Keystone Raptor axles/tires rating

I read this topic and today i purchased a 2015 keystone impact 11600 lb GVW is 16500 lb. I dough I load it 15000 lb.The axles on my Impact are 7000 lb rated with 16 inch tires and 8 lug rims e rated. I tried to get D rated tires but they wouldn't go for it.

Hello , I'm a new member.
I am looking at a used 2011 Raptor 300MP and after reading all the concerns about the axles I am wondering if this should be the one I would want.
Do any of you 300MP owners know where the GVWR sticker is located so I can check if the axles on this unit has been upgraded.
Thanks

Have an 06 3612ds Raptor,3 axles and each 5200 each. Trailer empty is 11200and max is 15500,thats what is on the sticker.By your figuring I can load another 20% and that would be hitch weight.Sure soumds better than I thought.Went to XPS Ribs after China -blows lasted 1 year.Never tor up trailer,I always cought early with an infrared temp gun.Works great,walk around trailer shoot the tires and bearings,all within 10 degrees of the others ,all good.One tire was delaminating with a bulge on the inside and about 50degrees hotter than others...well worth the price of the temp gun..

Well, it's taken quite a bit of time and "dialog" between my Dealer, Keystone RV and me, but my Raptor 300 mp now has a brand new set of 7000 lb axles, installed, same as the 2012 models. Fortunately for me, the Dealership owner, really went to bat for me. I doubt I would have prevailed, otherwise. My comfort level will be considerably higher now.

Mark

mneibuhr wrote:
well for what its worth, Keystone is saying that the RV is overloaded, and the axles are the right rating for the unit. They also stated that I need to take up my issue with the Dealer. As of right now they (dealer) aren't responding to my email request to meet with the owner, salesman and service rep.

I still plan to push this, as it's very misleading as to what I can carry.

Mark

Sorry to hear about getting the run around. Have you looked and made sure all your federal labeling is correct based on installed components.
Jimnlin's link above to 49 CFR Part 571 is the current federal regs for first retail sale and must be read as homogeneous like most governmental statues.

My old rig weighed about the same as yours and was delivered with 6K axles. We had several tire failures and (un)bent axles in the first year. Dutchmen replaced everything between the ground and the frame with 7K rated which was standard equipment for the next model year.

Your axles should be able to handle your rig, but the same rating on mine couldn't.

well for what its worth, Keystone is saying that the RV is overloaded, and the axles are the right rating for the unit. They also stated that I need to take up my issue with the Dealer. As of right now they (dealer) aren't responding to my email request to meet with the owner, salesman and service rep.

I still plan to push this, as it's very misleading as to what I can carry.

Mark

The way it reads on the website is that "It was Proposed". I believe that is why it is not enforced. Its not a law. What the change was that the Load Carrying Capacity (Payload) must be on teh GVWR sticker, Manufacturer selected tire size with matching tire, and that any options added effecting the weight must have the GVWR sticker revised reflecting the new dry weight and payload capabilities (But that has not been the case)

1. NPRM--In the NPRM, We proposed to amend FMVSS No. 120 to require
that the sum of the GAWRs of all the axles on a motor home and that the
sum of the GAWRs of all the axles on a ``travel trailer'' plus the
``tongue load rating'' not be less than the GVWR of each respective
vehicle. We noted that the proposed requirement would not prevent
individual tires on motor homes and ``travel trailers'' from being
overloaded.

That leads me to believe it has not been passed, only propose. Mind you if this would pass this is only concerning Motor Homes and Travel Trailers . With that being said is a 5th wheel RV even considered a "Travel Trailer". Could they be referring to only bumper pulled trailers??

But what you are saying it states it but I think something is missing. Because Manufacturers dont like to break Federals Laws that can lead to public civil lawsuits. If this is the case, this would extremely expose to said manufacturers of RV's to lawsuits.

SO either this was only proposed and never passed or it only pertains to Motor Homes and Bumper Pull RV.

This is no different then needing a Non-CDL Class A for GCWR of 26,001 or higher on some rigs. People believe they are immune because they tow a RV. Weight is weight and it does not matter who is driving for what reason. I wish the Law would crack down on it. I have way less faith in people that tow RV's then anybody else that is on the road towing legally.

But I am going to look into this more. But thank you for showing me that website. It is alot easier to read then the one I was reading earlier today about it.

GVWR and GAWR are two totally different numbers. The FMVSS 571 does not mandate the GAWR and GVWR be the same thing

Yor talking about what has been in the past and was correct prior to 6/15/'08 when the new regs were put in place.

571.120 S10.2
On RV trailers, the sum of the GAWRs of all axles on the vehicle plus the vehicle manufacturer's recommended tongue weight must not be less than the GVWR. If tongue weight is specified as a range, the minimum value must be used.

As I've said before, one TH member in '08 has alredy used the new 571 regs to force his TH manufacture to install higher rated axles to match the trailers GCWR. I'm simply passing along previous info.

The new regs were the result of The May Petition

In a petition dated January 21, 2000, Ms. Justine May petitioned
NHTSA to amend Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) Number
120, Tire selection and rims for motor vehicles other than passenger
cars. Ms. May requested that FMVSS No. 120 be revised in such a way
that motor vehicles would be equipped with tires that meet maximum load
standards when the vehicle is loaded with a reasonable amount of
luggage and the total number of passengers the vehicle is designed to
carry. Ms. May's stated reason for her petition was her family's
personal experience with a fifth-wheel travel trailer. She stated that
there was no information provided with her trailer stating its cargo
carrying capacity (CCC). Ms. May believes that loading her vehicle with
cargo for a trip placed it in an overloaded condition, resulting in

[[Page 68443]]
The document is available in docket NHTSA-2005-22242-3. http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2007-12-04/html/E7-22962.htm.

Interesting read and it explains how and why of the new reg.

GVWR and GAWR are two totally different numbers. The FMVSS 571 does not mandate the GAWR and GVWR be the same thing.

The GVWR is the maximum weight that the Chassis of said vehicle is allowed. This includes the Pin/Tongue Weight, Axle Weight, and/or If resting on the front jacks those weights as well.

Because the GVWR (Also referred to as GTWR being that we are referring to a trailer) is a shared weight with the Tow Vehicle and the Trailer Axles it can/will differ from the GAWR.

Most Triple axle RV such as Toy Haulers have a Chassis rated for 18,000lb, which is why they have a GVWR of 18k. Being that they also use 6k axles the GAWR also is a 18k GAWR. This is very common for trailers to have matching GAWR and GVWR.

Toy Haulers are allowed to go up to 25% over the GAWR to identify what the GVWR is. Now that is not a governed number but a sort of "rule of thumb" As that weight will be transfered to the TV through the Pin.

I just sold a 35ft gooseneck that carried a 25,900 GVWR and only had (2) 12k axles under it.

But like I said, there is no mandate that forces the GAWR to match the GVWR. IF that was true you would see the Logistics/Trucking Companies go on strike in the US.

Matter of fact my GVWR and GAWR are both 14,000 on my trailer. Which is incorrect. Heartland is sending me a new Sticker that reflects the correct GVWR of 16,000.

Look at Landmark trailers, they all have (2) 7klb axles and carry a 16,250 GVWR

Yes, All of these trailers handle their portion of the GVWR. IT is utterly impossible to apply 100% of the GVWR to the trailer axles. There is always going to be shared weight. It will either be through the Hitch if connected to a TV or on the Jacks if unhitched from a TV. It is up to you to load a trailer properly in order to meet the weight requirements over the axle and over the hitch for even weight distribution.

Now some trailers manufacturers purposely match the GVWR and GAWR because of weight distribution and payload can very a large amount. Such as a Cattle trailer (Stock Trailer). These are trailers that tend to be overloaded. Carrying a matched GVWR/GAWR will help prevent that

Here is a simple website to help understand the difference between GVWR and GAWR

GVWR definition