Forum Discussion

drillagent's avatar
drillagent
Explorer
Aug 10, 2014

We've gone and done it now... Update

WE HAVE A 5TH WHEEL!! Drove four hours one way today to pick up our new to us 2012 Keystone Montana 3750FL. I want to thank everyone here for their wisdom, advice, input, and even their questions which made our walkthrough/PDI run so smooth today. Based on three years of research and prep through this forum, I drove up today in a 2012 F250 diesel SRW with B&W Companion 3500 and Air Lift suspension air bags. In my hands I had two different PDI checklists and recommended equipment gleaned from this forum.

After running through the checklists, we found three issues that were quickly taken care of. Two of the five slide outs were not seating properly and the awning was moldy and smelled bad.

Prior to hooking up, I inflated the airbags to 15psi in anticipation of the pressure increasing as load was applied. To my amazement, the truck didn't even squat. The loaded pressure was 30psi which I went ahead and bumped up to 40psi. The truck and the trailer sit almost exactly level.

I opened the jaws of the B&W companion and followed the ground guide directions to hook up. I got the stop hand signal and noticed the technician was locking the hitch. I didn't even feel or hear the hitch hit the kingpin it was so smooth.

So, all hitched up, all tanks and water lines emptied, and ready to go, we drove off into a torrential downpour which started just as we left. Did I mention this was the first time I ever towed a 5th wheel? Serious pucker time.

I was so worried about the rear axle being over weight, our first stop was the CAT scales about three miles up the road. We weighed the truck by itself before we went to the dealership. So here are the weights. BTW, the truck GVWR is 10,000lbs. GCWR is 23,500lbs. RAWR is 6,100lbs. Trailer dry weight is 12,500. Trailer tires LR E 3420lbs for total of 13680.

Truck alone:
Steer Axle - 4,940lbs
Drive Axle - 3,420lbs
Gross Weight - 8,360lbs

Truck and Trailer:
Steer Axle - 4,860lbs
Drive Axle - 5,760lbs
Trailer Axle - 10,680lbs
Gross Weight - 21,300lbs

Truck Total Weight - 10,675lbs
Kingpin weight - 2,340lbs
Trailer Total Weight - 13,020lbs

The drive home was amazing. I never expected the ride to be so smooth. I never heard or felt any chucking from the hitch. There was some pulling back and a few waves as we went across rough bridges, but nothing like I've heard others on the forum talk about. I set the cruise control at 60mph and it stayed there the whole way. Even through the Arkansas hills. I watched the engine and transmission temps very carefully, and they never went above normal. Even on such a hot, humid day.

Bottom line, I love my truck, I love my setup, I love my trailer. Two years to retirement can't go quick enough. Full timing, here we come!

24 Replies

  • drillking's avatar
    drillking
    Explorer
    Aug 11, 2014
    Congrats Drillagent! We have full timed for four years now, it's a blast!
  • minnow's avatar
    minnow
    Explorer
    Aug 10, 2014
    bpounds wrote:
    minnow wrote:
    Congratulations on the new trailer. It is going to be a nice combo I'm sure.

    Regarding your rear axle, I assume your new trailer was pretty much empty when you took the weights above. So although the RA load looks good now, it is going to exceed the 6,100# rating when you get loaded up for full-timing. As I said above, that's okay because it is an F350 axle, but you need to check those rear tire/wheel ratings. That is a piece of info you left out above. You really don't want to exceed maximum load rating on a tire.


    ----We have our first ticket issued to the OP from the weight police...


    Either you have a problem with reading, or didn't even bother reading. Or maybe you think it is okay to exceed tire load ratings. Because that is the only advice I gave.


    I didn't reference your comment. I guess I'm not alone in the reading comprehension dog house.
  • noteven's avatar
    noteven
    Explorer III
    Aug 10, 2014
    drillagent you do realize in the World Of Pickup Truck B.S. GVWR's are carefully calculated as follows:

    GAWR front 5200lbs + GAWR Rear 6100lbs = GVWR 10000lbs
  • bpounds's avatar
    bpounds
    Nomad
    Aug 10, 2014
    Here is a PDF of the 2012 Super Duty specs. If you don't have it you can download it to your PC/phone for future reference.
    Ford 2012 SD Specs

    On page 77 you will see that your axle can be rated up to 6,200# on a F250. But we know it is actually the same axle as an F350 SRW, which can be rated up to 7,280#. Ford doesn't particularly want you to know it is the same axle, but it has been confirmed countless times using various methods. So since you've dealt with the springs issue with air bags, think of that axle in terms of 7,280.

    On page 81 you will see the ratings for the various tires and wheels that Ford offered. If you have 17" wheels, no way can those handle the weights you are going to have once you load the trailer. If you have their upgrade wheels in 18" or 20", you have wheels that compliment the F350 axle rating. You may or may not have tires that will handle it, and you may need to upgrade tires. At least the wheels will handle it. The 18" wheels will give you about 800# greater capacity on the rear axle.

    I think everything else is just fine with your combo. Hell, at least it isn't a Dodge. :)
  • larry_barnhart's avatar
    larry_barnhart
    Explorer
    Aug 10, 2014
    I see serious overloaded short box 2500 trucks most of the time towing more fifth than is smart. Even have a friend that tells about how the 2500 GMC is pushed around from the 34 ft 3 slide Montana and he gets white knuckles but laughs at my comment your truck is too small because it pulls it just fine.


    that usually ends my comments.

    chevman
  • Cummins12V98's avatar
    Cummins12V98
    Explorer III
    Aug 10, 2014
    Free Country but when people intentionally overload their trucks capacity I will speak out since your decision affects all of us on the roads. Common sense tells me 39' behind any 250 is just too much tail for the dog.

    I do have experience in driving a combo that the RV was too much for the TV but hey the experts said I was good to go but guess what roll over on I-5 coming into Portland from the south.

    So I wish you the best of luck with your "Composite Risk Management" decision.
  • drillagent's avatar
    drillagent
    Explorer
    Aug 10, 2014
    bpounds wrote:
    minnow wrote:
    Congratulations on the new trailer. It is going to be a nice combo I'm sure.

    Regarding your rear axle, I assume your new trailer was pretty much empty when you took the weights above. So although the RA load looks good now, it is going to exceed the 6,100# rating when you get loaded up for full-timing. As I said above, that's okay because it is an F350 axle, but you need to check those rear tire/wheel ratings. That is a piece of info you left out above. You really don't want to exceed maximum load rating on a tire.


    ----We have our first ticket issued to the OP from the weight police...


    Either you have a problem with reading, or didn't even bother reading. Or maybe you think it is okay to exceed tire load ratings. Because that is the only advice I gave.


    bpounds - Thank you for your advice. Tire load ratings was one of the things I checked. I was actually surprised to find out that my tires can handle more than the axle. You would think it was the other way around. I don't have the tire numbers with me and DW has the truck at work today. Seriously though, thanks for looking out. It's one of the reasons I like this forum. Somebody out there can clue you in on the things you either didn't know to look for or you simply forgot and overlooked it. Keep it up. Please.
  • drillagent's avatar
    drillagent
    Explorer
    Aug 10, 2014
    Cummins12V98 wrote:
    drillagent wrote:
    WE HAVE A 5TH WHEEL!! Drove four hours one way today to pick up our new to us 2012 Keystone Montana 3750FL. I want to thank everyone here for their wisdom, advice, input, and even their questions which made our walkthrough/PDI run so smooth today. Based on three years of research and prep through this forum, I drove up today in a 2012 F250 diesel SRW with B&W Companion 3500 and Air Lift suspension air bags. In my hands I had two different PDI checklists and recommended equipment gleaned from this forum.

    After running through the checklists, we found three issues that were quickly taken care of. Two of the five slide outs were not seating properly and the awning was moldy and smelled bad.

    Prior to hooking up, I inflated the airbags to 15psi in anticipation of the pressure increasing as load was applied. To my amazement, the truck didn't even squat. The loaded pressure was 30psi which I went ahead and bumped up to 40psi. The truck and the trailer sit almost exactly level.

    I opened the jaws of the B&W companion and followed the ground guide directions to hook up. I got the stop hand signal and noticed the technician was locking the hitch. I didn't even feel or hear the hitch hit the kingpin it was so smooth.

    So, all hitched up, all tanks and water lines emptied, and ready to go, we drove off into a torrential downpour which started just as we left. Did I mention this was the first time I ever towed a 5th wheel? Serious pucker time.

    I was so worried about the rear axle being over weight, our first stop was the CAT scales about three miles up the road. We weighed the truck by itself before we went to the dealership. So here are the weights. BTW, the truck GVWR is 10,000lbs. GCWR is 23,500lbs. RAWR is 6,100lbs. Trailer dry weight is 12,500. Trailer tires LR E 3420lbs for total of 13680.

    Truck alone:
    Steer Axle - 4,940lbs
    Drive Axle - 3,420lbs
    Gross Weight - 8,360lbs

    Truck and Trailer:
    Steer Axle - 4,860lbs
    Drive Axle - 5,760lbs
    Trailer Axle - 10,680lbs
    Gross Weight - 21,300lbs

    Truck Total Weight - 10,675lbs
    Kingpin weight - 2,340lbs
    Trailer Total Weight - 13,020lbs

    The drive home was amazing. I never expected the ride to be so smooth. I never heard or felt any chucking from the hitch. There was some pulling back and a few waves as we went across rough bridges, but nothing like I've heard others on the forum talk about. I set the cruise control at 60mph and it stayed there the whole way. Even through the Arkansas hills. I watched the engine and transmission temps very carefully, and they never went above normal. Even on such a hot, humid day.

    Bottom line, I love my truck, I love my setup, I love my trailer. Two years to retirement can't go quick enough. Full timing, here we come!



    Your truck/RV sit exactly like a properly hitched combo should.

    My question is how can you think that your truck is ok to pull this RV within specs? Did you look at your own numbers?

    You are over your trucks GVWR by 620#.

    Your rear axle rating is 6,100# and before you are fully loaded you weigh 5,760# that only leaves 340# and you will hit that number before you know it.

    Your GCWR is 23,500# you are at 21,300# that leaves only 2,200# for all your stuff.

    You must have your B&W kingpin set behind the center line of the rear axle since you removed 80# from the front axle after RV is attached. You should be adding weight to the front axle.

    BTW good choice on the B&W.

    Am I getting something wrong here?


    It is not physically possible to be under weight with a F250 pulling a 5th wheel designed for full time living. The day I bought the truck, I weighed it with only a full tank of gas and it was over 7,000lbs. Add a hitch and DW and I, and it's already too late. So I knew this going in.

    I was worried about the pin weight, but I was well below my anticipated weight. If you ever get the chance to check out a Montana 3750FL, the first thing you'll notice is that the basement is about 1/3 the size of your typical 5th wheel. The second thing is that 90% of the interior storage is behind the axles. So that should help offset the additional weight. The pin weight is about 18% of the total trailer weight. So even if I add 1,000lbs that would only add 180lbs to the pin. Within limits.

    Besides, I'm in the Army. My family moves on average every three years, so we don't have a lot of stuff to begin with. We're used to living without. I'd be surprised if DW and I add 1,000lbs to the trailer weight.

    The B&W Companion is set as far back as it can go because I have a short bed truck. This is to minimize the chances of striking the cab on turns.

    Thanks about the B&W. I did a lot of research on 5th wheel hitches. A lot. I think the DW threatened to leave me if I didn't just pick one, I was bugging her about it so much. BTW, if you want a great deal on turnoverball installation, go see Village Truck Visions in Joplin, MO. Great bunch of guys. Tornado survivors who rebuilt their shop and are coming back strong and would be happy to have your business.

    So to answer your last question, no, you're not getting something wrong here. However, the Composite Risk Management has been completed and all mitigating factors have been taken into account and the risk level has been deemed acceptable.
  • bpounds's avatar
    bpounds
    Nomad
    Aug 10, 2014
    minnow wrote:
    Congratulations on the new trailer. It is going to be a nice combo I'm sure.

    Regarding your rear axle, I assume your new trailer was pretty much empty when you took the weights above. So although the RA load looks good now, it is going to exceed the 6,100# rating when you get loaded up for full-timing. As I said above, that's okay because it is an F350 axle, but you need to check those rear tire/wheel ratings. That is a piece of info you left out above. You really don't want to exceed maximum load rating on a tire.


    ----We have our first ticket issued to the OP from the weight police...


    Either you have a problem with reading, or didn't even bother reading. Or maybe you think it is okay to exceed tire load ratings. Because that is the only advice I gave.
  • minnow's avatar
    minnow
    Explorer
    Aug 10, 2014
    "My question is how can you think that your truck is ok to pull this RV within specs? Did you look at your own numbers?

    You are over your trucks GVWR by 620#.

    Your rear axle rating is 6,100# and before you are fully loaded you weigh 5,760# that only leaves 340# and you will hit that number before you know it.

    Your GCWR is 23,500# you are at 21,300# that leaves only 2,200# for all your stuff.

    You must have your B&W kingpin set behind the center line of the rear axle since you removed 80# from the front axle after RV is attached. You should be adding weight to the front axle".


    ----We have our first ticket issued to the OP from the weight police...

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