what happened to taking pride in your work

danrclem wrote:
I know cutting costs so the final price is cheaper has a lot do with poor quality but I think there is another reason too. DRUGS! Where I work they don't even do a drug test anymore because most of the applicants can't pass it. The quality and turnover is unreal. I'll be glad when I finally get out of there.

This country is in trouble.

Well - *where* do you work? (Or what kind of work, etc.)

DRUGS:
When I worked at Douglas Aircraft back in the mid 60's, the third shift had a smoky haze floating over the shop areas.

My BIL worked at the Van Nuys (GM) Assembly plant in Van Nuys, same era. Same thing for the third shift there.

You wold be amazed at what the body shop there could do for Camaros and Firebirds with assembly "issues" - and how your new engine was "broken in"!

Not everyone was "zoned out" of course - but the point is.....nothing new, except maybe for the "menu".

OFF TOPIC:
This thread *WAS* about quality of RVs.....now it's gone over to efficiency of various engines.

Someone mentioned engines powering Class 8 tractors.
Another went out and bought a new pickup to tow his heavy trailer.

A singled Class 8 tractor makes an outstanding tow vehicle!
Tow anything you want with ease - stops great too.
A nice used HDT will last a lifetime in RV use, beats any of the "creature comforts" in a LGT -
(Little Girly Truck)- and the cost is way less than a new pickup.
In many states it can be licensed as a MH - standard DL or a Class A non-commercial (due to the trlr) is all that's req'd.

Back to the post above - and the original topic of RV quality.......

....are the Amish doing drugs now?..:R



~

Exactly which engine are you referring to as being an "apples and oranges" comparison? Are we talking about motorhome engines (check what's in diesel pushers - inline 6 cylinder diesels), Class 8 tractors (again, inline 6 cylinder diesels) or pickups (let me look under the hood of mine - yep, an inline 6 cylinder diesel).

If you want to talk industrial and marine engines, we can do that. I retired 1/1/16 after 42+ years service with a manufacturer of industrial engines and compressors (NOT Cummins), so let 'er rip. And, yes, I'm familiar with the superlongstroke crosshead-type marine engines, and they are pretty much a breed unto themselves with no semblance to automotive applications (e.g., uniflow 2 cycle diesels, many of which use turbocompounding to squeeze the last smidgen of efficiency from the fuel they consume).

Rusty

how many gas engines are a 6 inline engine of today. Really does not mean anything to me if I like an engine I will buy it. Now wanting to tow close to 40 K lbs with a small truck compared to the size of the trailer.

chevman

RustyJC wrote:

laknox wrote:

westom wrote:

Jayco-noslide wrote:
I really think that V-8's are pretty much obsolete except for very high performance and race cars.

V-9 engines need extra pistons because they are low performance engines. Even Indy no longer races obsolete technology V-8s. So why are so many RVs still powered by V-8s? Some RV manufacturers fear innovation and change. That explains poor workmanship in other parts of that RV.

Cr@p. It's called "reliability". You get more performance, more easily and with less wear and tear, out of a V8; simple as that. When you have to use blowers or turbos to stuff air into an engine, that means extra stresses and, usually, much higher RPM, to make the same numbers. The =main= reason that race engines are only 4 cyl, is to =limit= performance to =limit= speeds. Just like NASCAR uses restrictor plates on the super-speedways. Yes, we =can= get huge numbers from small engines, but I'll put up my 350 hp Genesis Coupe against an older Corvette, with the same output, and that Corvette will simply leave my Genesis in the dust. People forget about torque, which lower-revving V8s have the lock on. Why do you not see pickups with V6s in them to tow anything more than about 8k lbs? Simple, you just need more torque and performance than a V6 can give.

Lyle

Have you counted the cylinders in Class 8 tractors lately? Almost all over-the-road diesels, all the way up to the 13 and 15 liter classes, are inline 6 cylinders (turbocharged and intercooled, of course). The 6.7L Cummins inline 6 cylinder in my truck (see signature) is sufficient to handle a 39,100 lb GCWR and 30,050 trailer tow rating - that's plenty for my 19,000 GVWR Mobile Suites 5th wheel.

Rusty

Apples and oranges. Most of our pickups couldn't carry that engine in the bed, let alone under the hood. They are long-stroke, high-torque, low-speed engines, designed to be run at constant speeds for long periods. Hell the most innovative and =efficient= IC engine currently running is also the largest engine in the world. The Wartsila-Sulzer RTA96C, in its largest configuration, is an in-line, 14-cylinder monster, weighing in at 2,300+ tons. It is also the most efficient IC "production" engine, running at 50+% conversion of fuel to power. Even the best 4/6-cyl engines don't come close.

Lyle

laknox wrote:

westom wrote:

Jayco-noslide wrote:
I really think that V-8's are pretty much obsolete except for very high performance and race cars.

V-9 engines need extra pistons because they are low performance engines. Even Indy no longer races obsolete technology V-8s. So why are so many RVs still powered by V-8s? Some RV manufacturers fear innovation and change. That explains poor workmanship in other parts of that RV.

Cr@p. It's called "reliability". You get more performance, more easily and with less wear and tear, out of a V8; simple as that. When you have to use blowers or turbos to stuff air into an engine, that means extra stresses and, usually, much higher RPM, to make the same numbers. The =main= reason that race engines are only 4 cyl, is to =limit= performance to =limit= speeds. Just like NASCAR uses restrictor plates on the super-speedways. Yes, we =can= get huge numbers from small engines, but I'll put up my 350 hp Genesis Coupe against an older Corvette, with the same output, and that Corvette will simply leave my Genesis in the dust. People forget about torque, which lower-revving V8s have the lock on. Why do you not see pickups with V6s in them to tow anything more than about 8k lbs? Simple, you just need more torque and performance than a V6 can give.

Lyle

Have you counted the cylinders in Class 8 tractors lately? Almost all over-the-road diesels, all the way up to the 13 and 15 liter classes, are inline 6 cylinders (turbocharged and intercooled, of course). The 6.7L Cummins inline 6 cylinder in my truck (see signature) is sufficient to handle a 39,100 lb GCWR and 30,050 trailer tow rating - that's plenty for my 19,000 GVWR Mobile Suites 5th wheel.

Rusty

laknox wrote:
The =main= reason that race engines are only 4 cyl, is to =limit= performance to =limit= speeds.

Reason for 4 cylinder engines: those better engines provide sufficient (maximum) power while lasting longer due to innovations that make V-8s unnecessary, wasteful, inefficient, and less reliable.

4 cylinder engines represent advancement of technology. V-8s still exist because so many (management and consumers) fear innovation.

V-8s only exist because innovation (that makes low performance V-8s obsolete) was stifled - most often by cost controls as taught in business schools.

Pride in craftsmanship starts from the top management.

westom wrote:

Jayco-noslide wrote:
I really think that V-8's are pretty much obsolete except for very high performance and race cars.

V-9 engines need extra pistons because they are low performance engines. Even Indy no longer races obsolete technology V-8s. So why are so many RVs still powered by V-8s? Some RV manufacturers fear innovation and change. That explains poor workmanship in other parts of that RV.

Cr@p. It's called "reliability". You get more performance, more easily and with less wear and tear, out of a V8; simple as that. When you have to use blowers or turbos to stuff air into an engine, that means extra stresses and, usually, much higher RPM, to make the same numbers. The =main= reason that race engines are only 4 cyl, is to =limit= performance to =limit= speeds. Just like NASCAR uses restrictor plates on the super-speedways. Yes, we =can= get huge numbers from small engines, but I'll put up my 350 hp Genesis Coupe against an older Corvette, with the same output, and that Corvette will simply leave my Genesis in the dust. People forget about torque, which lower-revving V8s have the lock on. Why do you not see pickups with V6s in them to tow anything more than about 8k lbs? Simple, you just need more torque and performance than a V6 can give.

Lyle

I know cutting costs so the final price is cheaper has a lot do with poor quality but I think there is another reason too. DRUGS! Where I work they don't even do a drug test anymore because most of the applicants can't pass it. The quality and turnover is unreal. I'll be glad when I finally get out of there.

This country is in trouble.

darsben1 wrote:
Pride in craftsmanship starts at the top of a company but is not in play today in most workplaces because everything is bottom line and max profit driven

Last month my wife and I were looking at new motorhomes , we were trying to decide ether to buy a motor home or keep our 5th wheel and buy a new truck. I was looking at a motor home and asked the salesman about the crappy craftsmanship on the cabinets and he says to his partner , we have a straight and square guy here. I ask what did you say he says we refer to guys like you to straight and square guys picky picky picky. Well that's all I needed stopped at Ford on the way home and bought a new F-350 powerstroke 4X4 . The new RVs at any level within the reach of middle class are very sketchy these days.