Finally got weights from CAT scale

drfife wrote:


This gets the gold star for fear mongering.

If you killed someone and were not overweight, you'd not feel bad?

Let me answer that in my capacity as a firearms instructor.

I teach people that a Concealed Firearm Permit is there for when they have done all that they can to avoid trouble, and trouble comes and finds them anyway.

I teach de-escalation and disengagement as part of my classes. I teach about situational awareness and knowing when NOT to be somewhere. It is literally the last resort.

As long as these things are practiced, if trouble still comes to find me, I would sleep perfectly well knowing that someone else made a series of bad decisions and took actions which necessitated me stopping them.

Now, let's apply the same principles to being on the road.

If I know that I did all that I could to avoid an incident, and I was legal in all respects, and someone else created an unsafe situation that I could not avoid which resulted in their injury or death, then I would feel a lot better about that than if I knew that I disregarded warnings and ratings and otherwise might - and I emphasize MIGHT - have been able to avoid injuring or killing someone else.

I would not cherish the thought that "if I only I had done X or not exceeded Y, maybe I could have avoided it". Doubt and questioning may be there anyway, but knowingly exceeding ratings would certainly factor in to aggravate those doubts.

There would also be the nagging fear that in a court action, if anyone figured it out, that it could very well be used as a point to make me look like someone taking less than due caution. I know one lawyer that said he would certainly look for such if he were ever presented such a case. If I know that there is nothing to discover there, I'd also sleep better.

ETA - I just found out about a case that may well be applicable to this situation. The door sticker weights were a factor. I'm waiting for more info to verify.

ramgunner wrote:

Even if you are not criminally charged with anything, even if the other party does not file a civil suit - think about this.

If you did everything you could to be safe - including running under your weight ratings and keeping this well maintained - and someone does something that results in you hitting them, it would be much easier to sleep ok knowing that you did all that you could to avoid it.

If you were overweight, and you knew it and did it anyway, and hit and injured or killed someone - even if they did something that caused you to hit them - how would you feel about it? How would it feel to say "what if I hadn't run overweight, could I have avoided them"? Would you sleep well with the nagging thought that you might have been able to do more to prevent it? Would you sleep well knowing that in a civil case, an attorney for the other side could use your running overweight to make you seem even more negligent in the eyes of a jury?

Discretion being the better part of valor, I'd prefer to do all I can to be safe, rather than risking my peace of mind and my family financial situation.

This gets the gold star for fear mongering.

If you killed someone and were not overweight, you'd not feel bad?

I guess everyone has their own opinion of what safe is.

goducks10 wrote:
I really don't see any difference between an accident caused by failure to maintain control of a vehicle whether it be by speeding, texting or being overweight. It's still driver error. Being overweight has no relevance in an accident. You can still be underweight and cause an accident.

Even if you are not criminally charged with anything, even if the other party does not file a civil suit - think about this.

If you did everything you could to be safe - including running under your weight ratings and keeping this well maintained - and someone does something that results in you hitting them, it would be much easier to sleep ok knowing that you did all that you could to avoid it.

If you were overweight, and you knew it and did it anyway, and hit and injured or killed someone - even if they did something that caused you to hit them - how would you feel about it? How would it feel to say "what if I hadn't run overweight, could I have avoided them"? Would you sleep well with the nagging thought that you might have been able to do more to prevent it? Would you sleep well knowing that in a civil case, an attorney for the other side could use your running overweight to make you seem even more negligent in the eyes of a jury?

Discretion being the better part of valor, I'd prefer to do all I can to be safe, rather than risking my peace of mind and my family financial situation.

I really don't see any difference between an accident caused by failure to maintain control of a vehicle whether it be by speeding, texting or being overweight. It's still driver error. Being overweight has no relevance in an accident. You can still be underweight and cause an accident.

In Canada only one Province goes by the GVWR all others go by the purchased tag weights on the insurance registration. I have had a 2500 now a 3500 SRW and the only towing difference is due to the new design but both towed my 15.5 Silverback 37BH just fine. DRW is more stable but its not earth shattering like the DRW Lemmings would shout and cry. They like the DRW so be it, a 2500 can pull heavy loads without tipping over contrary to what they say.

I tow on average 4-6k miles every summer so I get to cover all terrains. Don't sweat it, the truck may sag just get air bags to level the truck. FYI my Tags are for 24k lbs all in.

And in Canada I could not find a single case where the courts ruled on RV over weights. Here is the link to look.
http://www.canlii.org/en/

gmw photos wrote:

Me Again wrote:
So Lantley, are you saying I should sue the State of Washington for licensing my 8800 GVWR Dodge RAM at 12K according to their formula? Which is 1.5 times the tare weight and then round up to the next higher even K.

Chris

In Missouri you can put any plate on it you want ( or "need" to, would be a better way to say it ), as long as you're willing to pay the greater fee for heavier plates.

More to the point, the truck has to be licensed up to a weight equal to or greater than the combined weight of the truck and the trailer. So for instance, my Frontier, if running just by itself, I could get by with a 6K pound plate. But since I am at just over 8K pounds with the trailer hooked to it, I have to move up to the 12K plate, even though the truck itself is not capable of 12K combined. The plates go, 6K, 12K, 18K....and up from there.

Tonnage in Washington state does not have to include a RV trailer, as it has its own fees and licenses. Also a truck camper has their own license unless permanently mounted to the truck. Chris

Me Again wrote:
So Lantley, are you saying I should sue the State of Washington for licensing my 8800 GVWR Dodge RAM at 12K according to their formula? Which is 1.5 times the tare weight and then round up to the next higher even K.

Chris

In Missouri you can put any plate on it you want ( or "need" to, would be a better way to say it ), as long as you're willing to pay the greater fee for heavier plates.

More to the point, the truck has to be licensed up to a weight equal to or greater than the combined weight of the truck and the trailer. So for instance, my Frontier, if running just by itself, I could get by with a 6K pound plate. But since I am at just over 8K pounds with the trailer hooked to it, I have to move up to the 12K plate, even though the truck itself is not capable of 12K combined. The plates go, 6K, 12K, 18K....and up from there.

Lantley wrote:

avvidclif1 wrote:

ramgunner wrote:

avvidclif1 wrote:

Everyone is stuck on the legal issue...

CITE ME ONE INSTANCE WHERE SOMEONE HAS BEEN SUED FOR BEING OVERWEIGHT!!

Put up or shut up.

While you are at it quote the law regarding enforcement of GVWR in a non commercial situation.

The points I posted come from a conversation that I had with a lawyer who happens to tow a large TH (Voltage). Those are points that he made, and they are good ones.

I contacted him last night I asked him if he knows of specific cases, and he pointed me to a couple of other lawyers he knows of that have handled such cases. I have contacted them to get specific info where exceeding weight ratings came up, but as I am not a client or potential client it might take a while before I hear back.

I also mentioned some of the items from this thread. He basically said that in such a case, if someone was over any of their weight ratings, it could certainly go to proving negligence - especially if they were ever provided any warning in any form - in the minds of the jury.

What are the odds that your worst day will come to that point? Depends on how many assets you have that you want to risk, and also how would feel knowing that someone - in another vehicle or in yours - was seriously injured or killed in such a situation. Knowing that you have done everything on your part to be safe might let you sleep a little easier.

Been asking that question for several years and still don't have an answer or court case.

Until you have one I will classify your info as rumor.

whether there is a documented case or not is irrelevant. If you think a savvy lawyer won't use the fact that an overloaded rig exceeded the manufacturers ratings to his advantage your being naive.
If you think a jury doesn't understand never exceed rating "X" your being naive.
The point of the GVWR is all about liability. The manufacturers are absolving themselves from liability if you exceed the ratings.
Consequently the operator assumes more of the liability when they choose to ignore what the manufacturer has stated and exceed the ratings.
Assuming that there has never been a civil case involving a rig exceeding its GVW does not mean it can't happen.
In the litigious society we live in someone has to be the first;)

Again you are guessing. No facts. There are enough sharks (lawyers) in the water (USA)that if one of them smelled blood or even thought he could get blood then there would have been lawsuits. Don't kid yourself. My guess, note I say guess, is that it has been looked at and deemed not very likely to be profitable. Therefore they want a large sum of money up front and nothing has happened.

So Lantley, are you saying I should sue the State of Washington for licensing my 8800 GVWR Dodge RAM at 12K according to their formula? Which is 1.5 times the tare weight and then round up to the next higher even K.

Kind of says that the State of Washington does no consider GVWR a binding number.

People use the words, law, legal, reg etc. The only binding weight laws are the federal bridge weight laws that each state mirrors. They are designed for commercial trucking and a pickup word be hard press to exceed them. Being over ones tire rating is most likely the only way a pick up truck would get sideways with LEO or failure to have enough tonnage licensed in a state that requires it.

Chris