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humblerb's avatar
humblerb
Explorer
Nov 03, 2021

Upgrade from 2500 to 3500 Question

Currently towing a Grand Design Reflection with a RAM 2500.
My truck is a HEMI and the truck is within specs for towing the 5th.
We are getting ready to start spreading our wings and take some long trips in order to see the country.
I recently retired and my TV is no longer a daily driver.
I want to upgrade from my 2018 2500 to a similar 3500.
Have been looking at used vehicles for a few months now - they are scarce.
I had about talked myself in to my first diesel.
Today, I see a truck that has become available that is identical to my 2500 HEMI, except in 3500. It is SRW. It has almost 6,000# cargo capacity. Basically, exactly what I was looking for when I first started looking, before I started considering diesels.
Knowing that I am currently towing with a HEMI, can anyone convince me that I need to zero in on a diesel and forget the HEMI?

37 Replies

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  • larry_barnhart's avatar
    larry_barnhart
    Explorer
    Nov 11, 2021
    We like buying new and have done that for years. Never needed a 4x4 for our towing style. Plus never had warranty issues to even break out even. Always lost money every time.

    chevman
  • Splashers3's avatar
    Splashers3
    Explorer
    Nov 09, 2021
    I totally agree with SUMRX4's statement about never saying I wish I had more power with my Diesel.
  • klr650goldwing's avatar
    klr650goldwing
    Explorer
    Nov 09, 2021
    When the trailer weight gets up around 12-13,000 lbs. it is time for a diesel IMO. Also, at that weight a DRW is so much better than SRW it is amazing and so very much more pleasant to tow.
  • SUMRX4's avatar
    SUMRX4
    Explorer
    Nov 05, 2021
    With the absurd pricing of used truck these days I would just buy new. That's what I did. With comparable models I would have saved 5K or less to get something a couple years old with 50K miles or more. Plus new gives you better interest rate and more warranty.

    Never thought I would see the day when I actually told someone to buy new over used. :E

    Everyone has their opinion on gas vs diesel and the pros and cons can be argued for days. But one thing if for certain...if you buy a diesel you will never utter the phrase "man I wish this thing had a little more power"
  • MFL's avatar
    MFL
    Nomad II
    Nov 04, 2021
    Good plan, a 3500. Just sayin Gm has upped the game, with their new models, including added GVWR of 3/4 at 11,300. :)

    For the OP...just get the diesel 3500, if you want to upgrade!

    Jerry
  • laknox's avatar
    laknox
    Nomad
    Nov 04, 2021
    If you believe that, I've got some nice beachfront property for you in Gila Bend. :-) She about freaked when our first tags came due for the KZ, at nearly $800/yr! 'Sides, I'm going for a 3500 as we also have a 30' GN we use, so want the extra payload.

    Lyle
  • MFL's avatar
    MFL
    Nomad II
    Nov 04, 2021
    Lyle...just go get the new truck!! A 20 year newer model will be great experience, in ride, power, quiet, what's not to like?? Money a non-issue!! With inflation, a $1,000 a couple yrs, for registration, is nothing. The new GM diesels are at the top of heap now too! The GM HD 2,500 has a big payload, due to increased GVWR.

    Tell your lovely bride, it's an early Xmas present for both of you!

    Jerry
  • laknox's avatar
    laknox
    Nomad
    Nov 04, 2021
    After buying my '02 D'max in '04, and towing with it, I swore that I'd never have another truck that wasn't 4x4 and diesel. My only issue right now is do I do a body off resto of the '02 and covert it to an LBZ or bite the bullet and get a new, and probably my last, truck? Cost would be about the same, but my tags would only be about $50/year. A new truck here in AZ would be almost $1k/year for the first couple years. All the horror stories I hear about the DEF systems crashing after warranty, and the $5-10k repair bills, scare the bejesus out of me!

    Lyle
  • Cummins12V98's avatar
    Cummins12V98
    Explorer III
    Nov 04, 2021
    goducks10 wrote:
    Went from a 2012 2500 Cummins to a 2018 2500 Hemi with 4.10 gears and then back to a 2019 3500 Cummins. I had the 6sp version in the Hemi 2500. Same HP/TQ though. I went on a 3,000 mile 28 day trip towing a 9600 lb TT from Oregon up through WA, ID, MT, WY, UT, NV, CA and back to Oregon. I hit 8432' going over the Teton Pass. I was in 1st gear at 4800 rpms for what seem like an eternity. Coming down the pass I got the Ram brakes hot as I rounded a corner and saw a road construction stop sign. I'm pretty diligent about braking and that was far from my 1st towing experience so I was being as cautious as possible but but the road conditions overwhelmed the truck and TT. Here's where the exhaust brake comes into play. That would've been a delight to have an EB descending that pass. I could've spent a little more time on the scenery vs working the brakes.

    Averaged around 8.5 mpg's the whole trip. Worst part was when out in the boonies where fuel was an uncertainty I had to gas up more often as I didn't want to sweat the next gas fill up.

    That trip was the 2nd year I owned the Hemi. I previously towed am almost identical size trailer (Fox Mountain 5th wheel) weighing around 9200 lbs. Towed mostly in the PNW and it did just okay. Biggest issue is the fuel mileage. Some of the places we go to I can't make it there and back on a tank of gas.

    Needless to say after that long 3,000 mile trip up in higher elevations where you lose 3% HP/TQ per 1,000' of el, I traded it in on the 2019 3500 CTD.
    I now get on average 11.5-12.0 mpg's. On the hwy at 70 I get 20 mph. Plus I can now make it there and back on a full tank which also means means no searching for diesel out in the boonies. I figure I've picked up another 90 miles per tank. The savings I get in diesel pays for the $$$ oil/filter changes since I tow about 5,000 miles a year and diesel and gas are about the same price where I live.

    I don't care how good the new Ram Hemi 8sp is in a 2500-3500 it will never make up for the power, braking and mpg's of a diesel.
    I'd go 3500 diesel in any brand if doing long trips towing a 5th wheel where you are in the mountains or just in the higher elevations for extended periods. Even at 4,000' like some high plateaus you loose 12% of power.On a Hemi thats 50 HP.

    The last leg of our long trip we were at the 4,000' range for a long days worth of driving. When you lose power you need to push the gas pedal further down and means sucking more gas. With a diesel the turbo makes up for all that.
    YMMV.


    GREAT POST!!!

    How about now you don’t have to listen to the gasser yelling at you on every grade.

    Even with my combined load of 35K towing West Coast my truck and 5er’s brakes are always cool at the bottom of those several mile long 6% grades. We can also carry on a conversation climbing those same long grades.

    Simply a relaxing towing experience that I am never worn out even after a 10 hour day.
  • Cummins12V98's avatar
    Cummins12V98
    Explorer III
    Nov 04, 2021
    rhagfo wrote:
    BurbMan wrote:
    My 2015 Ram 6.7 Cummins diesel crew cab long box SRW has a net payload of 4300. To get to the 6k you need a dually.

    Truck weighs about 8000 lbs empty with a GVWR of 12,300.

    It's a moot point now, that truck will be sold by tomorrow anyway.... :(


    Well OP was speaking of 3500 SRW HEMI, if tradesman and regular cab LB might close to 6,000# payload. Gas engine gets close to 1,000# more payload than a diesel.
    The diesel can pull a lot more!


    This payload topic is a joke. The weight of both engines are mostly on the front axle. All that matters is the actual rear axle weight of them. So take their unloaded rear axle weight and subtract from their RAWR. This method is used best for 5er application as virtually all the pin weight goes to the rear axle.

    Campers are a different animal.

About Fifth Wheel Group

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My truck is a HEMI and the truck is within specs for towing the 5th.
We are getting ready to start spreading our wings and take some long trips in order to see the country.
I recently retired and my TV is no longer a daily driver.
I want to upgrade from my 2018 2500 to a similar 3500.
Have been looking at used vehicles for a few months now - they are scarce.
I had about talked myself in to my first diesel.
Today, I see a truck that has become available that is identical to my 2500 HEMI, except in 3500. It is SRW. It has almost 6,000# cargo capacity. Basically, exactly what I was looking for when I first started looking, before I started considering diesels.
Knowing that I am currently towing with a HEMI, can anyone convince me that I need to zero in on a diesel and forget the HEMI?","body@stringLength":"892","rawBody":"Currently towing a Grand Design Reflection with a RAM 2500.
My truck is a HEMI and the truck is within specs for towing the 5th.
We are getting ready to start spreading our wings and take some long trips in order to see the country.
I recently retired and my TV is no longer a daily driver.
I want to upgrade from my 2018 2500 to a similar 3500.
Have been looking at used vehicles for a few months now - they are scarce.
I had about talked myself in to my first diesel.
Today, I see a truck that has become available that is identical to my 2500 HEMI, except in 3500. It is SRW. It has almost 6,000# cargo capacity. Basically, exactly what I was looking for when I first started looking, before I started considering diesels.
Knowing that I am currently towing with a HEMI, can anyone convince me that I need to zero in on a diesel and forget the HEMI?","kudosSumWeight":0,"postTime":"2021-11-02T18:08:34.000-07:00","images":{"__typename":"AssociatedImageConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"tags":{"__typename":"TagConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"timeToRead":1,"currentRevision":{"__ref":"Revision:revision:3572954_1"},"latestVersion":null,"metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":7069},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","canonicalUrl":null,"seoTitle":null,"seoDescription":null,"isEscalated":null,"placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"messagePolicies":{"__typename":"MessagePolicies","canModerateSpamMessage":{"__typename":"PolicyResult","failureReason":{"__typename":"FailureReason","message":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","key":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","args":[]}}},"archivalData":null,"searchSnippet":"Currently towing a Grand Design Reflection with a RAM 2500. My truck is a HEMI and the truck is within specs for towing the 5th. We are getting ready to start spreading our wings and take some 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{\n /* faking it; should be 33.33333333% */\n width: 25%;\n }\n\n .col-lg-8 {\n /* faking it; should be 66.66666667% */\n width: 75%;\n }\n\n .col-lg-10 {\n width: 83.33333333%;\n }\n\n .col-lg-12 {\n width: 100%;\n }\n}\n\n.pull-left {\n float: left;\n width: 100%;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 767px) {\n float: none;\n width: auto;\n }\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n float: left;\n }\n}\n\n.pad-bottom-20 {\n padding-bottom: $theme-space-base;\n}\n\n.pad-top-20 {\n padding-top: $theme-space-base;\n}\n\n.pad-top-30 {\n padding-top: calc($bootstrap-padding * 2);\n}\n\n.pad-top-40 {\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n padding-top: $theme-space-large;\n }\n}\n\n.margin-left-20 {\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n margin-left: $theme-space-base;\n }\n}\n\n.margin-top-20 {\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n margin-top: $theme-space-base;\n }\n}\n\n.text-center {\n text-align: center;\n}\n\n.text-right {\n text-align: right;\n}\n\n.text-smaller,\n.text-small {\n font-size: $theme-type-size-xsmall;\n}\n\n.text-large {\n font-size: $theme-type-size-xlarge;\n}\n\n.footer-contact {\n p {\n display: flex;\n flex-direction: row;\n justify-content: center;\n align-items: center;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n display: block;\n }\n\n .text-small {\n @media screen and (max-width: 991px) {\n font-size: $theme-type-size-base;\n }\n }\n }\n\n .icon-gs-app {\n margin-right: $theme-space-base;\n max-width: 38px;\n padding-right: 2px;\n padding-top: 2px;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n margin-left: 140px;\n margin-right: 0;\n }\n }\n\n .gsi-icon-phone {\n margin-bottom: -2px;\n margin-right: $theme-space-small;\n max-height: 20px;\n width: 20px;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n margin-right: 0;\n }\n }\n}\n\n.footer-link {\n a,\n button {\n color: $goodsam-gray-footer;\n padding: 0 12px 0 $theme-space-small;\n }\n\n li:last-child a {\n padding-right: 0;\n }\n}\n\n.footer-top-links {\n padding-left: 0;\n list-style: none;\n display: flex;\n flex-direction: row;\n justify-content: center;\n align-items: center;\n flex-wrap: wrap;\n margin-bottom: $theme-space-small;\n font-size: 16px;\n\n @media screen and (max-width: 480px) {\n flex-direction: column;\n }\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n display: block;\n }\n\n li {\n margin-bottom: $theme-space-base;\n padding: 0 $theme-space-base;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n padding: 0;\n }\n }\n}\n\n.footer-top {\n border-bottom: 2px solid $goodsam-gray-400;\n display: block;\n margin: auto;\n padding-top: $theme-space-small;\n text-align: center;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n text-align: left;\n }\n\n .footer-logo {\n max-height: 60px;\n max-width: 140px;\n padding: $theme-space-small;\n padding-left: 0;\n padding-top: 0;\n }\n\n .footer-list {\n display: flex;\n justify-content: center;\n align-items: center;\n list-style: none;\n margin-bottom: 0;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n display: block;\n float: right;\n }\n\n li {\n display: inline-block;\n padding: $theme-space-small $theme-space-xsmall;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n border-right: 1px solid $goodsam-gray-700;\n float: left;\n padding: 0;\n\n &:last-child {\n border-right: 0;\n }\n }\n\n a,\n button {\n font-size: $theme-type-size-xsmall;\n text-transform: uppercase;\n\n @media screen and (max-width: 768px) {\n display: block;\n padding: $theme-space-small;\n }\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n font-size: $theme-type-size-small;\n }\n }\n\n .dropup {\n background-clip: padding-box;\n border: none;\n font-size: $theme-type-size-small;\n list-style: none;\n padding-left: 5px;\n position: relative;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n float: left;\n }\n\n &:hover {\n .dropdown-menu {\n display: block;\n }\n }\n }\n\n .footer-dropup-toggle {\n background: none;\n border: 0;\n padding: 0;\n\n .fa-angle-up {\n /* @include li-icon ($fa-var-angle-up, $pseudo: before, $size: $theme-type-size-base, $color: $goodsam-gray-footer);\n padding-left: $theme-space-xsmall;\n padding-right: $theme-space-xsmall; */\n }\n }\n\n .dropdown-menu {\n background-color: #fff;\n border-radius: 4px;\n bottom: 100%;\n margin: 2px 0 0;\n min-width: 160px;\n padding: $theme-space-xsmall 0;\n position: absolute;\n right: 0;\n\n li {\n border-right: 0;\n float: none;\n text-align: left;\n\n @media screen and (max-width: 768px) {\n display: block;\n }\n\n a {\n color: $goodsam-gray;\n display: block;\n text-transform: none;\n\n &:hover {\n outline: 5px auto -webkit-focus-ring-color;\n outline-offset: -2px;\n }\n }\n }\n }\n }\n }\n}\n\n.footer-terms {\n display: flex;\n flex-direction: column;\n justify-content: center;\n align-items: center;\n padding: $theme-space-small 0;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n display: block;\n padding: 0;\n }\n\n > .row {\n padding-bottom: $theme-space-small;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n padding-bottom: $theme-space-base;\n }\n\n &.footer-terms-order-1 {\n order: 1;\n }\n\n &.footer-terms-order-2 {\n order: 2;\n }\n }\n}\n\n.footer-bottom {\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n padding-top: $theme-space-small;\n }\n\n .footer-bottom-list-center {\n display: flex;\n flex-direction: row;\n justify-content: center;\n align-items: center;\n flex-wrap: wrap;\n float: none;\n margin: 0 auto;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n display: block;\n }\n\n li {\n display: inline;\n padding: 0 $theme-space-base;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n border-right: 1px solid $goodsam-gray-700;\n padding: 0;\n\n &:first-child a {\n padding-left: 0;\n }\n\n &:last-child {\n border-right: 0;\n\n a {\n padding-right: 0;\n }\n }\n }\n\n a {\n display: inline-block;\n font-size: $theme-type-size-small;\n padding: $theme-space-small;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n display: inline;\n font-size: $theme-type-size-xsmall;\n padding: 0 12px 0 $theme-space-small;\n }\n }\n }\n }\n}\n\n.copyright {\n color: $goodsam-gray-footer;\n font-size: $theme-type-size-base;\n margin-bottom: 0;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n margin-bottom: $theme-space-small;\n }\n}\n\n#gsFooterSocial,\n.gsFooterSocial {\n background: $goodsam-gray-200;\n padding: 0 calc($theme-space-small + $theme-space-xsmall);\n .footerSocialItems,\n #footerSocialItems {\n text-align: center;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 767px) {\n text-align: left;\n }\n }\n\n .footerSocialItems ul,\n #footerSocialItems ul {\n list-style-type: none;\n margin: auto;\n padding-left: 0;\n\n li {\n display: inline;\n margin: 0 $theme-space-small;\n }\n }\n}\n","texts":{"custom.footer.col01.text.01":"Home","custom.footer.col01.url.01":"https://www.goodsam.com/","custom.footer.col01.text.02":"About Us","custom.footer.col01.url.02":"https://www.goodsam.com/about/","custom.footer.col01.text.03":"Contact Us","custom.footer.col01.url.03":"https://www.goodsam.com/contact","custom.footer.col01.text.04":"FAQ","custom.footer.col01.url.04":"https://www.goodsam.com/faq/","custom.footer.col01.text.05":"Site Map","custom.footer.col01.url.05":"https://www.goodsam.com/site-map.aspx","custom.footer.col02.text.01":"Code of Conduct","custom.footer.col02.url.01":"https://www.goodsam.com/code-of-conduct.aspx","custom.footer.col02.text.02":"Affiliate Program","custom.footer.col02.url.02":"https://www.goodsam.com/affiliate/","custom.footer.col02.text.03":"Become a Good Sam Campground","custom.footer.col02.url.03":"https://www.goodsamnetwork.com/","custom.footer.col02.text.04":"Good Sam Rewards Visa","custom.footer.col02.url.04":"https://www.goodsam.com/creditcard/","custom.footer.col02.text.05":"About Marcus Lemonis","custom.footer.col02.url.05":"https://www.goodsam.com/about-marcus-lemonis/","custom.footer.col03.text.01":"RV Sales","custom.footer.col03.url.01":"https://rv.campingworld.com/","custom.footer.col03.text.02":"RV Gear","custom.footer.col03.url.02":"https://www.campingworld.com/shop/","custom.footer.col03.text.03":"RV Maintenance & Repair","custom.footer.col03.url.03":"https://rv.campingworld.com/service/","custom.footer.col03.text.04":"Good Sam Membership & Services","custom.footer.col03.url.04":"https://www.goodsam.com/","custom.footer.col03.text.05":"Campground Solutions","custom.footer.col03.url.05":"https://campgroundsolutions.goodsam.com/","custom.footer.col04.text.01":"Helpful Articles and Tips","custom.footer.col04.url.01":"https://www.goodsam.com/article","custom.footer.col05.text.01":"Good Sam Apps","custom.footer.col05.url.01":"https://www.goodsam.com/rv-camping-apps/","custom.footer.col05.text.02":"Take Good Sam apps on your next RV Trip!","custom.footer.col05.url.02":"https://www.goodsam.com/rv-camping-apps/","custom.footer.col06.text.01":"Customer Service Phone Number:","custom.footer.col06.phone.number":"866-205-7451","custom.footer.col06.text.02":"Club contact number 866-205-7451","custom.footer.col06.url.02":"tel:866-205-7451","custom.footer.row01.logo.text":"Good Sam Home","custom.footer.row01.text.01":"Blog","custom.footer.row01.url.01":"http://blog.goodsam.com/","custom.footer.row01.text.02":"Careers","custom.footer.row01.url.02":"https://www.campingworldcareers.com/","custom.footer.row01.text.03":"Contact Us","custom.footer.row01.text.toggle":"Click to expand","custom.footer.row01.text.04":"Good Sam","custom.footer.row01.url.04":"https://www.goodsam.com/contact/","custom.footer.row01.text.05":"Camping World","custom.footer.row01.url.05":"https://www.campingworld.com/contact/","custom.footer.row01.text.06":"RV Sales","custom.footer.row01.url.06":"https://rv.campingworld.com/contact","custom.footer.row02.text.01":"Privacy Policy","custom.footer.row02.url.01":"https://www.goodsam.com/privacy-policy.aspx","custom.footer.row02.text.02":"California Privacy Rights","custom.footer.row02.url.02":"https://www.goodsam.com/privacy-policy.aspx#calinevada","custom.footer.row02.text.03":"Investor Relations","custom.footer.row02.url.03":"http://investor.campingworld.com","custom.footer.row02.text.04":"Terms of Use","custom.footer.row02.url.04":"https://www.goodsam.com/terms.aspx","custom.footer.row02.text.05":"Accessibility Commitment","custom.footer.row02.url.05":"https://www.goodsam.com/accessibility-commitment.aspx","custom.footer.row02.text.06":"Team Member Assistance","custom.footer.row02.url.06":"https://www.goodsam.com/helping-hand","custom.footer.social.facebook.text":"Facebook","custom.footer.social.facebook.url":"https://www.facebook.com/GoodSam","custom.footer.social.twitter.text":"Twitter","custom.footer.social.twitter.url":"https://twitter.com/GoodSam","custom.footer.social.youtube.text":"YouTube","custom.footer.social.youtube.url":"https://www.youtube.com/user/goodsamrvers","custom.footer.social.instagram.text":"Instagram","custom.footer.social.instagram.url":"https://www.instagram.com/goodsam/?hl=en","custom.footer.social.pinterest.text":"Pinterest","custom.footer.social.pinterest.url":"https://www.pinterest.com/goodsam/","custom-community-footer-copyright.text":"© {0} Good Sam Enterprises, LLC. All rights reserved."},"defaults":{"config":{"applicablePages":[],"description":"","fetchedContent":null,"__typename":"ComponentConfiguration"},"props":[],"__typename":"ComponentProperties"},"components":[{"id":"custom.widget.CustomFooter","form":null,"config":null,"props":[],"__typename":"Component"}],"grouping":"CUSTOM","__typename":"ComponentTemplate"},"properties":{"config":{"applicablePages":[],"description":"","fetchedContent":null,"__typename":"ComponentConfiguration"},"props":[],"__typename":"ComponentProperties"},"form":null,"__typename":"Component","localOverride":false},"globalCss":{"css":".custom_widget_CustomFooter_footer-wrapper_hp49n_21 {\n background: #474442;\n\n a {\n color: #dfdfdf;\n font-weight: 100;\n\n &:focus,\n &:hover {\n color: #dfdfdf;\n }\n }\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_sr-only_hp49n_34 {\n position: absolute;\n width: 0.0625rem;\n height: 0.0625rem;\n margin: -0.0625rem;\n padding: 0;\n overflow: hidden;\n clip: rect(0, 0, 0, 0);\n border: 0;\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_footer_hp49n_21 {\n line-height: 1.25rem;\n /* margin-left: auto;\n\tmargin-right: auto;\n\tpadding-left: $bootstrap-padding;\n\tpadding-right: $bootstrap-padding; */\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_container_hp49n_52 {\n margin-left: auto;\n margin-right: auto;\n max-width: 73.125rem;\n padding-left: 0.9375rem;\n padding-right: 0.9375rem;\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_row_hp49n_60 {\n /* HOTFIX - PSDS-32115 - Remove negative margins to fix mobile display */\n\n &::after {\n clear: both;\n }\n\n &::after,\n &::before {\n content: ' ';\n display: table;\n }\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_col_hp49n_74 {\n float: left;\n min-height: 0.0625rem;\n padding-left: 0.9375rem;\n padding-right: 0.9375rem;\n position: relative;\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-xs-10_hp49n_82,\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-sm-10_hp49n_83 {\n width: 83.33333333%;\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-xs-12_hp49n_87,\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-sm-4_hp49n_88,\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-sm-12_hp49n_89,\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-md-2_hp49n_90,\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-md-8_hp49n_91,\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-md-10_hp49n_92,\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-md-12_hp49n_93,\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-lg-2_hp49n_94,\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-lg-8_hp49n_95,\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-lg-12_hp49n_96 {\n width: 100%;\n}\n@media screen and (min-width: 767px) {\n .custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-md-2_hp49n_90 {\n width: 16.66666667%;\n }\n\n .custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-md-8_hp49n_91 {\n width: 66.66666667%;\n }\n\n .custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-md-10_hp49n_92 {\n width: 83.33333333%;\n }\n\n .custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-md-12_hp49n_93 {\n width: 100%;\n }\n}\n@media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n .custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-lg-2_hp49n_94 {\n width: 16.66666667%;\n }\n\n .custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-lg-4_hp49n_123 {\n /* faking it; should be 33.33333333% */\n width: 25%;\n }\n\n .custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-lg-8_hp49n_95 {\n /* faking it; should be 66.66666667% */\n width: 75%;\n }\n\n .custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-lg-10_hp49n_133 {\n width: 83.33333333%;\n }\n\n .custom_widget_CustomFooter_col-lg-12_hp49n_96 {\n width: 100%;\n }\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_pull-left_hp49n_142 {\n float: left;\n width: 100%;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 767px) {\n float: none;\n width: auto;\n }\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n float: left;\n }\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_pad-bottom-20_hp49n_156 {\n padding-bottom: 1.25rem;\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_pad-top-20_hp49n_160 {\n padding-top: 1.25rem;\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_pad-top-30_hp49n_164 {\n padding-top: calc(0.9375rem * 2);\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_pad-top-40_hp49n_168 {\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n padding-top: 2.5rem;\n }\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_margin-left-20_hp49n_174 {\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n margin-left: 1.25rem;\n }\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_margin-top-20_hp49n_180 {\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n margin-top: 1.25rem;\n }\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_text-center_hp49n_186 {\n text-align: center;\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_text-right_hp49n_190 {\n text-align: right;\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_text-smaller_hp49n_194,\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_text-small_hp49n_194 {\n font-size: 0.75rem;\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_text-large_hp49n_199 {\n font-size: 1.25rem;\n}\n.custom_widget_CustomFooter_footer-contact_hp49n_203 {\n p {\n display: flex;\n flex-direction: row;\n justify-content: center;\n align-items: center;\n\n @media screen and (min-width: 992px) {\n display: block;\n }\n\n .custom_widget_CustomFooter_text-small_hp49n_194 {\n @media screen and (max-width: 991px) {\n font-size: 1rem;\n }\n }\n }\n\n 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Never needed a 4x4 for our towing style. Plus never had warranty issues to even break out even. Always lost money every time.

chevman","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"187","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2021-11-10T19:50:18.000-08:00","lastPublishTime":"2021-11-10T19:50:18.000-08:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":517},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:FifthWheel/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:FifthWheelforum-board/message:3572954/message:3572991","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"User:user:89784":{"__typename":"User","id":"user:89784","uid":89784,"login":"Splashers3","biography":null,"registrationData":{"__typename":"RegistrationData","status":null,"registrationTime":"2008-06-12T07:16:49.000-07:00"},"deleted":false,"email":"","avatar":{"__typename":"UserAvatar","url":"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/m_assets/avatars/default/avatar-1.svg?time=1737155183000"},"rank":{"__ref":"Rank:rank:42"},"entityType":"USER","eventPath":"community:feyqc97479/user:89784"},"ModerationData:moderation_data:3572990":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:3572990","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:3572990":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:89784"},"id":"message:3572990","revisionNum":1,"uid":3572990,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:FifthWheelforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:3572954"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:3572954"},"subject":"Re: Upgrade from 2500 to 3500 Question","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:3572990"},"body":"I totally agree with SUMRX4's statement about never saying I wish I had more power with my Diesel.","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"98","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2021-11-09T12:44:01.000-08:00","lastPublishTime":"2021-11-09T12:44:01.000-08:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":517},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:FifthWheel/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:FifthWheelforum-board/message:3572954/message:3572990","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"User:user:287":{"__typename":"User","id":"user:287","uid":287,"login":"klr650goldwing","biography":null,"registrationData":{"__typename":"RegistrationData","status":null,"registrationTime":"2010-01-20T08:25:12.000-08:00"},"deleted":false,"email":"","avatar":{"__typename":"UserAvatar","url":"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/m_assets/avatars/default/avatar-7.svg?time=1737155183000"},"rank":{"__ref":"Rank:rank:42"},"entityType":"USER","eventPath":"community:feyqc97479/user:287"},"ModerationData:moderation_data:3572989":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:3572989","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:3572989":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:287"},"id":"message:3572989","revisionNum":1,"uid":3572989,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:FifthWheelforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:3572954"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:3572954"},"subject":"Re: Upgrade from 2500 to 3500 Question","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:3572989"},"body":"When the trailer weight gets up around 12-13,000 lbs. it is time for a diesel IMO. Also, at that weight a DRW is so much better than SRW it is amazing and so very much more pleasant to tow.","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"189","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2021-11-08T21:09:15.000-08:00","lastPublishTime":"2021-11-08T21:09:15.000-08:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":517},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:FifthWheel/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:FifthWheelforum-board/message:3572954/message:3572989","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"User:user:373672":{"__typename":"User","id":"user:373672","uid":373672,"login":"SUMRX4","biography":null,"registrationData":{"__typename":"RegistrationData","status":null,"registrationTime":"2005-10-05T19:08:19.000-07:00"},"deleted":false,"email":"","avatar":{"__typename":"UserAvatar","url":"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/m_assets/avatars/default/avatar-7.svg?time=1737155183000"},"rank":{"__ref":"Rank:rank:42"},"entityType":"USER","eventPath":"community:feyqc97479/user:373672"},"ModerationData:moderation_data:3572988":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:3572988","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:3572988":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:373672"},"id":"message:3572988","revisionNum":1,"uid":3572988,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:FifthWheelforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:3572954"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:3572954"},"subject":"Re: Upgrade from 2500 to 3500 Question","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:3572988"},"body":"With the absurd pricing of used truck these days I would just buy new. That's what I did. With comparable models I would have saved 5K or less to get something a couple years old with 50K miles or more. Plus new gives you better interest rate and more warranty.

Never thought I would see the day when I actually told someone to buy new over used. :E

Everyone has their opinion on gas vs diesel and the pros and cons can be argued for days. But one thing if for certain...if you buy a diesel you will never utter the phrase \"man I wish this thing had a little more power\"","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2021-11-04T19:39:41.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2021-11-04T19:39:41.000-07:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":515},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:FifthWheel/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:FifthWheelforum-board/message:3572954/message:3572988","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"Rank:rank:38":{"__typename":"Rank","id":"rank:38","position":27,"name":"Nomad II","color":"333333","icon":null,"rankStyle":"TEXT"},"User:user:839":{"__typename":"User","id":"user:839","uid":839,"login":"MFL","biography":null,"registrationData":{"__typename":"RegistrationData","status":null,"registrationTime":"2012-11-28T16:31:49.000-08:00"},"deleted":false,"email":"","avatar":{"__typename":"UserAvatar","url":"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/m_assets/avatars/default/avatar-12.svg?time=1737155183000"},"rank":{"__ref":"Rank:rank:38"},"entityType":"USER","eventPath":"community:feyqc97479/user:839"},"ModerationData:moderation_data:3572987":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:3572987","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:3572987":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:839"},"id":"message:3572987","revisionNum":1,"uid":3572987,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:FifthWheelforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:3572954"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:3572954"},"subject":"Re: Upgrade from 2500 to 3500 Question","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:3572987"},"body":"Good plan, a 3500. Just sayin Gm has upped the game, with their new models, including added GVWR of 3/4 at 11,300. :)

For the OP...just get the diesel 3500, if you want to upgrade!

Jerry","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"193","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2021-11-04T11:08:54.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2021-11-04T11:08:54.000-07:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":515},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:FifthWheel/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:FifthWheelforum-board/message:3572954/message:3572987","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"Rank:rank:39":{"__typename":"Rank","id":"rank:39","position":29,"name":"Nomad","color":"333333","icon":null,"rankStyle":"TEXT"},"User:user:379469":{"__typename":"User","id":"user:379469","uid":379469,"login":"laknox","biography":null,"registrationData":{"__typename":"RegistrationData","status":null,"registrationTime":"2008-01-06T20:31:38.000-08:00"},"deleted":false,"email":"","avatar":{"__typename":"UserAvatar","url":"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/m_assets/avatars/default/avatar-4.svg?time=1737155183000"},"rank":{"__ref":"Rank:rank:39"},"entityType":"USER","eventPath":"community:feyqc97479/user:379469"},"ModerationData:moderation_data:3572986":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:3572986","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:3572986":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:379469"},"id":"message:3572986","revisionNum":1,"uid":3572986,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:FifthWheelforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:3572954"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:3572954"},"subject":"Re: Upgrade from 2500 to 3500 Question","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:3572986"},"body":"If you believe that, I've got some nice beachfront property for you in Gila Bend. :-) She about freaked when our first tags came due for the KZ, at nearly $800/yr! 'Sides, I'm going for a 3500 as we also have a 30' GN we use, so want the extra payload.

Lyle","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2021-11-04T09:36:08.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2021-11-04T09:36:08.000-07:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":515},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:FifthWheel/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:FifthWheelforum-board/message:3572954/message:3572986","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"ModerationData:moderation_data:3572985":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:3572985","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:3572985":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:839"},"id":"message:3572985","revisionNum":1,"uid":3572985,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:FifthWheelforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:3572954"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:3572954"},"subject":"Re: Upgrade from 2500 to 3500 Question","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:3572985"},"body":"Lyle...just go get the new truck!! A 20 year newer model will be great experience, in ride, power, quiet, what's not to like?? Money a non-issue!! With inflation, a $1,000 a couple yrs, for registration, is nothing. The new GM diesels are at the top of heap now too! The GM HD 2,500 has a big payload, due to increased GVWR.

Tell your lovely bride, it's an early Xmas present for both of you!

Jerry","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2021-11-04T08:57:48.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2021-11-04T08:57:48.000-07:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":515},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:FifthWheel/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:FifthWheelforum-board/message:3572954/message:3572985","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"ModerationData:moderation_data:3572984":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:3572984","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:3572984":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:379469"},"id":"message:3572984","revisionNum":1,"uid":3572984,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:FifthWheelforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:3572954"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:3572954"},"subject":"Re: Upgrade from 2500 to 3500 Question","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:3572984"},"body":"After buying my '02 D'max in '04, and towing with it, I swore that I'd never have another truck that wasn't 4x4 and diesel. My only issue right now is do I do a body off resto of the '02 and covert it to an LBZ or bite the bullet and get a new, and probably my last, truck? Cost would be about the same, but my tags would only be about $50/year. A new truck here in AZ would be almost $1k/year for the first couple years. All the horror stories I hear about the DEF systems crashing after warranty, and the $5-10k repair bills, scare the bejesus out of me!

Lyle","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2021-11-04T08:38:28.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2021-11-04T08:38:28.000-07:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":515},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:FifthWheel/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:FifthWheelforum-board/message:3572954/message:3572984","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"Rank:rank:40":{"__typename":"Rank","id":"rank:40","position":31,"name":"Explorer III","color":"333333","icon":null,"rankStyle":"TEXT"},"User:user:321363":{"__typename":"User","id":"user:321363","uid":321363,"login":"Cummins12V98","biography":null,"registrationData":{"__typename":"RegistrationData","status":null,"registrationTime":"2012-06-03T15:01:10.000-07:00"},"deleted":false,"email":"","avatar":{"__typename":"UserAvatar","url":"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/m_assets/avatars/default/avatar-10.svg?time=1737155183000"},"rank":{"__ref":"Rank:rank:40"},"entityType":"USER","eventPath":"community:feyqc97479/user:321363"},"ModerationData:moderation_data:3572983":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:3572983","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:3572983":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:321363"},"id":"message:3572983","revisionNum":1,"uid":3572983,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:FifthWheelforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:3572954"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:3572954"},"subject":"Re: Upgrade from 2500 to 3500 Question","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:3572983"},"body":"
goducks10 wrote:
Went from a 2012 2500 Cummins to a 2018 2500 Hemi with 4.10 gears and then back to a 2019 3500 Cummins. I had the 6sp version in the Hemi 2500. Same HP/TQ though. I went on a 3,000 mile 28 day trip towing a 9600 lb TT from Oregon up through WA, ID, MT, WY, UT, NV, CA and back to Oregon. I hit 8432' going over the Teton Pass. I was in 1st gear at 4800 rpms for what seem like an eternity. Coming down the pass I got the Ram brakes hot as I rounded a corner and saw a road construction stop sign. I'm pretty diligent about braking and that was far from my 1st towing experience so I was being as cautious as possible but but the road conditions overwhelmed the truck and TT. Here's where the exhaust brake comes into play. That would've been a delight to have an EB descending that pass. I could've spent a little more time on the scenery vs working the brakes.

Averaged around 8.5 mpg's the whole trip. Worst part was when out in the boonies where fuel was an uncertainty I had to gas up more often as I didn't want to sweat the next gas fill up.

That trip was the 2nd year I owned the Hemi. I previously towed am almost identical size trailer (Fox Mountain 5th wheel) weighing around 9200 lbs. Towed mostly in the PNW and it did just okay. Biggest issue is the fuel mileage. Some of the places we go to I can't make it there and back on a tank of gas.

Needless to say after that long 3,000 mile trip up in higher elevations where you lose 3% HP/TQ per 1,000' of el, I traded it in on the 2019 3500 CTD.
I now get on average 11.5-12.0 mpg's. On the hwy at 70 I get 20 mph. Plus I can now make it there and back on a full tank which also means means no searching for diesel out in the boonies. I figure I've picked up another 90 miles per tank. The savings I get in diesel pays for the $$$ oil/filter changes since I tow about 5,000 miles a year and diesel and gas are about the same price where I live.

I don't care how good the new Ram Hemi 8sp is in a 2500-3500 it will never make up for the power, braking and mpg's of a diesel.
I'd go 3500 diesel in any brand if doing long trips towing a 5th wheel where you are in the mountains or just in the higher elevations for extended periods. Even at 4,000' like some high plateaus you loose 12% of power.On a Hemi thats 50 HP.

The last leg of our long trip we were at the 4,000' range for a long days worth of driving. When you lose power you need to push the gas pedal further down and means sucking more gas. With a diesel the turbo makes up for all that.
YMMV.


GREAT POST!!!

How about now you don’t have to listen to the gasser yelling at you on every grade.

Even with my combined load of 35K towing West Coast my truck and 5er’s brakes are always cool at the bottom of those several mile long 6% grades. We can also carry on a conversation climbing those same long grades.

Simply a relaxing towing experience that I am never worn out even after a 10 hour day.","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2021-11-04T08:26:00.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2021-11-04T08:26:00.000-07:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":513},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:FifthWheel/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:FifthWheelforum-board/message:3572954/message:3572983","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"ModerationData:moderation_data:3572982":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:3572982","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:3572982":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:321363"},"id":"message:3572982","revisionNum":1,"uid":3572982,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:FifthWheelforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:3572954"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:3572954"},"subject":"Re: Upgrade from 2500 to 3500 Question","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:3572982"},"body":"
rhagfo wrote:
BurbMan wrote:
My 2015 Ram 6.7 Cummins diesel crew cab long box SRW has a net payload of 4300. To get to the 6k you need a dually.

Truck weighs about 8000 lbs empty with a GVWR of 12,300.

It's a moot point now, that truck will be sold by tomorrow anyway.... :(


Well OP was speaking of 3500 SRW HEMI, if tradesman and regular cab LB might close to 6,000# payload. Gas engine gets close to 1,000# more payload than a diesel.
The diesel can pull a lot more!


This payload topic is a joke. The weight of both engines are mostly on the front axle. All that matters is the actual rear axle weight of them. So take their unloaded rear axle weight and subtract from their RAWR. This method is used best for 5er application as virtually all the pin weight goes to the rear axle.

Campers are a different animal.","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2021-11-04T08:17:00.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2021-11-04T08:17:00.000-07:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":515},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:FifthWheel/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:FifthWheelforum-board/message:3572954/message:3572982","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"CachedAsset:text:en_US-components/community/Navbar-1741694506000":{"__typename":"CachedAsset","id":"text:en_US-components/community/Navbar-1741694506000","value":{"community":"Community 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