Small 5th wheel pin weight?

marquette wrote:
I think the salesman was saying is that a short 5th wheel puts most of it's weight over the wheels and dis-proportionally on the pin compared to a longer 5th wheel. sue-t's figures show that isn't true but Komfort's figures show it is true. The conundrum of the rv world and flexible figures. I think I'll trust sue-t and the 20% rule.

2009 Cougar specs(unloaded)

245RKS (26ft) 6582/1075 = 16.3%
276RLS (29ft) 7220/1380 = 19.1%
292RKS (33ft) 8441/1660 = 19.7%

kaydeejay wrote:

BFL13 wrote:
"Payload" is not the same as "Cargo" with Chevs, at least in 2003.

"Cargo" is with full fuel but maybe not "Payload". My truck GCWR is 9,200 and the CWR and ("T" on the label) is 2,770 (what is allowed in the box) It is a five pax for 150 each for 750 so "Payload" is 750 + 2770 = 3,520 which would be on the stickers that came out a few years later for "cargo and passengers" limit.

However the 2003 brochure says its "Payload" is 3,643.

So maybe the 3643-3520 = 123 is gasoline, but 128 litres must weigh at least twice that.

So it is not altogether clear.

Is that five passengers PLUS driver, or 5 occupants total? If the latter, there is the rest of your fuel.
Also, that "brochure" weight is a typical weight for 2500HDs, not necessarily the exact number for your truck.

This is directly from the NHTSA document. There is no reference to the weight of fuel in the calculation. Waste of time using the weight of fuel.

Steps for Determining Correct Load Limit

1) Locate the statement "The combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed XXX kg or XXX pounds" on your vehicle?s placard.
2) Determine the combined weight of the driver and passengers that will be riding in your vehicle.
3) Subtract the combined weight of the driver and passengers from XXX kilograms or XXX pounds.
4) The resulting figure equals the available amount of cargo and luggage load capacity.?For example, if the "XXX" amount equals 1400 lbs. and there will be five - 150 lb passengers in your vehicle, the amount of available cargo and luggage load capacity is 650 lbs. (1400 - 750 (5 x 150) = 650 lbs.)
5) Determine the combined weight of luggage and cargo being loaded on the vehicle.?That weight may not safely exceed the available cargo and luggage load capacity calculated in Step 4.
6) If your vehicle will be towing a trailer, load from your trailer will be transferred to your vehicle.? Consult this manual to determine how this may reduce the available cargo and luggage load capacity of your vehicle."

sue-t Love that 17 footer! We have looked all over the web trying to find a 17-19 ft 5'er and the only ones we find are in the mountain country. Oregon, Colorado and BC. Hence the questions about a 22 ft because they are really common and cheap. Since your pin weight shifts from 15-20% as you load the trailer is most of your cargo in the front of the trailer? The wheels couldn't get any more centered than on your trailer.

I think the salesman was saying is that a short 5th wheel puts most of it's weight over the wheels and dis-proportionally on the pin compared to a longer 5th wheel. sue-t's figures show that isn't true but Komfort's figures show it is true. The conundrum of the rv world and flexible figures. I think I'll trust sue-t and the 20% rule.

kaydeejay wrote:

BFL13 wrote:
"Payload" is not the same as "Cargo" with Chevs, at least in 2003.

"Cargo" is with full fuel but maybe not "Payload". My truck GCWR is 9,200 and the CWR and ("T" on the label) is 2,770 (what is allowed in the box) It is a five pax for 150 each for 750 so "Payload" is 750 + 2770 = 3,520 which would be on the stickers that came out a few years later for "cargo and passengers" limit.

However the 2003 brochure says its "Payload" is 3,643.

So maybe the 3643-3520 = 123 is gasoline, but 128 litres must weigh at least twice that.

So it is not altogether clear.

Is that five passengers PLUS driver, or 5 occupants total? If the latter, there is the rest of your fuel.
Also, that "brochure" weight is a typical weight for 2500HDs, not necessarily the exact number for your truck.

Sorry, I fixed that from the GCWR to GVWR at 9200. The truck "seats" 5 people in cab including driver, but the brochure has "seating" standard/optional 6/5, so your eagle eye on that may be the difference in payload there.

The brochure 3,643 is for 2500HD ext cab 2wd gas 8ft box seating 6/5

I think that still makes payload include a full tank of gas. ISTR that "with full tank" definition is in the driver's manual, but I don't have that handy.

We had a 17.5' fifth wheel.

The documents said gross dry weight for the fifth wheel was 3,450 pounds and hitch dry weight of 540 lbs.

In the real world, ready for camping, the fifth wheel weighed 4,500 lbs and the pin weight was 880 lbs.

It had tandem axles

BFL13 wrote:
"Payload" is not the same as "Cargo" with Chevs, at least in 2003.

"Cargo" is with full fuel but maybe not "Payload". My truck GCWR is 9,200 and the CWR and ("T" on the label) is 2,770 (what is allowed in the box) It is a five pax for 150 each for 750 so "Payload" is 750 + 2770 = 3,520 which would be on the stickers that came out a few years later for "cargo and passengers" limit.

However the 2003 brochure says its "Payload" is 3,643.

So maybe the 3643-3520 = 123 is gasoline, but 128 litres must weigh at least twice that.

So it is not altogether clear.

Is that five passengers PLUS driver, or 5 occupants total? If the latter, there is the rest of your fuel.
Also, that "brochure" weight is a typical weight for 2500HDs, not necessarily the exact number for your truck.

kaydeejay wrote:

spud1957 wrote:
If it helps, fuel is not considered "cargo capacity" stated on the sticker. The cargo capacity is calculated based on a full tank of fuel.

Not when I was responsible for those labels it wasn't.
The Payload capacity IS the GVWR of the truck minus the empty weight - period.
(It does include all other liquids, but not fuel)

"Payload" is not the same as "Cargo" with Chevs, at least in 2003.

"Cargo" is with full fuel but maybe not "Payload". My truck GVWR is 9,200 and the CWR and ("T" on the label) is 2,770 (what is allowed in the box) It is a five pax for 150 each for 750 so "Payload" is 750 + 2770 = 3,520 which would be on the stickers that came out a few years later for "cargo and passengers" limit.

However the 2003 brochure says its "Payload" is 3,643.

So maybe the 3643-3520 = 123 is gasoline, but 128 litres must weigh at least twice that.

So it is not altogether clear.

spud1957 wrote:
If it helps, fuel is not considered "cargo capacity" stated on the sticker. The cargo capacity is calculated based on a full tank of fuel.

Not when I was responsible for those labels it wasn't.
The Payload capacity IS the GVWR of the truck minus the empty weight - period.
(It does include all other liquids, but not fuel)

It may be correct that shorter trailers have less percentage of pin wt. It is true for the 2003 Komfort line for which I have the numbers.

Using unloaded wts:

22ft- is 5,546 and 602 = 10.8%
24ft- is 6,772 and 999 = 14.8%
26ft- is 7,706 and 1,415= 18.4%
29ft- is 10,206 and 2,676= 26.2%

You may have a different percentage of pin weight loaded vs unloaded depending on where the load goes--forwards, over the wheels, or behind the trailer wheels.

As loaded on the scales our 26er comes out as 9,800 and 1,900 for 19.4% vs the unloaded spec 18.4% because most of the cargo goes forward in the basement cargo bay and under the bed up front.