GCWR vs GVWR question

drillagent wrote:
I know the weight topic has been beat to death on this forum, but I may have just come to a realization and after searching, I can't find the answer to my question. The weight capacities of my TV and 5th wheel are below. So here it goes.

From what I've read here and what I've been told by Ford, the weight ratings are based on what the vehicle can STOP. So going by the ratings below, my truck can STOP a 5th wheel that weighs up to 15,200lbs. Everyone talks about the GVWR and the pin weight.

Is the pin weight subtracted from the trailer weight? The pin weight is 2175lbs of the 12,201lbs trailer weight, right? So the truck is carrying 2175lbs, and towing 10,026lbs? I guess the real question is, if the GCWR is below the 23,500lbs weight rating, but because of the pin weight, is above the 10,000lbs GVWR but below the 6,000lbs GAWR, am I actually considered overweight when it comes to STOPPING the vehicle? When it comes down to it, just because I may be below the 10,000lbs GVWR, I've still got another 10,000lbs of trailer to stop. And if you do the math, with an 18% pin weight (based on Keystone website calculations) of the 15,200lbs TV capacity, there is no way you can be under GVWR unless you have a 160lbs driver with no passenger. So, does the GVWR really matter when I'm towing a 5th wheel or just when I'm hauling a load of rock without a trailer?

I have a 2012 F250 Diesel. All weights are per 2012 Ford towing guide or actual scale weight.

Truck weight w/o passengers 7100
GVWR 10,000
Max 5th Wheel towing 15,200
GCWR 23,500
Rear Axle GAWR 6,000

Looking at purchasing 2010 Montana 3750FLF. All weights per Keystone website.
Dry weight 12201
Hitch weight 2175
Carry Capacity 3474

First, do yourself a favor and forget dry weight...no one will tow a 5er "dry", It appears that the 5er's GVW that you are looking at will be 15,675....odds are you may never fill to the 5er's rated GVWR,( but don't know how you or anyone else would know that until you fill it up , then weigh it), but it is probably FAR more realistic than a 5er's dry/empty weight... (maybe somewhere in the middle? approx 14,000#)....which might give you a more "realistic" pin weight of, (using manufacturers "suggested" 18%), would make pin weight a more realistic 2520#

GVWR of your truck is 10,000#...supposedly meaning that you shouldn't load your truck with fuel, people, pets, supplies, trailer hitch and 5er's pin weight to over that 10,000# weight...BUT, most on these forums, unlike me, use the trucks RAWR to figure how much they can load their truck to...so if you weigh your truck and rear axle weight shows a weight of 3,000#, you still have 3,000# of payload you can load your truck to....much easier way to get every ounce of your truck you can, while also getting rid of any buffer you might have, unless you go with tires that will handle more weight, then you could even load to OVER your RAWR recommendation due to having tires that will handle more weight.

GCWR is the combined weight of the truck and the 5er, no matter where you put the weight..pull on the scales and it's total weight ......period...very simple...if truck weighs 10,000# and the 5er weights 13,500#, you are at your trucks GCWR of 23,500#, but again, to most in here, it's just a number that doesn't matter, it's not a number that is enforced, it's not illegal and most do it all the time from everything I read on these forums when I post something really simple, like trying to stay within a truck manufacturers recommended limits...a truly silly concept.

As also stated, your trailer brakes brake the trailer in correlation with your truck brakes braking the truck..Seeing as how there have been more than several of us in here whose 5er cable has, at one time or other, malfunctioned, or become disconnected, (as it did once in my case), at that point....your truck WILL have to stop both the trailer and your truck...been there, done that, got the T-shirt...can be hairy, but it may never happen to you, so don't worry about it, it it does, trucks brakes have to stop entire load.

I would want to know the GVW of your 5er and go from there...to me it's hard to "guess" how much you'll load your 5er to, so a weight somewhere in the middle of "dry weight" and GVW would be far more practical to use than an unrealistic "dry weight", which no one will be towing....

My company manufacturers brakes, what some say in here about brakes and what is an actual truth can be two worlds apart...having had a disconnected cable from my 5er to my truck, (5er was 16,000#), going down a long steep grade...yeah, the truck brakes can stop the whole load, BUT, it wasn't as efficient as one would hope....but I'm just speaking from experience and being in the business of designing and manufacturing , I do know a little bit about that aspect of the truck

Bottom line, most will tell you not to worry about GCWR or GVWR..., I'm one of those fools who tends to try to err to the side of manufacturers recommendations. You may be over your trucks GVWR, but not it's RAWR....you might be over the trucks GCWR, but others will tell you they do it all the time, no big deal, hook up and go....you sure won't be pulled over or get in trouble about it, so that's a worry you really don't need to linger on.

Almost everyone on these forums ignores GVWR and GCWR...so you should be fine...i'm one of the few that believes those numbers should mean something and try to stay within them, but not a big deal one way or the other.

you should be just fine as you will be told by the majority of towers in here, most will frown on my post and resort to name calling, but it's all good....I'm use to it...You have a newer truck, you should be fine TON's of people tow really heavy with 3/4 ton trucks and there is no carnage on the roads and you certainly won't be pulled over for what your towing, so that is one worry you can forget about....

Your truck, your 5er, your money, your decison...actually believe you'll be ok.

You have a newer 3/4 ton truck, shouldn't be an issue.