Andersen Ultimate 5th Wheel Connection -- Wreck ????

Searching_Ut wrote:
For those unfamiliar with the Andersen Ultimate hitch, 100 percent of the weight of the trailer is carried by the bed of the truck, and none is carried on the ball in the bed of the truck. The truck bed ball is used as an anchor point with a pin that goes under the ball to anchor the hitch. You then tighten a bolt on on top of the tube that pulls a tub within the tube to pre-load the the base tightly against the bed of the truck. The truck bed ball is used for pulling to pull the hitch down, not to support the weight.

The other thing to keep in mind is that all of the pin weight for the trailer is transferred to the two set screws on the pin adapter between the ball and pin. The pin box not being designed to support the weight in a small area rather than distributed across the pin box base plate is what resulted in damage to my bighorn.

Is this a wide spread problem, damage to the pin box or just yours ? Yours is the only report I have read about with this problem.

I ask because I'm waiting for the puck system Andersen, which IMO will be an unbeatable fifth wheel hitch.

If your issue is in reality a problem for others , it wouldn't take much to beef up a pin box.

IdaD wrote:
He's entitled to his opinion but that's about as much weight as I'd give it too. I dont see myself ever going back to a standard fifth wheel hitch - as far as I'm concerned they don't work as well and they're more of a hassle to deal with. Just my opinion of course.

I agree, until I step up to a newer heavier fiver, I will continue to enjoy the Andersen...

ralphnjoann wrote:

Searching_Ut wrote:
For those unfamiliar with the Andersen Ultimate hitch, 100 percent of the weight of the trailer is carried by the bed of the truck, and none is carried on the ball in the bed of the truck. The truck bed ball is used as an anchor point with a pin that goes under the ball to anchor the hitch. You then tighten a bolt on on top of the tube that pulls a tub within the tube to pre-load the the base tightly against the bed of the truck. The truck bed ball is used for pulling to pull the hitch down, not to support the weight.

The other thing to keep in mind is that all of the pin weight for the trailer is transferred to the two set screws on the pin adapter between the ball and pin. The pin box not being designed to support the weight in a small area rather than distributed across the pin box base plate is what resulted in damage to my bighorn

Well, for one thing, the Andersen hitch does not cause "100 percent" of the weight of the trailer to be carried by the bed of the truck.

Second, the pin weight is carried by a ball mounted on a cross member secured to the rails of the truck. Snugging down the hitch so it doesn't shift does not place pin weight on the bed. That 40 or so pounds of force is there whether or not a trailer is attached.

Finally, the problems you had with your pin box must not be widespread since yours was the first and only one I have read about on these forums. The OP is asking about failures of Andersen hitches, not pinboxes.

Go back a and look at your hitch again. The square tube that goes over the ball is just a square tub closed at the top with threads for a bolt that comes down from the outer tube. There is nothing in there to rest on top of the ball, it's sole purpose is to help anchor the hitch from horizontal movement and to pull the hitch down firmly on the bed. Again, the ball carries none of the weight of the trailer, it's all carried by the bed of the truck. As for the pin box deformation, it's enough of a problem that Andersen is aware of it, and sends out shims to help prevent it once you contact them. They won't do anything about the damage though, nor do they advise it could happen. As for hearing about it on the forums, I'm not sure why you don't hear about it more as I've been checking others pin boxes when I see this hitch and have seen a half dozen now with noticeable deformation, with not all of them being Lippert pin boxes either.

IdaD, my bad on the hitch weight. Didn't realize the rail version was that much lighter than the steel ball mount version. Mine was 85lbs plus pin adapter. Guess half that weight was the base plate which I should have realized. I'm surprised you haven't experience binding of the ball in the socket when trying to hitch and unhitch with the truck and trailer at widely different angles. It's possible you're leveling your trailer prior to unhitching. I just unhitch, then put blocks under the low side levelers and level it out with hydraulics. Often end up with the wheels on one side as much as six or so inches off the ground. We normally spend about 45 days a year camping in Idaho, mostly boondocking as that is where most of my family is. Just got back from a little over a week up there in Island park. Three day weekend with the family boondocking, then 6 days in the upper coffee pot campground.

Me Again wrote:
You can not pull down and hold up with the same mechanism.

Maybe not at the same time, but a pulley/winch system does that very thing depending on whether it's raising or lowering a load.

Me Again wrote:

ralphnjoann wrote:
Well, for one thing, the Andersen hitch does not cause "100 percent" of the weight of the trailer to be carried by the bed of the truck.

Second, the pin weight is carried by a ball mounted on a cross member secured to the rails of the truck. Snugging down the hitch so it doesn't shift does not place pin weight on the bed. That 40 or so pounds of force is there whether or not a trailer is attached.

Finally, the problems you had with your pin box must not be widespread since yours was the first and only one I have read about on these forums.

You can not pull down and hold up with the same mechanism.

I don't think it's exactly the same mechanism serving the same purpose. The nut on top of the tube screws down on top of the ball forcing the base to likewise be pulled down on top of the bed floor. This is accomplished by pulling up on the ball but the hitch pin that attaches the Andersen to the gooseneck. The weight is not carried by the ball in the gooseneck at all. But the weight is carried by the gooseneck hitch rails and the frame of the truck. The only thing in common is that the ball is in the gooseneck receiver.

For some to say there is only some weight on the bed is untrue. Nearly all of the pin weight has to travel through the bed floor. The force distribution starts at the kingpin adaptor, through the ball on the top of the Anderson, through the pyramid frame to the base feet to the bed, to the hat channels, to the gooseneck hitch rails and the truck frame rails, through the suspension, to the wheels and tires, and finally to the ground. If I understand the distribution of force correctly in this application.

There is no single path for the weight to follow to the ground...it passes through all the equipment...even the bed floor.

I do believe that the puck system and the gooseneck system are both sound ways to install a fifth wheel hitch and keep the bed floor flat when unloaded.

I personally think one big hole in the bed is better than four but I digress. There is no doubt that the puck system is the most direct way to attach a fifth wheel hitch to the frame of a truck.

Thanks!

Jeremiah

ralphnjoann wrote:
Well, for one thing, the Andersen hitch does not cause "100 percent" of the weight of the trailer to be carried by the bed of the truck.

Second, the pin weight is carried by a ball mounted on a cross member secured to the rails of the truck. Snugging down the hitch so it doesn't shift does not place pin weight on the bed. That 40 or so pounds of force is there whether or not a trailer is attached.

Finally, the problems you had with your pin box must not be widespread since yours was the first and only one I have read about on these forums.

You can not pull down and hold up with the same mechanism.

Right on IdaD. I always had angst when hooking up to my old Reese hitch. I bought a new Tv last year and decided to go with the Andersen mostly based on the weight of it. It made hooking up my fifth wheel a pleasure. So easy and smooth no matter if it's flat terrain or not. Great hitch, I'd highly recommend it.

Searching_Ut wrote:

SabreCanuck wrote:
Honestly, I haven't been on this forum for 6 months and the first thing that comes up is you guys and this Anderson topic again. Crazy.

Please also keep in mind that every time you talk about the Anderson, everyone always seems to forget there is a RAIL version that has nothing to do with a gooseneck ball which at the same time means that just cause it's an Anderson doesn't mean the weight is on the ball, box, bed, etc. The weight is spread just the same as any other hitch on the rail version.

Indeed, there is a rail version, but it only comes in steel, with very little weight advantage over several rail mounted conventional hitches. Myself I find the conventional hitch head far easier to hitch and use than I did my Andersen. The advantage was in weight, which with my B&W puck mount is admittedly significant. That said, it hitches much easier, especially when the trailer and truck are tilted significantly. The ball hitch would sometimes hang up both disconnecting and connecting.

Back to the original question of failure, when I think about it, approximately a third of the fifth wheel crashes I've come across had the hitch fail in the crash. Saw one a few weeks ago on I-80 across the salt flats with 5er on side, truck upright and separate. News said wind blew it over and hitch decoupled. Hitch type unknown. Another on I-15 where truck had gone into center median, jackknifed and tipped over and was upside down with upright 5er having been pushing it through dirt. Another fatal on a local road where RV T-boned a car, fatal for car occupants, 5er stayed coupled but caved in back of truck in tailgate area and back of cab. Truck occupants walked away though. These are just ones I've personally seen in the last year which begs the question, how often do fifth wheel hitches of any type fail during accidents?

42 lbs is a lot lighter than most standard rail mount fifth wheel hitches or at least ones that slide. Maybe a standard mount cheapo hitch doesn't weigh a lot less but it wouldn't work in my short bed like the Andersen does.

I have exactly the opposite take on which is easier to deal with. There's not really any more up and down with a regular fifth wheel hitch unless you only camp on level ground, which I don't and my property at home is sloped as well. The Andersen is basically failsafe to hitch as long as you don't forget to push the pin in. It also goes over uneven ground nicer in my experience.

The really bizarre thing is how much angst the hitch causes with people here. Use if you want or don't, but the constant baseless bashing gets tiresome. I've yet to meet an owner in real life who doesn't really like the way it works.

SabreCanuck wrote:
Honestly, I haven't been on this forum for 6 months and the first thing that comes up is you guys and this Anderson topic again. Crazy.

Please also keep in mind that every time you talk about the Anderson, everyone always seems to forget there is a RAIL version that has nothing to do with a gooseneck ball which at the same time means that just cause it's an Anderson doesn't mean the weight is on the ball, box, bed, etc. The weight is spread just the same as any other hitch on the rail version.

Indeed, there is a rail version, but it only comes in steel, with very little weight advantage over several rail mounted conventional hitches. Myself I find the conventional hitch head far easier to hitch and use than I did my Andersen. The advantage was in weight, which with my B&W puck mount is admittedly significant. That said, it hitches much easier, especially when the trailer and truck are tilted significantly. The ball hitch would sometimes hang up both disconnecting and connecting.

Back to the original question of failure, when I think about it, approximately a third of the fifth wheel crashes I've come across had the hitch fail in the crash. Saw one a few weeks ago on I-80 across the salt flats with 5er on side, truck upright and separate. News said wind blew it over and hitch decoupled. Hitch type unknown. Another on I-15 where truck had gone into center median, jackknifed and tipped over and was upside down with upright 5er having been pushing it through dirt. Another fatal on a local road where RV T-boned a car, fatal for car occupants, 5er stayed coupled but caved in back of truck in tailgate area and back of cab. Truck occupants walked away though. These are just ones I've personally seen in the last year which begs the question, how often do fifth wheel hitches of any type fail during accidents?

Searching_Ut wrote:
For those unfamiliar with the Andersen Ultimate hitch, 100 percent of the weight of the trailer is carried by the bed of the truck, and none is carried on the ball in the bed of the truck. The truck bed ball is used as an anchor point with a pin that goes under the ball to anchor the hitch. You then tighten a bolt on on top of the tube that pulls a tub within the tube to pre-load the the base tightly against the bed of the truck. The truck bed ball is used for pulling to pull the hitch down, not to support the weight.

The other thing to keep in mind is that all of the pin weight for the trailer is transferred to the two set screws on the pin adapter between the ball and pin. The pin box not being designed to support the weight in a small area rather than distributed across the pin box base plate is what resulted in damage to my bighorn.

Well, for one thing, the Andersen hitch does not cause "100 percent" of the weight of the trailer to be carried by the bed of the truck.

Second, the pin weight is carried by a ball mounted on a cross member secured to the rails of the truck. Snugging down the hitch so it doesn't shift does not place pin weight on the bed. That 40 or so pounds of force is there whether or not a trailer is attached.

Finally, the problems you had with your pin box must not be widespread since yours was the first and only one I have read about on these forums.