Disappointed!!!!!!!

I must be another one of the "lucky" ones. Bought 2 new TTs in the past 15 years and never have taken either one back to the dealer for anything.

Sure some things have "broken" , a pipe connector worked loose and leaked, a wire worked loose, a piece of trim worked loose and fell off the wall, the main door needed adjusting. I would not consider any of these as "show stoppers" or "poor quality" - my rigs bounces down the road for 35 days per year - stuff working loose is expected.

I came from the telephone industry in the '80s, in those days it was all about quality - irrespective of price (for the most part) - remember the days when dropped calls was unheard of or when getting a dial tone 100% of the time "was the norm"?

That all changed in the '90 when customers demanded lower cost and price drove behaviour - quality started to suffer because the consumer demanded lower prices - there IS a reason why Walmart is the biggest retailer - their customers demand lower prices (quality has taken a back seat in all (?) aspects of our buying habits).

Nothing is different in the RV industry - WE, the consumer are driving that - ask yourself - "Would have bought the SAME TT you have today for 50% more to get better quality ?" probably not. So at the end of the day it's a balance - improving quality drives up the cost.

I'll use a telephone example: In 1986 by long distance bill was $150/month, today it's essentially free, is the service and quality the same - NO WAY.

Gerry

To the OP, have your DH take a look under the belly pan up front and check out the black & grey tanks. A 2015 Reflection had it's black tank drop right out of the bottom while parked next to us a couple weeks ago. When I went over and looked it was a flimsy plastic bladder that was only held up by a 1" notch molded into the sides and they rested on the lip of the frame rails. As soon as the plastic got warm it just slid right out and ripped out the bottom of the camper. The only support under the tanks were a couple flimsy fabric straps, similar to the bands on the old PVC pool furniture. I could not believe no metal supports under any of the tanks whatsoever. We were actually looking at trading for the Momentum but have moved our search elsewhere. I was shocked at the lack of engineering quality.

JMO With the big uptick in RV sales the manufacturers are having to hire a lot of new employees. A lot of these are thrown on the assembly line without a lot of training. Also management is probably pushing the assembly line workers to work faster to fill orders. Again JMO
Don

laknox wrote:

SabreCanuck wrote:
Yep, you will eventually find them all.. We went through same thing with our brand new camper. First time I hooked up the black tank flush the only thing that got flushed was the bathroom floor. Factory forgot to put a washer in the fitting to the outside and it was 'flushed' alright. LOL I, like you found it easier/quicker just to go buy that $.50 washer and put it in myself... (Let the 'warranty' people start yelling at me)..

To be honest we all are pushing for more and more options on everything these days (trucks, trailers, houses, etc.).. More options = More problems no matter what it is. proof of my point? How many of your previous pop-ups had rear stabilizer switches and couches to go bad in the first place? (not picking on you, just using your example)

As long as it's not something major I consider it part of the process and won't be sending letters to lawyers/manufacturers anytime soon. But, I do understand the frustration.

Happy camping.

Crap. We simply will NOT accept this in the automotive industry, why do we have to accept it in the RV industry? Can you imagine if we had to deal with this with our trucks? Not one of us would stand for it!

Lyle

"We simply will NOT accept this in the automotive industry.....
Can you imagine if we had to deal with this with our trucks?. Not one of us would stand for it!"

Absolutely laughable statement...:R

What are you going to do about it??..:S

TRUCKS:
When I was trying to decide which brand of tow vehicle I would purchase in late 2005, I started checking the various diesel brand *owner's* forums.

The 6.0 Ford (diesel) horror stories were incredible!
New motors, "take backs" (you get a different truck, no refunds) - and the TWO TIME losers! The replacements failed also.
They tried *NOT* to stand for it - but still got the shaft (sometimes twice).
Sure - it's under warranty. You'll have it back in 3 weeks (maybe).

Mind you these were Ford folks - telling their tales of woe on Ford diesel forums - to other Ford owners!
And yeah, I had a 1T Ford 6.9 back when, the cornbinder diesel ate injector pumps - which conveniently for Ford - started about 50K miles. Learned to change 'em myself.

Had my share of bow-tie trucks (and cars) too.

When I ruled Ford out, and couldn't get a Chevy D/Max 1T SRW, short bed - I went with my first Dodge (ever).
Glad I did - even passing on buying a GM at dealer invoice.
(BIL is/was a GM employee)

His 2003 D/Max has less miles than my '05 Dodge, with more $$ spent on repairs - after the warranty expired, of course.

CARS:
Well let's see - Toyota's throttle problem resulting in injuries and multiple deaths, ditto the airbag fiasco...many of us (cars & trucks) have air bag recalls "pending".
(You get the notice - but no telling when replacements will be available, LOL!)

BTW - the BIL worked at the now closed GM assembly plant in Van Nuys, CA.
Want to hear about Friday night - or Monday morning cars?
How about engine "break-in" techniques?
(Your new engine is well "broken-in" before you get it!!)
Got to see that first-hand, including a "jump the rollers" car.

Or maybe how the factory damage gets repaired "in house" and still sent out to dealers? (A few are beyond repair - *VERY* few!)

So maybe the QC on RVs isn't so bad after all..;)

Never needed the 2year warranty on my Jayco - for anything...:C


.

Rlaubert wrote:
When I was researching my book Finding the Perfect RV, I read on one of the industry sites that the average new RV spends 90-110 days in the shop. If the manufactures would implement a simple QC program this wouldn't happen. Can you imagine if ours cars and trucks spent that kind of time in the shop the first year!

Lessee... I've been saying essentially the same damn thing for what? 4-5 years?

90-110 days in what period?

Lyle

Not the same fifth wheel but we could have gave up our storage space the first two years we had this unit ! We RV'ed and went to the dealer more than I can remember. On our 3 rd season now and everything seems to be just fine. Took a lot of patience and we had a great dealer.

I've been a member on here for a good while. I don't recall seeing a mass uprising of the regulars here clamoring for some of these "upgrades" now being offered as standard equipment. These include power rear stabilizers, electric powered awnings, self-cleaning tanks or winterizing water systems. Yes they all look glitizy and nice at the RV shows and we all probably ohhh and ahhh when we see them. But when I look at these things, knowing that RV manufactures and the component suppliers can't even keep things working reliably on products that have been on the market for years and years; I see only future problems to equipment that is designed and built to the lowest bidder(think axles, water heaters and refrigerators). Does anyone really need an electric awning or LED strip lights underneath. Is it so hard to pull the old style awning out and actually be able to adjust it so water will run off ? Yes, on the showroom floor all these toys look nice and I guess add to the marketability of the new RV. But on the road and in the campgrounds, there is nothing but a problem waiting to happen.

"FWIW - I also believe you are handling the small items in the best way - fix it yourself in the driveway instead of waiting 4 weeks for the dealer to do it under warranty. Who knows, while you are digging around fixing one thing you might stumble across a way to avoid another (i.e. wires rubbing, hoses crimped, etc.)"

I agree. However, one of the points of my original reply was when purchasing a brand new RV we shouldn't have to do any of those things to begin with. It all has to do with poor or practically non-existent QUALITY CONTROL during the manufacturing and negligent DEALER PREP. :M

As long as the demand for RVs keeps up, I don't look for things to change any time soon. :(

Isn't RVing fun! :B;)

Once all the problems are taken care of I think it still is. :)

As my previous post states.. More toys, more problems. Lyle and I have disagreed on the whole warranty/quality issue a couple of times before so I won't comment on his post calling my post******(oops, just did). LOL.

My point was comparing the NEW/Current style RV's with all of the bells/whistles to something you bought in the 90's is hardly fair. The 90's you didn't have outdoor kitchens, super slides, light weight aluminum, 50" TV's, Microwaves, etc.. etc.. You had a popup camper with room to sleep and you'd consider yourself darn lucky to have a working fridge and no leaks. From what I recall (yep, i'm that old) those pop-ups had issues with the crank mechanisms, leaks in the canvas and fridge's periodically burning the trailer to the ground. The only difference between now and then is this forum to post your issues to the world and have everyone scream quality issues...

We as the purchasers are DEMANDING more options, features, toys for the lowest weight and $$. But we can't figure out why we have issues with quality? All I know is what my Grandpa and Father taught me from years gone by. More toys = more problems and it's been that way for years, not just on trailers.

To the OP - Don't worry, you bought a quality rig that has had some minor issues and you will get them rectified and as others have stated you'll probably enjoy it for years to come. I personally would not be too disappointed in the little things and have comfort in the fact that you purchased from a reputable company that will back you on the (forbid) bigger things.

FWIW - I also believe you are handling the small items in the best way - fix it yourself in the driveway instead of waiting 4 weeks for the dealer to do it under warranty. Who knows, while you are digging around fixing one thing you might stumble across a way to avoid another (i.e. wires rubbing, hoses crimped, etc.)

Congrats on the new rig, you will turn that frown upside down, i'm sure.

SabreCanuck wrote:
Yep, you will eventually find them all.. We went through same thing with our brand new camper. First time I hooked up the black tank flush the only thing that got flushed was the bathroom floor. Factory forgot to put a washer in the fitting to the outside and it was 'flushed' alright. LOL I, like you found it easier/quicker just to go buy that $.50 washer and put it in myself... (Let the 'warranty' people start yelling at me)..

To be honest we all are pushing for more and more options on everything these days (trucks, trailers, houses, etc.).. More options = More problems no matter what it is. proof of my point? How many of your previous pop-ups had rear stabilizer switches and couches to go bad in the first place? (not picking on you, just using your example)

As long as it's not something major I consider it part of the process and won't be sending letters to lawyers/manufacturers anytime soon. But, I do understand the frustration.

Happy camping.

Crap. We simply will NOT accept this in the automotive industry, why do we have to accept it in the RV industry? Can you imagine if we had to deal with this with our trucks? Not one of us would stand for it! Have to send an alternator to Delco because it's out of mfr warranty? Again, I think not. Having stuff go wrong is why I'd =love= to see all RV mfrs have an electric awning delete; same with electric stabilizers, among the major issues I have.

FWIW, the only real issues I've had with my '04 Komfort are an intermittent leak on the toilet inlet, just works loose and I have to tighten it when it does; the pocket door would come off the track, necessitating that the dealer install a second strap to secure it; one leak around the skylight in the bathroom that a tube of Dicor fixed. A loose wire on the MW oven. That's been pretty much it. The rest is just attributable to having to sit in the AZ sun and plain normal wear and tear. I'd =love= to be able to keep the pre-Lippert Zieman frame and simply build a new box on top of it.

Lyle