no joy.

Couple comments:
There is no definition within the RV industry of "residential" so any manufacturer can call anything residential with no retribution.

Looking at the Redwoods at shows and dealers and looking behind and underneath the lipstick I never have seen the justification for the extreme MSRP's above 100 grand, nor I have seen evidence of a product that justifies their marketing ploys.

Most manufacturers spec out units with the minimum undercarriage components that they hope will move the units from the plants to the dealerships.
If a purchaser plans to put on a lot of hard miles then they had better be savvy enough to know to demand heavy duty suspension options or budget to take their new units to an after market supplier like Mor-Ryde to upgrade suspensions systems and then find upgraded rims and tires.