Electric refrigerator in toy hauler...Dry camping experience
Have this on another forum but wanted to share here too as wider audience. Have a couple related posts here but this is the full story ...
Figured would share my experience (long winded) as just purchased a Fuzion 420 that has the residential electric only refrigerator (Samsung in mine) which has been very stressful and costly in many ways.
I admit I was a bit rushed to make a purchase and should have done more research, especially on this big of a purchase. Am usually very good at doing this but circumstances kinda prevented the amount of research I usually do. Shame on Keystone and others as it literally should come with a big red WARNING label to those that plan on doing any dry camping, neverless even be distributed to the market I am in where it is probably 90% dry camping (dunes and forest) given it is a toy hauler after all.
Sales pitch:
Well to no real surprise I got a lot of bad info from multiple sales people at different locations that influenced my decision. I am in technical sales and would have never recommended this product without a lot of WARNINGS as was very clear how I would be using it and other products on lot a better fit for most. Was basically told that the batteries it comes with will get you through the day or night and no real concerns as they are very efficient refrigerators. Did not know until went to pick up that they only gave me one 12V battery! Apparently this is more dictated by the dealership than it is Keystone after speaking with them but still this is rediculous and Keystone should dictate otherwise. There was room for three so assumed that's what was going into it and figured in this high end of a rig that no way Keystone would not leave you hanging with a potential horrible situation one way or another without a WARNING.
Batteries:
As mentioned, I only got one 12V battery at delivery. I got about 3 hours of use from this battery with just fridge on the one time I tried it if curious. The battery area seemed bigger to me than really was so even putting 3 likely was not possible because of the limited room to "get them through the door" and lack of depth to be able to rotate them around to get them in place. In other words, it is more than just measuring the tray size in my case and only real way to see was to go very small or just try to see if can shoehorn them in one way or another. Having basically room for three is also annoying as doesn't help when going 6V golf cart route which is essentially necessary in my opinion. What I am really trying to say is if the rig does not have a HUGE battery location or you are prepared to otherwise get creative putting them in other places too this should be a big WARNING. I ended up going with two high capacity Trojan J305H-AC's rated which gives me about 360 Ah or in other words between 3 to 4 normal golf cart batteries. I was able to do this as I had a little extra height than width so these are just taller batteries. I still had to cut a hole in my basement compartment to slide them in from there as would not go through the normal door and this also required cutting of some metal which was not fun at all.
Solar:
Luckily I had solar on my previous rig and knew I wanted it on this one too so already had it worked in to the deal. However, I should have gone bigger as again was not expecting the electric refrigerator/battery issues. Had 500W system with 30A controller put in and it really helps to not run the generator much during the day but still wish would have gone bigger. The WARNING I would give here is to make sure you figure out how much solar you need in the environment you will likely be in. Lucky for me I am in mostly sunny AZ but gonna be more of a challenge when it comes time to go to the forest instead of dunes.
Inverter:
On the 420, and I assume on all of those who are doing these electric refrigerators, there is a dedicated inverter only for the fridge. It is wired into a switch on mine so that when shore power is connected it will run off the AC source and not need to have the inverter on. I was not in the know of inverters much when purchasing but knew the basics. Should have looked at it closer as later found it is just a 1000W even though it is a large unit and what appears to be a good inverter but time will tell. Not sure but seems would have been better for a 1500W or really a 2000W long term as from what I have seen this fridge pulls about 10A so that means about 1200W needed so thus over capacity and really supposed to have some excess capacity. It is wired somewhat close to battery but could have been much closer and need to take a closer look, but I dont think they used very heavy gauge wire to battery so shame on Keystone. So far so good with this inverter but still seems very suspicious to me especially for long term longevity with what I know now. WARNING, check inverter size and wiring and consider working a bigger one properly installed into the deal. Also, why the heck would they just not do an even bigger inverter and wire in a few of the outlets by TV's etc to be inverted outlets as now this is another thing I need to do as very annoying with a satellite receiver to have to search for signal each time and run generator on this high end of rig. I am really only complaining about this as I was told the TV's were powered by the inverter initially so again mislead.
External Generator:
Even with the good sized solar system and expensive battery bank I can't really make it through the night with the fridge on. I can make it through the day without generator use but that is only due to almost always clear and sunny in AZ and no obstructions in the desert where I am currently testing (wont be the case in the forest) but cannot if even a few hours of overcast. Still, the second the sun is about to go down need to run the generator to make it through the evening hours. Even with running the generator again a couple hours before going to bed and no heater use at night the battery bank is drained just enough that fridge is still on, lights, etc. ok but the onboard Onan 5500 does not have enough juice to turn over. So, luckily I already have a Champion 3100 generator with wireless start so I dont have to go out and jump start it which would be highly annoying. I also leave it connected to the shore power and run it most the time needed to minimize gas use. A Honda 2000 might even be better but not sure if any wireless options on them or similar. WARNING you are going to want to have an external generator likely with wireless start unless have huge battery bank. As a side note, I still have a hassle with this setup in that for some reason my In Command system will not let me start the Onan 5500 onboard generator even when battery is good and have to go outside and start it directly from the switch mounted on it which is very annoying. I think it has something to do with the switching as after doing this once it is good to start/stop from the In Command system but not really sure why it behaves this way.
Starter Battery for onboard Generator:
With expected significant power needed from fridge a dedicated and isolated starter battery should come standard. Since I have an extra battery spot open I will use the one measly battery they gave me for this purpose to turn over the Onan 5500 when not using the external generator. If not going to have an external generator I think this will be close to a necessity especially as batteries age etc. Since mine wont be the same type of battery not going to mess with isolation switches, etc. as I don't ever want them in parallel to my 6V bank or the complication of a similar setup or manual setup in general. So, I think will just do a NOCO 3.5A battery charger (its like a Battery Tender charger) and use it permanently to charge this battery as wont get drained much anyways so the minimal amps and time the generator is on typically should be more than enough to keep this battery topped off.
The Refrigerator itself:
I love it !!!! Very tough to say with what I am going through to power it but they do cool down to temp in say 30 minutes vs. many hours which is very important to me as its kept in storage and want to get the cooler out of the way once get to camp, it holds temp no problems, and this Samsung fridge in general is just very nice with a lot of freezer capacity for ice and similar, and having an ice maker is kinda nice to fill the coolers. I do have to mention that I need to look into why the fridge portion does not seem to be cooling off as much as expected and will get a temp gauge to make sure this is real and not a perception. Maybe even though fridge stays on no problems it is not getting the power needed from inverter as mentioned in the inverter section above? Some have also recommended turning off the ice maker to really help with powering it but that takes away one of the nice features for me albeit the rate at which it produces ice is fairly slow. I might also test if just turning it off at night might work as again it cools down so quickly to recover any small loss and when camping it is always cool to cold temps at night and don't put the heater on too high so might just work out.
I am close to making this a very manageable setup but not sure this is the way many people would want to go. Probably need to add another solar panel or two and look where could stuff a couple more batteries to have no worries. If was purchasing today probably would not go this route but the Fuzion 420 in general makes up for a lot of this hassle for me as just really liking it once get past this and a few other more expected new rig "issues".
WARNING - Equipped with electric only refrigerator - Dry Camping not recommended without modifications: 750W+ solar (or 20A), eight 6V batteries (500 Ah), 2000W inverter, Generator starter battery and/or external generator.
:S ... or just use a Yeti instead LOL
Figured would share my experience (long winded) as just purchased a Fuzion 420 that has the residential electric only refrigerator (Samsung in mine) which has been very stressful and costly in many ways.
I admit I was a bit rushed to make a purchase and should have done more research, especially on this big of a purchase. Am usually very good at doing this but circumstances kinda prevented the amount of research I usually do. Shame on Keystone and others as it literally should come with a big red WARNING label to those that plan on doing any dry camping, neverless even be distributed to the market I am in where it is probably 90% dry camping (dunes and forest) given it is a toy hauler after all.
Sales pitch:
Well to no real surprise I got a lot of bad info from multiple sales people at different locations that influenced my decision. I am in technical sales and would have never recommended this product without a lot of WARNINGS as was very clear how I would be using it and other products on lot a better fit for most. Was basically told that the batteries it comes with will get you through the day or night and no real concerns as they are very efficient refrigerators. Did not know until went to pick up that they only gave me one 12V battery! Apparently this is more dictated by the dealership than it is Keystone after speaking with them but still this is rediculous and Keystone should dictate otherwise. There was room for three so assumed that's what was going into it and figured in this high end of a rig that no way Keystone would not leave you hanging with a potential horrible situation one way or another without a WARNING.
Batteries:
As mentioned, I only got one 12V battery at delivery. I got about 3 hours of use from this battery with just fridge on the one time I tried it if curious. The battery area seemed bigger to me than really was so even putting 3 likely was not possible because of the limited room to "get them through the door" and lack of depth to be able to rotate them around to get them in place. In other words, it is more than just measuring the tray size in my case and only real way to see was to go very small or just try to see if can shoehorn them in one way or another. Having basically room for three is also annoying as doesn't help when going 6V golf cart route which is essentially necessary in my opinion. What I am really trying to say is if the rig does not have a HUGE battery location or you are prepared to otherwise get creative putting them in other places too this should be a big WARNING. I ended up going with two high capacity Trojan J305H-AC's rated which gives me about 360 Ah or in other words between 3 to 4 normal golf cart batteries. I was able to do this as I had a little extra height than width so these are just taller batteries. I still had to cut a hole in my basement compartment to slide them in from there as would not go through the normal door and this also required cutting of some metal which was not fun at all.
Solar:
Luckily I had solar on my previous rig and knew I wanted it on this one too so already had it worked in to the deal. However, I should have gone bigger as again was not expecting the electric refrigerator/battery issues. Had 500W system with 30A controller put in and it really helps to not run the generator much during the day but still wish would have gone bigger. The WARNING I would give here is to make sure you figure out how much solar you need in the environment you will likely be in. Lucky for me I am in mostly sunny AZ but gonna be more of a challenge when it comes time to go to the forest instead of dunes.
Inverter:
On the 420, and I assume on all of those who are doing these electric refrigerators, there is a dedicated inverter only for the fridge. It is wired into a switch on mine so that when shore power is connected it will run off the AC source and not need to have the inverter on. I was not in the know of inverters much when purchasing but knew the basics. Should have looked at it closer as later found it is just a 1000W even though it is a large unit and what appears to be a good inverter but time will tell. Not sure but seems would have been better for a 1500W or really a 2000W long term as from what I have seen this fridge pulls about 10A so that means about 1200W needed so thus over capacity and really supposed to have some excess capacity. It is wired somewhat close to battery but could have been much closer and need to take a closer look, but I dont think they used very heavy gauge wire to battery so shame on Keystone. So far so good with this inverter but still seems very suspicious to me especially for long term longevity with what I know now. WARNING, check inverter size and wiring and consider working a bigger one properly installed into the deal. Also, why the heck would they just not do an even bigger inverter and wire in a few of the outlets by TV's etc to be inverted outlets as now this is another thing I need to do as very annoying with a satellite receiver to have to search for signal each time and run generator on this high end of rig. I am really only complaining about this as I was told the TV's were powered by the inverter initially so again mislead.
External Generator:
Even with the good sized solar system and expensive battery bank I can't really make it through the night with the fridge on. I can make it through the day without generator use but that is only due to almost always clear and sunny in AZ and no obstructions in the desert where I am currently testing (wont be the case in the forest) but cannot if even a few hours of overcast. Still, the second the sun is about to go down need to run the generator to make it through the evening hours. Even with running the generator again a couple hours before going to bed and no heater use at night the battery bank is drained just enough that fridge is still on, lights, etc. ok but the onboard Onan 5500 does not have enough juice to turn over. So, luckily I already have a Champion 3100 generator with wireless start so I dont have to go out and jump start it which would be highly annoying. I also leave it connected to the shore power and run it most the time needed to minimize gas use. A Honda 2000 might even be better but not sure if any wireless options on them or similar. WARNING you are going to want to have an external generator likely with wireless start unless have huge battery bank. As a side note, I still have a hassle with this setup in that for some reason my In Command system will not let me start the Onan 5500 onboard generator even when battery is good and have to go outside and start it directly from the switch mounted on it which is very annoying. I think it has something to do with the switching as after doing this once it is good to start/stop from the In Command system but not really sure why it behaves this way.
Starter Battery for onboard Generator:
With expected significant power needed from fridge a dedicated and isolated starter battery should come standard. Since I have an extra battery spot open I will use the one measly battery they gave me for this purpose to turn over the Onan 5500 when not using the external generator. If not going to have an external generator I think this will be close to a necessity especially as batteries age etc. Since mine wont be the same type of battery not going to mess with isolation switches, etc. as I don't ever want them in parallel to my 6V bank or the complication of a similar setup or manual setup in general. So, I think will just do a NOCO 3.5A battery charger (its like a Battery Tender charger) and use it permanently to charge this battery as wont get drained much anyways so the minimal amps and time the generator is on typically should be more than enough to keep this battery topped off.
The Refrigerator itself:
I love it !!!! Very tough to say with what I am going through to power it but they do cool down to temp in say 30 minutes vs. many hours which is very important to me as its kept in storage and want to get the cooler out of the way once get to camp, it holds temp no problems, and this Samsung fridge in general is just very nice with a lot of freezer capacity for ice and similar, and having an ice maker is kinda nice to fill the coolers. I do have to mention that I need to look into why the fridge portion does not seem to be cooling off as much as expected and will get a temp gauge to make sure this is real and not a perception. Maybe even though fridge stays on no problems it is not getting the power needed from inverter as mentioned in the inverter section above? Some have also recommended turning off the ice maker to really help with powering it but that takes away one of the nice features for me albeit the rate at which it produces ice is fairly slow. I might also test if just turning it off at night might work as again it cools down so quickly to recover any small loss and when camping it is always cool to cold temps at night and don't put the heater on too high so might just work out.
I am close to making this a very manageable setup but not sure this is the way many people would want to go. Probably need to add another solar panel or two and look where could stuff a couple more batteries to have no worries. If was purchasing today probably would not go this route but the Fuzion 420 in general makes up for a lot of this hassle for me as just really liking it once get past this and a few other more expected new rig "issues".
WARNING - Equipped with electric only refrigerator - Dry Camping not recommended without modifications: 750W+ solar (or 20A), eight 6V batteries (500 Ah), 2000W inverter, Generator starter battery and/or external generator.
:S ... or just use a Yeti instead LOL
