Hitch pin location

Reddog1 wrote:
I prefer not to go into any more details than I have, simply because I don't see where it adds to the discussion. I have given the weights, and while they could be plus or minus 20 lbs, I doubt it.

Unfortunately, it is very relevant as the numbers you are claiming don't match logically.

NADA says your trailer should be around 3300lbs empty (twin axle variant). I also looked at similar size trailers (not many 5th wheels that size) and they were all similar empty weights.

If the axles are rated at 2820, that means the max weight of the trailer fully loaded is 5640lbs. If you are scaling out empty at over 5000lbs, that means there is only a cargo capacity of around 600lbs which is crazy low. I would expect something on the order of 1500-2000lb cargo capacity.

Something is clearly wrong with the numbers and if the numbers you are reporting are correct, you are way low on pin weight.

My best guess is the 500lb on the sticker is the pin weight when empty which would correspond to around 18%. A bit light but if they are figuring your average 1/2ton is oversized, they may figure they can get away with being slightly on the light side.

360lb pin weight on a 5000lb fully loaded may result in sway issues because it is extreme. It may not happen in all conditions but I would hate to find out taking a corner.

As far as getting manufacturers to say it's OK to drive with the hitch in the slid back position, good luck. There is no benefit to them approving this regardless. If you can't do a full structural analysis, just don't. It's not just you that could be in danger if something fails at 60mph.

newman fulltimer wrote:
1. why extend a extended pin box ?

I did not extend an extended pin box. I extended a pin box 10 inches. In my opinion, the truck bumper was too close to the trailer. The added 10" took care of that.

newman fulltimer wrote:
now you are nose high puts less weight on the truck

How do you come to this conclusion?

newman fulltimer wrote:
2. why a slidder hitch in a long bed ?

Short answer, because I want one. Several advantages for my needs.

newman fulltimer wrote:
its about geometry and obvious the setup is not right

Obvious to whom and based on what criteria?

Butch50 wrote:
Wayne,

I don't think you would have any problem. Heck how many people here have loaded 400# in the very rear of their truck and driven with them without any problems. With your truck I wouldn't see that the truck would even squat at all. I think the main reason for the warnings is with heavier trailers and the hitch in the rear position is it could cause a lot of sway. Your light trailer is not going to cause any sway. Also it might be a braking problem with a heaver trailer that the hitch is not built for the force pushing forward on the locking device. Where the slider in the front/travel position it is locked into the front/beefer portion of the hitch but again I don't know if with your trailer if this is a concern.

I have seen your posts on the TC forum when I carried a TCer so I know you are inventive so look for a way to make a brace to make sure that the slider is locked so it can't slide forward in an emergency braking condition and I wouldn't see any problem.

Butch

Thanks for your encouragement. I too think the lighter the trailer, the less critical the sway due to tongue weight. There is a limit as to just how light it can be, and I think I am there now. I am considering putting lead in the pin box for ballast, maybe 200 plus lbs. That would bring the pin weight up to about 560 lbs. May even add a bit more.

It I do get a slider, and two with it in the back position, I cannot see how even 500 lbs behind the axle would make any difference. For the concern on braking, I probably would use the same concept used to secure a sliding door. Drop au channel on each side to prevent slider movement, secured with pins.

1. why extend a extended pin box ? now you are nose high puts less weight on the truck
2. why a slidder hitch in a long bed ? its about geometry and obvious the setup is not right

Reddog1 wrote:
Old-Biscuit, with all due respect, there are several ways to weigh a truck and trailer. I prefer not to go into any more details than I have, simply because I don't see where it adds to the discussion. I have given the weights, and while they could be plus or minus 20 lbs, I doubt it.

Guess that is the end of discussion

As I stated earlier.......one can do what they want to do --- regardless of information provided by MFGs

Butch50, got to run, respond tater.

Old-Biscuit, with all due respect, there are several ways to weigh a truck and trailer. I prefer not to go into any more details than I have, simply because I don't see where it adds to the discussion. I have given the weights, and while they could be plus or minus 20 lbs, I doubt it.

Wayne,

I don't think you would have any problem. Heck how many people here have loaded 400# in the very rear of their truck and driven with them without any problems. With your truck I wouldn't see that the truck would even squat at all. I think the main reason for the warnings is with heavier trailers and the hitch in the rear position is it could cause a lot of sway. Your light trailer is not going to cause any sway. Also it might be a braking problem with a heaver trailer that the hitch is not built for the force pushing forward on the locking device. Where the slider in the front/travel position it is locked into the front/beefer portion of the hitch but again I don't know if with your trailer if this is a concern.

I have seen your posts on the TC forum when I carried a TCer so I know you are inventive so look for a way to make a brace to make sure that the slider is locked so it can't slide forward in an emergency braking condition and I wouldn't see any problem.

Butch

Reddog1 wrote:
Old-Biscuit, earlier you said 20%, now you have seen 15%. Maybe you have learned something new?

What is truck Rear Axle weights
With 5vr hitched ? 8860
W/O 5vr hitched? 8860-4740= 4120

No haven't seen 15% in any MFGs fine print
TTs....10-15% FW....20-25%

Experience towing 5th wheels........pin weight LIGHTER then 20% resulting in chucking and sway
20% plus is pretty much standard for wet pin weights


YOUR trucks REAR axle weighted 8860 with FW hitched
And the trucks REAR axle weighed 4120???

I am talking TRUCK REAR AXLE weight....with & w/o FW hitched
Or did you not weigh on a 3 platform scale (Truck Front Axle---Truck Rear Axle----Trailer Axles) BUT just on a 2 platform scale (truck on one & trailer on other)??

Old-Biscuit, earlier you said 20%, now you have seen 15%. Maybe you have learned something new?

What is truck Rear Axle weights
With 5vr hitched ? 8860
W/O 5vr hitched? 8860-4740= 4120