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CYCLEPATH's avatar
CYCLEPATH
Explorer
Jun 19, 2023

Open Ground

Hello all. Just made the jump from my Lance camper, which I loved, to an Alliance Paradigm 310RL. It's a beautiful rig. The day after bringing it home, I was going over the electrical system. It has what they call the Super Solar Package.

When on inverter power, and onboard Onan generator power, I am showing an open ground on the outlet tester, in all the outlets I tested. On our 30amp home shore power, the outlets test normal. I have read where some say this is normal, others that it is not. Any hard core RV electrical guys out there with an opinion? I have a service call into Alliance, but have not heard back from them yet. Thank you all.

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  • opnspaces's avatar
    opnspaces
    Navigator II
    Jun 23, 2023
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    I lived in an old house built in the 40's with 2 wire outlets. There is no path to ground. Sure the panel might have a wire that goes to a water pipe. But the outlets themselves with their 2 wire green fabric coated insulation do not have a third bare wire to get to a ground (copper pipe or otherwise).

    The GFCI will protect and trip on a 2 wire system with no ground connection.

    The Imbalance you are looking for is the person holding the plug as they are plugging in a lamp with a bare wire poking out of the insulation. Yep happened to me but no GFCI to test it against. I just got the tingle and let go. But the bottom line is the GFCI is there for current getting where it doesn't belong. Whether the unintended path is a persons hand, a dog's nose, or whatever.
  • BB_TX's avatar
    BB_TX
    Nomad
    Jun 23, 2023
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    I never said Mike was wrong. GFCIs are permitted in older homes with no ground. And they work because of home plumbing being earth grounded by being buried underground. RVs do not have that same grounding and is a totally different story. That is why NEC specifies an RV using a generator must have a ground-fault path provided. Different requirement than that for an older home.

    And I will ask you the same question. If there is no path back to the source power for current "leakage", how can an imbalance occur between the hot and neutral? That missing current can not simply disappear. And the same statement. Current can not flow without an electrical path back to its source.

    I really want to know.
  • ScottG's avatar
    ScottG
    Nomad
    Jun 23, 2023
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    Mike134 wrote:
    BB_TX wrote:
    If you have an open ground, your GFCI outlets are not going to trip on a ground fault. They require an electrical path to the power source neutral-ground bond to trip. And if you should have a hot wire shorted to ground or RV frame it will not trip the circuit breaker. It will create a hot frame though. None of which are good conditions. .


    This is incorrect. GFI outlets work just fine without a ground wire present.
    In fact, the NEC allows you to replace old 2 wire outlets in old homes not having ground wires with 3 wire outlets provided you use a GFI outlet.
    https://www.ecmweb.com/content/article/20896746/replacing-2wire-ungrounded-receptacles


    Mike is correct and indeed it is even allowed by NEC to replace an ungrounded bathroom receptacle (as found in old homes) with a GFCI that has no ground connection at all. A GFCI's function has nothing to do with its ground connection.
  • BB_TX's avatar
    BB_TX
    Nomad
    Jun 23, 2023
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    enblethen wrote:
    Get away from the GFI talk and get to basics of the electrical system. Bonding of the neutral and ground needs to be accomplished in accordance with NEC Article 250-92.

    And NEC 551.30(A) which is specific to generators in RVs and requires “an effective ground-fault return path”.
  • BB_TX's avatar
    BB_TX
    Nomad
    Jun 23, 2023
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    Mike134 wrote:


    Be happy to explain why your wrong about GFIs needing a "ground reference" to work and trip.
    They operate to save your life from an electric shock by constantly comparing the current flowing in the hot and neutral wires. If there is more than a 5-milliamp difference between the 2 wires it trip. They don't need any type of "refence to ground" they just monitor amperage in the hot and neutral wire to be sure they are within .005amps of each other.

    I'm not your typical armchair expert (retired master electrician) What is your training in the electrical field if I may ask?

    Note the last sentence in the first paragraph of "how do they work"
    .
    https://www.cpsc.gov/s3fs-public/099_0.pdf

    I am well aware how they work. But if you have 5 amps flowing in the HOT pin and 5 amps minus 5 milliamps flowing back into NEU pin (5 ma imbalance), where did that lost 5 milliamps go? It can’t flow out into thin air. It can only flow back to the power source through some conductive path. Again, a very basic principle of electricity. Tell me where that conductive path is in an RV where there is no ground path back to the generator when the neutral and ground are not connected.

    And I am a BSEE, registered professional engineer state of Texas (retired), and worked 35 years as a safety system design engineer. Thank you for asking.
  • enblethen's avatar
    enblethen
    Nomad
    Jun 23, 2023
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    Get away from the GFI talk and get to basics of the electrical system. Bonding of the neutral and ground needs to be accomplished in accordance with NEC Article 250-92.
  • Mike134's avatar
    Mike134
    Explorer
    Jun 23, 2023
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    Be happy to explain why your wrong about GFIs needing a "ground reference" to work and trip.
    They operate to save your life from an electric shock by constantly comparing the current flowing in the hot and neutral wires. If there is more than a 5-milliamp difference between the 2 wires it trip. They don't need any type of "refence to ground" they just monitor amperage in the hot and neutral wire to be sure they are within .005amps of each other.

    I'm not your typical armchair expert (retired master electrician) What is your training in the electrical field if I may ask?

    Note the last sentence in the first paragraph of "how do they work"
    .
    https://www.cpsc.gov/s3fs-public/099_0.pdf
  • BB_TX's avatar
    BB_TX
    Nomad
    Jun 22, 2023
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    Apples and oranges.

    In an old home without grounding, GFCI outlets will still trip because water and gas pipes buried underground provide an earth ground source to divert any ground fault current leakage around the GFCI outlet back to the power source to create the imbalance.

    With an RV where the generator neutral and ground are not bonded and the RV and generator are not grounded to earth there is no path for any fault to leak current around the GFCI outlet. (If you know of a path please tell me.) That is why the National Electric Code section for RV generator power statement posted on page 1 of this discussion states the requirement for bonding and creating a ground-fault path. That is further supported by the OSHA statement on page 2. Basic principle of electricity is that a closed circuit is required for current flow.

    If I am wrong please explain why.
  • Mike134's avatar
    Mike134
    Explorer
    Jun 22, 2023
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    BB_TX wrote:
    If you have an open ground, your GFCI outlets are not going to trip on a ground fault. They require an electrical path to the power source neutral-ground bond to trip. And if you should have a hot wire shorted to ground or RV frame it will not trip the circuit breaker. It will create a hot frame though. None of which are good conditions. .


    This is incorrect. GFI outlets work just fine without a ground wire present.
    In fact, the NEC allows you to replace old 2 wire outlets in old homes not having ground wires with 3 wire outlets provided you use a GFI outlet.
    https://www.ecmweb.com/content/article/20896746/replacing-2wire-ungrounded-receptacles
  • CYCLEPATH's avatar
    CYCLEPATH
    Explorer
    Jun 22, 2023
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    Too late. Just got off the phone with Alliance. He said it is normal, that is the way they wire the coach. Stated what is now becoming the obvious - not grounded to earth. He said since they wire it that way, IF there was a problem, it would be covered under warranty.
    I'm not sure what I have learned from this whole thing, but I certainly climbed around that unit and traced a whole lot of wires. That was quite enlightening. Also installed a Renogy BT-2 on the solar controller while I was in there.
    I appreciate the time you all took to send your replies. Very much. Thank you all.

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Open Ground","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:3613624"},"body":"I lived in an old house built in the 40's with 2 wire outlets. There is no path to ground. Sure the panel might have a wire that goes to a water pipe. But the outlets themselves with their 2 wire green fabric coated insulation do not have a third bare wire to get to a ground (copper pipe or otherwise).

The GFCI will protect and trip on a 2 wire system with no ground connection.

The Imbalance you are looking for is the person holding the plug as they are plugging in a lamp with a bare wire poking out of the insulation. Yep happened to me but no GFCI to test it against. I just got the tingle and let go. But the bottom line is the GFCI is there for current getting where it doesn't belong. Whether the unintended path is a persons hand, a dog's nose, or whatever.","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2023-06-23T06:42:49.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2023-06-23T06:42:49.000-07:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":1288},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:FifthWheel/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:FifthWheelforum-board/message:3613591/message:3613624","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"readOnly":false,"editFrozen":false,"body@stringLength":"791","rawBody":"I lived in an old house built in the 40's with 2 wire outlets. There is no path to ground. Sure the panel might have a wire that goes to a water pipe. But the outlets themselves with their 2 wire green fabric coated insulation do not have a third bare wire to get to a ground (copper pipe or otherwise).

The GFCI will protect and trip on a 2 wire system with no ground connection.

The Imbalance you are looking for is the person holding the plug as they are plugging in a lamp with a bare wire poking out of the insulation. Yep happened to me but no GFCI to test it against. I just got the tingle and let go. But the bottom line is the GFCI is there for current getting where it doesn't belong. Whether the unintended path is a persons hand, a dog's nose, or whatever.","images":{"__typename":"AssociatedImageConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"timeToRead":1,"currentRevision":{"__ref":"Revision:revision:3613624_1"},"latestVersion":null,"messagePolicies":{"__typename":"MessagePolicies","canModerateSpamMessage":{"__typename":"PolicyResult","failureReason":{"__typename":"FailureReason","message":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","key":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","args":[]}}}},"Rank:rank:39":{"__typename":"Rank","id":"rank:39","position":29,"name":"Nomad","color":"333333","icon":null,"rankStyle":"TEXT"},"User:user:165874":{"__typename":"User","id":"user:165874","uid":165874,"login":"BB_TX","biography":null,"registrationData":{"__typename":"RegistrationData","status":null,"registrationTime":"2005-04-04T05:23:59.000-07:00"},"deleted":false,"email":"","avatar":{"__typename":"UserAvatar","url":"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/m_assets/avatars/default/avatar-2.svg?time=1737155183000"},"rank":{"__ref":"Rank:rank:39"},"entityType":"USER","eventPath":"community:feyqc97479/user:165874"},"ModerationData:moderation_data:3613623":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:3613623","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:3613623":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:165874"},"id":"message:3613623","revisionNum":1,"uid":3613623,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:FifthWheelforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:3613591"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:3613591"},"subject":"Re: Open Ground","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:3613623"},"body":"I never said Mike was wrong. GFCIs are permitted in older homes with no ground. And they work because of home plumbing being earth grounded by being buried underground. RVs do not have that same grounding and is a totally different story. That is why NEC specifies an RV using a generator must have a ground-fault path provided. Different requirement than that for an older home.

And I will ask you the same question. If there is no path back to the source power for current \"leakage\", how can an imbalance occur between the hot and neutral? That missing current can not simply disappear. And the same statement. Current can not flow without an electrical path back to its source.

I really want to know.","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2023-06-23T06:27:57.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2023-06-23T06:27:57.000-07:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":1290},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:FifthWheel/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:FifthWheelforum-board/message:3613591/message:3613623","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"readOnly":false,"editFrozen":false,"body@stringLength":"725","rawBody":"I never said Mike was wrong. GFCIs are permitted in older homes with no ground. And they work because of home plumbing being earth grounded by being buried underground. RVs do not have that same grounding and is a totally different story. That is why NEC specifies an RV using a generator must have a ground-fault path provided. Different requirement than that for an older home.

And I will ask you the same question. If there is no path back to the source power for current \"leakage\", how can an imbalance occur between the hot and neutral? That missing current can not simply disappear. And the same statement. Current can not flow without an electrical path back to its source.

I really want to know.","images":{"__typename":"AssociatedImageConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"timeToRead":1,"currentRevision":{"__ref":"Revision:revision:3613623_1"},"latestVersion":null,"messagePolicies":{"__typename":"MessagePolicies","canModerateSpamMessage":{"__typename":"PolicyResult","failureReason":{"__typename":"FailureReason","message":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","key":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","args":[]}}}},"User:user:317820":{"__typename":"User","id":"user:317820","uid":317820,"login":"ScottG","biography":null,"registrationData":{"__typename":"RegistrationData","status":null,"registrationTime":"2005-02-25T08:54:16.000-08:00"},"deleted":false,"email":"","avatar":{"__typename":"UserAvatar","url":"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/m_assets/avatars/default/avatar-4.svg?time=1737155183000"},"rank":{"__ref":"Rank:rank:39"},"entityType":"USER","eventPath":"community:feyqc97479/user:317820"},"ModerationData:moderation_data:3613622":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:3613622","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:3613622":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:317820"},"id":"message:3613622","revisionNum":1,"uid":3613622,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:FifthWheelforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:3613591"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:3613591"},"subject":"Re: Open Ground","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:3613622"},"body":"
Mike134 wrote:
BB_TX wrote:
If you have an open ground, your GFCI outlets are not going to trip on a ground fault. They require an electrical path to the power source neutral-ground bond to trip. And if you should have a hot wire shorted to ground or RV frame it will not trip the circuit breaker. It will create a hot frame though. None of which are good conditions. .


This is incorrect. GFI outlets work just fine without a ground wire present.
In fact, the NEC allows you to replace old 2 wire outlets in old homes not having ground wires with 3 wire outlets provided you use a GFI outlet.
https://www.ecmweb.com/content/article/20896746/replacing-2wire-ungrounded-receptacles


Mike is correct and indeed it is even allowed by NEC to replace an ungrounded bathroom receptacle (as found in old homes) with a GFCI that has no ground connection at all. A GFCI's function has nothing to do with its ground connection.","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2023-06-22T21:34:43.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2023-06-22T21:34:43.000-07:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":1287},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:FifthWheel/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:FifthWheelforum-board/message:3613591/message:3613622","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"readOnly":false,"editFrozen":false,"body@stringLength":"1008","rawBody":"
Mike134 wrote:
BB_TX wrote:
If you have an open ground, your GFCI outlets are not going to trip on a ground fault. They require an electrical path to the power source neutral-ground bond to trip. And if you should have a hot wire shorted to ground or RV frame it will not trip the circuit breaker. It will create a hot frame though. None of which are good conditions. .


This is incorrect. GFI outlets work just fine without a ground wire present.
In fact, the NEC allows you to replace old 2 wire outlets in old homes not having ground wires with 3 wire outlets provided you use a GFI outlet.
https://www.ecmweb.com/content/article/20896746/replacing-2wire-ungrounded-receptacles


Mike is correct and indeed it is even allowed by NEC to replace an ungrounded bathroom receptacle (as found in old homes) with a GFCI that has no ground connection at all. A GFCI's function has nothing to do with its ground connection.","images":{"__typename":"AssociatedImageConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"timeToRead":1,"currentRevision":{"__ref":"Revision:revision:3613622_1"},"latestVersion":null,"messagePolicies":{"__typename":"MessagePolicies","canModerateSpamMessage":{"__typename":"PolicyResult","failureReason":{"__typename":"FailureReason","message":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","key":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","args":[]}}}},"ModerationData:moderation_data:3613621":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:3613621","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:3613621":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:165874"},"id":"message:3613621","revisionNum":1,"uid":3613621,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:FifthWheelforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:3613591"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:3613591"},"subject":"Re: Open Ground","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:3613621"},"body":"
enblethen wrote:
Get away from the GFI talk and get to basics of the electrical system. Bonding of the neutral and ground needs to be accomplished in accordance with NEC Article 250-92.

And NEC 551.30(A) which is specific to generators in RVs and requires “an effective ground-fault return path”.","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2023-06-22T19:34:47.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2023-06-22T19:34:47.000-07:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":1288},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:FifthWheel/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:FifthWheelforum-board/message:3613591/message:3613621","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"readOnly":false,"editFrozen":false,"body@stringLength":"331","rawBody":"
enblethen wrote:
Get away from the GFI talk and get to basics of the electrical system. Bonding of the neutral and ground needs to be accomplished in accordance with NEC Article 250-92.

And NEC 551.30(A) which is specific to generators in RVs and requires “an effective ground-fault return path”.","images":{"__typename":"AssociatedImageConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"timeToRead":1,"currentRevision":{"__ref":"Revision:revision:3613621_1"},"latestVersion":null,"messagePolicies":{"__typename":"MessagePolicies","canModerateSpamMessage":{"__typename":"PolicyResult","failureReason":{"__typename":"FailureReason","message":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","key":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","args":[]}}}},"ModerationData:moderation_data:3613620":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:3613620","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:3613620":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:165874"},"id":"message:3613620","revisionNum":1,"uid":3613620,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:FifthWheelforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:3613591"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:3613591"},"subject":"Re: Open Ground","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:3613620"},"body":"
Mike134 wrote:


Be happy to explain why your wrong about GFIs needing a \"ground reference\" to work and trip.
They operate to save your life from an electric shock by constantly comparing the current flowing in the hot and neutral wires. If there is more than a 5-milliamp difference between the 2 wires it trip. They don't need any type of \"refence to ground\" they just monitor amperage in the hot and neutral wire to be sure they are within .005amps of each other.

I'm not your typical armchair expert (retired master electrician) What is your training in the electrical field if I may ask?

Note the last sentence in the first paragraph of \"how do they work\"
.
https://www.cpsc.gov/s3fs-public/099_0.pdf

I am well aware how they work. But if you have 5 amps flowing in the HOT pin and 5 amps minus 5 milliamps flowing back into NEU pin (5 ma imbalance), where did that lost 5 milliamps go? It can’t flow out into thin air. It can only flow back to the power source through some conductive path. Again, a very basic principle of electricity. Tell me where that conductive path is in an RV where there is no ground path back to the generator when the neutral and ground are not connected.

And I am a BSEE, registered professional engineer state of Texas (retired), and worked 35 years as a safety system design engineer. Thank you for asking.","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2023-06-22T19:28:36.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2023-06-22T19:28:36.000-07:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":726},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:FifthWheel/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:FifthWheelforum-board/message:3613591/message:3613620","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"readOnly":false,"editFrozen":false,"body@stringLength":"1438","rawBody":"
Mike134 wrote:


Be happy to explain why your wrong about GFIs needing a \"ground reference\" to work and trip.
They operate to save your life from an electric shock by constantly comparing the current flowing in the hot and neutral wires. If there is more than a 5-milliamp difference between the 2 wires it trip. They don't need any type of \"refence to ground\" they just monitor amperage in the hot and neutral wire to be sure they are within .005amps of each other.

I'm not your typical armchair expert (retired master electrician) What is your training in the electrical field if I may ask?

Note the last sentence in the first paragraph of \"how do they work\"
.
https://www.cpsc.gov/s3fs-public/099_0.pdf

I am well aware how they work. But if you have 5 amps flowing in the HOT pin and 5 amps minus 5 milliamps flowing back into NEU pin (5 ma imbalance), where did that lost 5 milliamps go? It can’t flow out into thin air. It can only flow back to the power source through some conductive path. Again, a very basic principle of electricity. Tell me where that conductive path is in an RV where there is no ground path back to the generator when the neutral and ground are not connected.

And I am a BSEE, registered professional engineer state of Texas (retired), and worked 35 years as a safety system design engineer. Thank you for asking.","images":{"__typename":"AssociatedImageConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"timeToRead":1,"currentRevision":{"__ref":"Revision:revision:3613620_1"},"latestVersion":null,"messagePolicies":{"__typename":"MessagePolicies","canModerateSpamMessage":{"__typename":"PolicyResult","failureReason":{"__typename":"FailureReason","message":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","key":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","args":[]}}},"customFields":[]},"User:user:1336":{"__typename":"User","id":"user:1336","uid":1336,"login":"enblethen","biography":null,"registrationData":{"__typename":"RegistrationData","status":null,"registrationTime":"2005-01-05T14:08:17.000-08:00"},"deleted":false,"email":"","avatar":{"__typename":"UserAvatar","url":"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/m_assets/avatars/default/avatar-1.svg?time=1737155183000"},"rank":{"__ref":"Rank:rank:39"},"entityType":"USER","eventPath":"community:feyqc97479/user:1336"},"ModerationData:moderation_data:3613619":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:3613619","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:3613619":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:1336"},"id":"message:3613619","revisionNum":1,"uid":3613619,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:FifthWheelforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:3613591"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:3613591"},"subject":"Re: Open Ground","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:3613619"},"body":"Get away from the GFI talk and get to basics of the electrical system. Bonding of the neutral and ground needs to be accomplished in accordance with NEC Article 250-92.","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"168","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2023-06-22T17:56:14.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2023-06-22T17:56:14.000-07:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":653},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:FifthWheel/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:FifthWheelforum-board/message:3613591/message:3613619","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"readOnly":false,"editFrozen":false,"body@stringLength":"168","rawBody":"Get away from the GFI talk and get to basics of the electrical system. Bonding of the neutral and ground needs to be accomplished in accordance with NEC Article 250-92.","images":{"__typename":"AssociatedImageConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"timeToRead":1,"currentRevision":{"__ref":"Revision:revision:3613619_1"},"latestVersion":null,"messagePolicies":{"__typename":"MessagePolicies","canModerateSpamMessage":{"__typename":"PolicyResult","failureReason":{"__typename":"FailureReason","message":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","key":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","args":[]}}}},"User:user:1236":{"__typename":"User","id":"user:1236","uid":1236,"login":"Mike134","biography":null,"registrationData":{"__typename":"RegistrationData","status":null,"registrationTime":"2019-11-20T04:15:02.000-08:00"},"deleted":false,"email":"","avatar":{"__typename":"UserAvatar","url":"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/m_assets/avatars/default/avatar-9.svg?time=1737155183000"},"rank":{"__ref":"Rank:rank:42"},"entityType":"USER","eventPath":"community:feyqc97479/user:1236"},"ModerationData:moderation_data:3613618":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:3613618","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:3613618":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:1236"},"id":"message:3613618","revisionNum":1,"uid":3613618,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:FifthWheelforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:3613591"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:3613591"},"subject":"Re: Open Ground","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:3613618"},"body":"Be happy to explain why your wrong about GFIs needing a \"ground reference\" to work and trip.
They operate to save your life from an electric shock by constantly comparing the current flowing in the hot and neutral wires. If there is more than a 5-milliamp difference between the 2 wires it trip. They don't need any type of \"refence to ground\" they just monitor amperage in the hot and neutral wire to be sure they are within .005amps of each other.

I'm not your typical armchair expert (retired master electrician) What is your training in the electrical field if I may ask?

Note the last sentence in the first paragraph of \"how do they work\"
.
https://www.cpsc.gov/s3fs-public/099_0.pdf","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2023-06-22T17:08:21.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2023-06-22T17:08:21.000-07:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":653},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:FifthWheel/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:FifthWheelforum-board/message:3613591/message:3613618","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"readOnly":false,"editFrozen":false,"body@stringLength":"726","rawBody":"Be happy to explain why your wrong about GFIs needing a \"ground reference\" to work and trip.
They operate to save your life from an electric shock by constantly comparing the current flowing in the hot and neutral wires. If there is more than a 5-milliamp difference between the 2 wires it trip. They don't need any type of \"refence to ground\" they just monitor amperage in the hot and neutral wire to be sure they are within .005amps of each other.

I'm not your typical armchair expert (retired master electrician) What is your training in the electrical field if I may ask?

Note the last sentence in the first paragraph of \"how do they work\"
.
https://www.cpsc.gov/s3fs-public/099_0.pdf","images":{"__typename":"AssociatedImageConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"timeToRead":1,"currentRevision":{"__ref":"Revision:revision:3613618_1"},"latestVersion":null,"messagePolicies":{"__typename":"MessagePolicies","canModerateSpamMessage":{"__typename":"PolicyResult","failureReason":{"__typename":"FailureReason","message":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","key":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","args":[]}}}},"ModerationData:moderation_data:3613617":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:3613617","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:3613617":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:165874"},"id":"message:3613617","revisionNum":1,"uid":3613617,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:FifthWheelforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:3613591"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:3613591"},"subject":"Re: Open Ground","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:3613617"},"body":"Apples and oranges.

In an old home without grounding, GFCI outlets will still trip because water and gas pipes buried underground provide an earth ground source to divert any ground fault current leakage around the GFCI outlet back to the power source to create the imbalance.

With an RV where the generator neutral and ground are not bonded and the RV and generator are not grounded to earth there is no path for any fault to leak current around the GFCI outlet. (If you know of a path please tell me.) That is why the National Electric Code section for RV generator power statement posted on page 1 of this discussion states the requirement for bonding and creating a ground-fault path. That is further supported by the OSHA statement on page 2. Basic principle of electricity is that a closed circuit is required for current flow.

If I am wrong please explain why.","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2023-06-22T16:24:56.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2023-06-22T16:24:56.000-07:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":653},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:FifthWheel/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:FifthWheelforum-board/message:3613591/message:3613617","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"readOnly":false,"editFrozen":false,"body@stringLength":"901","rawBody":"Apples and oranges.

In an old home without grounding, GFCI outlets will still trip because water and gas pipes buried underground provide an earth ground source to divert any ground fault current leakage around the GFCI outlet back to the power source to create the imbalance.

With an RV where the generator neutral and ground are not bonded and the RV and generator are not grounded to earth there is no path for any fault to leak current around the GFCI outlet. (If you know of a path please tell me.) That is why the National Electric Code section for RV generator power statement posted on page 1 of this discussion states the requirement for bonding and creating a ground-fault path. That is further supported by the OSHA statement on page 2. Basic principle of electricity is that a closed circuit is required for current flow.

If I am wrong please explain why.","images":{"__typename":"AssociatedImageConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"timeToRead":1,"currentRevision":{"__ref":"Revision:revision:3613617_1"},"latestVersion":null,"messagePolicies":{"__typename":"MessagePolicies","canModerateSpamMessage":{"__typename":"PolicyResult","failureReason":{"__typename":"FailureReason","message":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","key":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","args":[]}}}},"ModerationData:moderation_data:3613616":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:3613616","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:3613616":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:1236"},"id":"message:3613616","revisionNum":1,"uid":3613616,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:FifthWheelforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:3613591"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:3613591"},"subject":"Re: Open Ground","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:3613616"},"body":"
BB_TX wrote:
If you have an open ground, your GFCI outlets are not going to trip on a ground fault. They require an electrical path to the power source neutral-ground bond to trip. And if you should have a hot wire shorted to ground or RV frame it will not trip the circuit breaker. It will create a hot frame though. None of which are good conditions. .


This is incorrect. GFI outlets work just fine without a ground wire present.
In fact, the NEC allows you to replace old 2 wire outlets in old homes not having ground wires with 3 wire outlets provided you use a GFI outlet.
https://www.ecmweb.com/content/article/20896746/replacing-2wire-ungrounded-receptacles","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2023-06-22T14:44:29.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2023-06-22T14:44:29.000-07:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":652},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:FifthWheel/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:FifthWheelforum-board/message:3613591/message:3613616","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"readOnly":false,"editFrozen":false,"body@stringLength":"716","rawBody":"
BB_TX wrote:
If you have an open ground, your GFCI outlets are not going to trip on a ground fault. They require an electrical path to the power source neutral-ground bond to trip. And if you should have a hot wire shorted to ground or RV frame it will not trip the circuit breaker. It will create a hot frame though. None of which are good conditions. .


This is incorrect. GFI outlets work just fine without a ground wire present.
In fact, the NEC allows you to replace old 2 wire outlets in old homes not having ground wires with 3 wire outlets provided you use a GFI outlet.
https://www.ecmweb.com/content/article/20896746/replacing-2wire-ungrounded-receptacles","images":{"__typename":"AssociatedImageConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"timeToRead":1,"currentRevision":{"__ref":"Revision:revision:3613616_1"},"latestVersion":null,"messagePolicies":{"__typename":"MessagePolicies","canModerateSpamMessage":{"__typename":"PolicyResult","failureReason":{"__typename":"FailureReason","message":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","key":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","args":[]}}}},"ModerationData:moderation_data:3613615":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:3613615","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:3613615":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:51064"},"id":"message:3613615","revisionNum":1,"uid":3613615,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:FifthWheelforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:3613591"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:3613591"},"subject":"Re: Open Ground","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:3613615"},"body":"Too late. Just got off the phone with Alliance. He said it is normal, that is the way they wire the coach. Stated what is now becoming the obvious - not grounded to earth. He said since they wire it that way, IF there was a problem, it would be covered under warranty.
I'm not sure what I have learned from this whole thing, but I certainly climbed around that unit and traced a whole lot of wires. That was quite enlightening. Also installed a Renogy BT-2 on the solar controller while I was in there.
I appreciate the time you all took to send your replies. Very much. Thank you all.","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2023-06-22T13:53:22.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2023-06-22T13:53:22.000-07:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":654},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:FifthWheel/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:FifthWheelforum-board/message:3613591/message:3613615","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"readOnly":false,"editFrozen":false,"body@stringLength":"605","rawBody":"Too late. Just got off the phone with Alliance. He said it is normal, that is the way they wire the coach. Stated what is now becoming the obvious - not grounded to earth. He said since they wire it that way, IF there was a problem, it would be covered under warranty.
I'm not sure what I have learned from this whole thing, but I certainly climbed around that unit and traced a whole lot of wires. That was quite enlightening. Also installed a Renogy BT-2 on the solar controller while I was in there.
I appreciate the time you all took to send your replies. Very much. Thank you all.","images":{"__typename":"AssociatedImageConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"timeToRead":1,"currentRevision":{"__ref":"Revision:revision:3613615_1"},"latestVersion":null,"messagePolicies":{"__typename":"MessagePolicies","canModerateSpamMessage":{"__typename":"PolicyResult","failureReason":{"__typename":"FailureReason","message":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","key":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","args":[]}}}},"CachedAsset:text:en_US-components/community/NavbarDropdownToggle-1741694506000":{"__typename":"CachedAsset","id":"text:en_US-components/community/NavbarDropdownToggle-1741694506000","value":{"ariaLabelClosed":"Press the down arrow to open the menu"},"localOverride":false},"CachedAsset:text:en_US-components/messages/EscalatedMessageBanner-1741694506000":{"__typename":"CachedAsset","id":"text:en_US-components/messages/EscalatedMessageBanner-1741694506000","value":{"escalationMessage":"Escalated to Salesforce by {username} on {date}","viewDetails":"View Details","modalTitle":"Case Details","escalatedBy":"Escalated by: ","escalatedOn":"Escalated on: ","caseNumber":"Case Number: ","status":"Status: ","lastUpdateDate":"Last Update: ","automaticEscalation":"automatic escalation","anonymous":"Anonymous"},"localOverride":false},"CachedAsset:text:en_US-components/users/UserLink-1741694506000":{"__typename":"CachedAsset","id":"text:en_US-components/users/UserLink-1741694506000","value":{"authorName":"View Profile: {author}","anonymous":"Anonymous"},"localOverride":false},"CachedAsset:text:en_US-shared/client/components/users/UserRank-1741694506000":{"__typename":"CachedAsset","id":"text:en_US-shared/client/components/users/UserRank-1741694506000","value":{"rankName":"{rankName}","userRank":"Author rank {rankName}"},"localOverride":false},"CachedAsset:text:en_US-components/messages/MessageTime-1741694506000":{"__typename":"CachedAsset","id":"text:en_US-components/messages/MessageTime-1741694506000","value":{"postTime":"Published: {time}","lastPublishTime":"Last Update: {time}","conversation.lastPostingActivityTime":"Last posting activity time: {time}","conversation.lastPostTime":"Last post time: {time}","moderationData.rejectTime":"Rejected time: {time}"},"localOverride":false},"CachedAsset:text:en_US-components/messages/MessageSolvedBadge-1741694506000":{"__typename":"CachedAsset","id":"text:en_US-components/messages/MessageSolvedBadge-1741694506000","value":{"solved":"Solved"},"localOverride":false},"CachedAsset:text:en_US-components/messages/MessageSubject-1741694506000":{"__typename":"CachedAsset","id":"text:en_US-components/messages/MessageSubject-1741694506000","value":{"noSubject":"(no subject)"},"localOverride":false},"CachedAsset:text:en_US-components/messages/MessageBody-1741694506000":{"__typename":"CachedAsset","id":"text:en_US-components/messages/MessageBody-1741694506000","value":{"showMessageBody":"Show More","mentionsErrorTitle":"{mentionsType, select, board {Board} user {User} message {Message} other {}} No Longer Available","mentionsErrorMessage":"The {mentionsType} you are trying to view has been removed from the community.","videoProcessing":"Video is being processed. 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