Ford versus Dodge truck for towing 40 foot 5th wheel

fairhaven wrote:
Lots of good info being written about here. Some of you "assume" that I do not know what my GVWR, RAWR, tire max load rating, and actual weights of vehicle and fiver loaded and unloaded. I stated several times that I have had my truck & fiver weighed (several times) at a certified truck scales. On our last 2 week trip to the ocean my actual rear axle weight was 218lbs BELOW the max RAWR. This was with my fiver hooked up. I have not exceeded the GVWR, the RAWR, the FAWR, the fivers GVWR, or for that matter any of the trucks or fivers stated max weight requirements. I believe there is a margin of error built into all of these trucks max weight requirements and as long as you don't exceed them (which I have not) then you should be good to go. Just because someone does not list every actual weight does not mean they have not had the rigs weighed and know what the actual weights are. Bad assumption. Enjoy your tow vehicle (dually or not) and your coach. I know I enjoy mine.

Don't recollect very many "assuming" anything....You STILL haven't told us your trucks GVWR, again, doesn't mean much and you still havent told us your trucks RAWR.( listed on the drivers door jamb sticker. Weighing is all well and good, I've done it a lot over the years, BUT, I also know what GVWR & RAWR's are on my truck and I KNOW how much I'm under....and , don't take this the wrong way but if you're stating that your ONLY 218# under your RAWR, you my friend are towing on borrowed time.....Thus the reason I don't know if you DO know your RAWR, or you're getting GVWR AND RAWR confused with what is what...I doubt too many in here would recommend that one load their truck to within 218# of their rear axles weight rating. Even with the safety buffer built in...My RAWR is 9750#, IF I loaded my truck to where I pulled across the scales with my 5er hooked up and my rear axle weight was 9,532#...even the one's who tow based on RAWR are, more than likely, going to tell me that I'm pushing the limits of my truck, or I would think most wouldn't want to be THAT close to their rear axles recommended weight rating. No way would I load and tow with my truck loaded to within 218# of it's listed RAWR...now GVWR?...no problem at all.... One would be WELL under their RAWR if 218# under their trucks GVWR..I not going to claim or "assume" I know more about the tow vehicle than the manufacturers of said vehicle..yes, there are"safety buffers" built into every suspension, part on the TV, but whose to say at what point one starts to push the limits of the TV and start wearing it out prematurely, or start cutting into safety buffers built into the truck.

Thus, maybe our/your confusion....GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating), may be what you're telling us that you're 218# under:h...if so...you're set....you're not only under your trucks GVWR, but WELL under your trucks RAWR, which ARE TWO different ratings.

Where I'm confused is, you stated you were under GVWR and under RAWR...BUT, "IF", as you stated above that you were under your "RAWR" by 218#, that would mean you are WELL over your trucks GVWR.

I'm figuring, not assuming, that you're under all your weights as you stated, but you may have meant to say you were 218# under your trucks GVWR...at that point, we KNOW you're are under your trucks RAWR, as well as tires max rating.


My 5er has a GVW of 16,950# and is loaded to 16,050# (last weight taken, really loaded), with a pin weight of 3300# My trucks GVWR is 14,000# and RAWR is 9750#...My truck, loaded ready for camping is 9,420# +3300# pin weight for a total weight of 12,720#, putting me under my trucks GVWR by 1280#.. Truck with out 5er hooked to it, RAWR was 3860# +3300# pin weight= 7160#, I'm 2,590# under my trucks RAWR....GCWR on my truck is 37,000#.... my truck and 5er together weighs 25,470, so I'm around 11,000# (rough guess) under my trucks GCWR (gross combined weight rating). Just need to know the numbers and what the letters mean, ie GVWR, GCWR, RAWR and FAWR....

So what is your pin weight actually .
Mine is over 4000 and my trailer is 36' and weight is 16,000 and a bit.
Depends where the axles are I know but if I were to guess you must be over 3000# ?

Lots of good info being written about here. Some of you "assume" that I do not know what my GVWR, RAWR, tire max load rating, and actual weights of vehicle and fiver loaded and unloaded. I stated several times that I have had my truck & fiver weighed (several times) at a certified truck scales. On our last 2 week trip to the ocean my actual rear axle weight was 218lbs BELOW the max RAWR. This was with my fiver hooked up. I have not exceeded the GVWR, the RAWR, the FAWR, the fivers GVWR, or for that matter any of the trucks or fivers stated max weight requirements. I believe there is a margin of error built into all of these trucks max weight requirements and as long as you don't exceed them (which I have not) then you should be good to go. Just because someone does not list every actual weight does not mean they have not had the rigs weighed and know what the actual weights are. Bad assumption. Enjoy your tow vehicle (dually or not) and your coach. I know I enjoy mine.

jaycocamper62301 wrote:

fairhaven wrote:
Old-Buscuit I don't understand what point you are trying to make. Are you saying that my fiver is too much for my tow vehicle? Let's see. My truck axle (3.55) is rated to pull a fifth wheel with a max weight of 15,300 pounds. My coach, fully loaded and certified scale weighed (last trip to the ocean) was 13,982 lbs. I am a good 1300lbs under the max fifth wheel requirement. My trucks certified scale weight was well under the loaded max weight requirement for the F350. So, what is your point? Do I need a dually? I don't think so. Am I being unsafe? I don't think so. Could something weird happen and cause me problems? Sure. But something weird could just as easily happen to a dually. I say get what you want and are most comfortable with, and be sure to stay within allowable specs.

This is all great info but you left out the most important number. How much weight is on your back axle only with the camper fully loaded and the truck fully loaded with gear in back, fuel tanks full and a family in the back seat. With my toyhauler I had there was no way that weight on the rear axle was within the specs. Would a F250/F350 SRW pull it...sure. It boils down to how much you value that family that rides along with you and are you willing to roll the dice on their safety when that overloaded rear tire blows or that rear axle breaks

They all seem to forget those facts!

NC Hauler wrote:

fairhaven wrote:
Old-Buscuit I don't understand what point you are trying to make. Are you saying that my fiver is too much for my tow vehicle? Let's see. My truck axle (3.55) is rated to pull a fifth wheel with a max weight of 15,300 pounds. My coach, fully loaded and certified scale weighed (last trip to the ocean) was 13,982 lbs. I am a good 1300lbs under the max fifth wheel requirement. My trucks certified scale weight was well under the loaded max weight requirement for the F350. So, what is your point? Do I need a dually? I don't think so. Am I being unsafe? I don't think so. Could something weird happen and cause me problems? Sure. But something weird could just as easily happen to a dually. I say get what you want and are most comfortable with, and be sure to stay within allowable specs.

As stated earlier, you're not looking at the numbers that mean the most...Most of these "recommended 5er weights you can tow", are mostly "bogus".....IF you have a 15,300# 5er, you COULD have a pin weight of over 3,000#.....Now I don't know what the GVWR of your truck is, but if you weigh your truck, all set up and ready to go camping, full tank of fuel, family pets, gear whatever, 5er hitch, and get THAT weight...NOW add , (giving you the benefit of the doubt, a pin weight of 2800#, based on your 5er weighing 13,982#)...NOW what does your truck weigh? Have you exceeded the trucks GVWR? Not that it matters, because hardly anyone, ('cept for me and a handful of others on this forum), pay ANY attention at all to the trucks GVWR, most go straight for the rear axles weight rating. What is your rear axle weight rating? Odds are, if you hooked up to a 5er that the manufacturer says you can tow, you''ll go over your trucks GVWR and start cutting into it's RAWR...so how far can one cut into the RAWR before starting to wear out their truck, or losing some of their trucks built in safety features...I don't know... but understand that a number that a truck manufacturer has tossed out that states you can tow "X" amount of weight of a 5er is silly, there's more to the formula and pin weight has a big bearing on what truck one might need. Odds are, one will exceed their trucks GVWR before exceeding their trucks GCWR, but again, at what point, if you start cutting into your trucks rear axle weight is it possibly prematurely wearing out your truck.

That is all Old Biscuit was trying to say....Just because manufacturer states you can tow "up to a "X" amount of weight 5er...doesn't alway's mean that it is "necessarily so"...just some simple math and common sense can help one figure out what truck they need to "do the job" and/or "git er done" :)

X2
RAWR and/or Rear Tire MAX Load Rating will be reached/exceeded 'before' reaching that magical tow rating number.

Weighing the truck and trailer is the best way to find out what you have vs any guesstimates using published mfg. numbers.
Good for you taking it across the scales.......
So what are the complete numbers??
Trucks GVWR------trucks actual weight with & without trailer
Trucks F/R axle weight ratings------with & without trailer
Trailers axle weight-------pin weight
All those numbers are available from weigh ticket(s)

My SRW has a Tow Rating of 16,250#......Hahahaha
With 5vr at 13,830# I am at RAWR/Rear Tire Max Load Rating and just over trucks GVWR.....yet still 2420# 'under' that magical tow rating number.
That's my point.......simple reality and doing th math with real numbers.

emscopter wrote:
I have a 2009 F250 right now and we just purchased a 2012 40 foot Alpine fifth wheel. I am wondering if we should get a dually truck and if we should go with a Ford or Dodge. I have had real good luck with this Ford except we had to replace the transmission due to putting on a tuner which I was told made the transmission go out faster. My truck has 86,000 miles on it. We are looking at getting a fairly new used one. Any suggestions would greatly be appreciated.

Looking at the Keystone Alpine website specs show most of the biggest Alpines have a 15500 GVWR with a 12xxx lb shipping weight. Most have around 3000 lb CCC. Using 20 percent hitch weight will have the pin at 3000 lbs. Probably less.

Thats well within some one ton SRW trucks ratings.

Looking at the Ram Body builder guide shows several 3500 SRW crew cab with 12400 GVWR and a 7000 lb RAWR with up to 4500 lbs payload depending on cab selection with up to 17000 lb tow ratings

The F350 SRW crew cab payload is about 500 lbs less for the same cab configuration. You would have to go with a std cab Ford to match that payload.

SRW vs DRW. Your call as they both will do the job.

I think that this thread is about "Ford vs Dodge" for towing.

I learned something a long time ago in farming and it pertains to a tow vehicle as well. I will always take my chances with a big truck doing big and little jobs and never a little truck doing the same big and little jobs. Sooner or later it will bite you in the a$$

Halmfamily wrote:

jaycocamper62301 wrote:

Halmfamily wrote:
We just switched from an '06 F350 SRW 6.0 to an '08 3500 GMC DRW 6.6 LMM. Trailer
Last weighed was 12600lbs, 40' fiver. You can feel the difference in the dually. Our trip last weekend we had good cross winds and never felt the slightest push unlike we did with the SRW. I won't get into the performance difference as I discussed this in a previous thread. My preference is a dually and will never be without one. A dually is no wider than your mirrors, if your mirrors make it through so will the duallys. Good luck with your new truck.

Not my local taco bell...:)

Good point, have not tried a drive thru yet. Taco Bell is over rated anyways.:D

I need you to talk to my kids

jaycocamper62301 wrote:

Halmfamily wrote:
We just switched from an '06 F350 SRW 6.0 to an '08 3500 GMC DRW 6.6 LMM. Trailer
Last weighed was 12600lbs, 40' fiver. You can feel the difference in the dually. Our trip last weekend we had good cross winds and never felt the slightest push unlike we did with the SRW. I won't get into the performance difference as I discussed this in a previous thread. My preference is a dually and will never be without one. A dually is no wider than your mirrors, if your mirrors make it through so will the duallys. Good luck with your new truck.

Not my local taco bell...:)

Good point, have not tried a drive thru yet. Taco Bell is over rated anyways.:D