Forum Discussion

Chuck___'s avatar
Chuck___
Explorer
Mar 03, 2015

What I can pull? Updated 3/6/15

I am trying to find exactly what size 5th wheel I can handle safely.
I have a 1999 Dodge 5.7 Cumming Diesel Laramie SLT Club Cab long bed 2 wheel drive 8 ft. bed.
Tires: E rated LT 245/70-R17 Max Load: single 3000, dual 2755.

Update Info 3-6-2015; From Owner's Manual: GVWR=8800, Engine=5.9L I6 Diesel, Trans.=Auto, Axle Ratio=3.54, GCWR=16,000, Max Trailer Wt.=10,200 * 150 lbs allowance for driver. The reason I changed tires from factory LT245/75R16E to 17" is because Les Schwaub and other tire companies said 16" tires are being phased out.

From the recent replies, I feel like my truck is grossly under rated or set up to haul a 5th wheel in the range of 28 ft. to 33 ft.




On the driver's door it says: GVWR=8800 Front GAWR=4410 Rear=6084.

Weighted empty at scale: Front axle 3880 Rear 2780 Total weight= 6540.

To figure out what size of 5th wheel I can safely tow, I take the GHWR or Pin weight: 8800 lbs X .25 or 25% = 2200 lbs.

I tried looking up the GCWR which I think is 15,000 for this truck.

So for example: A 2015 Montana 293RK sticker says: Payload cap.= 2,080 and Loaded Trailer 8,320-10,400

I take 10,400 lbs for the trailer and multiply by .25 which equals 2,600 lbs. Looks like this 5th wheel is too heavy. Right or wrong?

So, what is the biggest-heaviest 5th wheel this truck will handle?
A chart l looked at this morning says 9300 lbs????.

I know I am wearing some of you out but I am truly trying to give all of you out there all the information I have for now on my Girly Man Truck.

Simply said; Are all of you saying that I can only safely tow a 9300 lbs rated 5th wheel? That is not including water, propane, batteries or anything else in the 5th wheel.
  • rhagfo's avatar
    rhagfo
    Explorer III
    Mar 03, 2015
    Chuck .. wrote:
    I'll see if this works!

    I am trying to find exactly what size 5th wheel I can handle safety.
    I have a 1999 Dodge 5.7 Cumming Diesel Cub Cap long bed 2 wheel drive.

    On the driver's door is says: GVWR=8800 Front GAWR=4410 Rear=6084.

    Weighted empty at scale: Front axle 3880 Rear 2780 Total weight= 6540.

    To figure out what size of 5th wheel I can safety tow? GHWR or Pin weight: 8800 lbs X .25 or 25% = 2200 lbs.

    I tried looking up the GCWR which I think is 15,000 for this truck.

    So for example: A Montana 293RK sticker says: Payload cap.= 2,080 and Loaded Trailer 8,320-10,400

    I take 10,400 lbs for the tailor and multiply by .25 which equals, 2,600 lbs. Looks like this 5th wheel is too heavy. Right or wrong.


    Well I can help, but some of you numbers are a bit confusing.
    Let's that these numbers;
    "Weighted empty at scale: Front axle 3880 Rear 2780 Total weight= 6540."
    8,800 - 6540 = 2,260# this is the available payload before exceeding the GVWR of 8,800#.
    You also have 6,084 - 2,780 = 3,304# available before exceeding the rear axle capacity, so at GVWR you will be well within the rear axle capacity.

    Now for the numbers on the 5er.
    "A Montana 293RK sticker says: Payload cap.= 2,080 and Loaded Trailer 8,320-10,400"
    You don't state the year of the Montana. I tow a Keystone Copper Canyon 293 FWSLS, it is a rear kitchen 5er with the same floor plan of the Montana in 2006. The numbers for it are:
    GVWR 12,360#
    Dry weight 9,820#
    loaded 11,000# +/-
    Loaded Pin 2,000# +/-
    If the weight you gave for the TV was loaded for a trip, you would likely be within GVWR by a couple hundred pounds.

    My Ram Cummins 5.9 is a 4X4 so weighs a bit more than yours, so unfortunately I run slightly over my GVWR, but still within axle ratings.
  • sdetweil's avatar
    sdetweil
    Explorer
    Mar 03, 2015
    here is a nice calculator to help

    http://rvtowcheck.com/rvtc_calculator.html

    your total carrying capacity is the smaller of GVWR - actual weight, OR
    RAWR - actual rear axle weight

    On the driver's door is says: GVWR=8800 Front GAWR=4410 Rear=6084.
    Weighted empty at scale: Front axle 3880 Rear 2780 Total weight= 6540.

    | made a mistake, used RAWR for total weight..

    so 8800-6580 = 2220 OR 6084-2780=3304, so smaller is 2220.

    then take the trailer GVWR * .25 = 2600 >2220

    so it does NOT fit..

    and another indicator

    GCWR - Truck GVWR = max Trailer GVWR

    15,000 - 8800 = only 6200
  • lawrosa's avatar
    lawrosa
    Explorer
    Mar 03, 2015
    On the driver's door is says: GVWR=8800 Front GAWR=4410 Rear=6084.

    Weighted empty at scale: Front axle 3880 Rear 2780 Total weight= 6540.


    I dont know what the previous poster is saying there.. That reply is confusing..

    Very simple

    GAWR rear 4410 minus RAWR from scale 2780 = 1630 lbs.

    That 1630 lbs would be max pin weight of any 5th wheel you are looking at.. Mind you with out putting any other passengers or gear in the truck...

    If you go over your axle rating of 4410 then it becomes unsafe. You then need to look at your tires then to see what they support in terms of weight at max psi.... Most likely you will be white knuckled...
  • MFL's avatar
    MFL
    Nomad II
    Mar 03, 2015
    Chuck, if you weighed the truck empty, you only have 2,260 left for payload, before going over GVWR. This payload would include people, gear, pets, hitch, plus the FW loaded pin weight.

    If the loaded FW weighed 10,000 lbs, you would use 20%, for pin weight, so 2,000 lbs.

    If you add the hitch wt of 200 to the 2,000 pin wt, you will be near your trucks GVWR. With you and another passenger, you will go over payload, but should be good on the RAWR.

    Only you know, if you are okay with being over the trucks GVWR. IMO, you could make this combination work, if the truck is in good condition.

    Jerry
  • Golden_HVAC's avatar
    Golden_HVAC
    Explorer
    Mar 03, 2015
    Like stated above, the hitch will come in a 200 pound crate, and you probably will have 400 - 500 pounds more in the truck while camping than the 'empty' weight is now.

    Almost any comfortable fifth wheel will have a 1800 pound hitch weight, so you should be looking at travel trailers when you have a 3/4 ton truck.

    Upgrade to a 3500 SRW and you can start looking at the fifth wheels. The 14,000 pound 'tow' rating given to 3/4 ton trucks is misleading because there are not 'real' fifth wheels out there with a 14,000 GVWR while staying below the 1,200 pound hitch pin weight rating requirement of a 3/4 ton truck.

    You might start looking for a good used "Titanium" by Glendale RV - if you can find one, they have a fairly low pin weight and are a really nice RV. However Glendale RV is not making new ones anymore.

    Good luck!

    Fred.
  • camp-n-family's avatar
    camp-n-family
    Explorer
    Mar 03, 2015

    I dont know what the previous poster is saying there.. That reply is confusing..

    Very simple

    GAWR rear 4410 minus RAWR from scale 2780 = 1630 lbs.

    That 1630 lbs would be max pin weight of any 5th wheel you are looking at.. Mind you with out putting any other passengers or gear in the truck...

    If you go over your axle rating of 4410 then it becomes unsafe. You then need to look at your tires then to see what they support in terms of weight at max psi.... Most likely you will be white knuckled...


    You're a little off as well. 4410 is the FRONT axle weight rating. With a fiver he needs to be concerned with the RAWR which is 6048lbs. A fiver will add little, if any weight, to the front axle.

    6048 - 2780 = 3268lbs before maxing out the RAWR.
  • JIMNLIN's avatar
    JIMNLIN
    Explorer III
    Mar 03, 2015
    op wrote:
    On the driver's door is says: GVWR=8800 Front GAWR=4410 Rear=6084.

    Weighted empty at scale: Front axle 3880 Rear 2780 Total weight= 6540.

    Thanks for posting actual scaled truck weights.
    Makes for simple math.
    As the first reply (rhagfo) says simply subtract the trucks 2780 rear axle weight from 6084 RAWR = around 3300 lbs for a payload. The rear axle on a pickup will carry just about 100 percent of a 5th wheel trailers pin weight. The trucks front axles simply isn't a player in carrying more weight.



    Older 3/4 ton trucks have about the same 6000-6200 RAWR as the new trucks. The old trucks have more actual axle load capacity than the new/heavier trucks in many cases.

    GCWR isn't required to be placarded on our trucks and older trucks are all but impossible to find.

    RV folks use all kinds of calculations to figure loads the trucks axles will carry.
    Some use a GVWR number.
    Some use a GCWR number.
    Some use the tire payload placard number on the newer trucks.
    Some don't use any number they just hook up and go.
    Some use a number from a brochure.

    Just stay under the trucks RAWR on the certification door sticker and the truck will be fine.
  • fla-gypsy's avatar
    fla-gypsy
    Explorer
    Mar 03, 2015
    Chuck .. wrote:
    I'll see if this works!

    I am trying to find exactly what size 5th wheel I can handle safety.
    I have a 1999 Dodge 5.7 Cumming Diesel Cub Cap long bed 2 wheel drive.

    On the driver's door is says: GVWR=8800 Front GAWR=4410 Rear=6084.

    Weighted empty at scale: Front axle 3880 Rear 2780 Total weight= 6540.

    To figure out what size of 5th wheel I can safety tow? GHWR or Pin weight: 8800 lbs X .25 or 25% = 2200 lbs.

    I tried looking up the GCWR which I think is 15,000 for this truck.

    So for example: A Montana 293RK sticker says: Payload cap.= 2,080 and Loaded Trailer 8,320-10,400

    I take 10,400 lbs for the tailor and multiply by .25 which equals, 2,600 lbs. Looks like this 5th wheel is too heavy. Right or wrong.


    A couple of things first, your scaled weight is 6660 (3880+2780) not 6540. That leaves you a payload of 2140 (8800-6660). That limits your total cargo including passengers, cargo, hitch and pin weight pretty substantially. If you choose to use RAWR alone you may be alright but it is not something I would ever recommend. With a truck that is 16 years old any weakness in the components will surely be revealed before you put 3300 additional lbs on that rear axle IMO. You are on the right track with your calculations just need to check your numbers for accuracy and determine how much weight the truck can take.
  • sdetweil's avatar
    sdetweil
    Explorer
    Mar 03, 2015
    So, what is the biggest-heaviest 5th wheel this truck will handle?
    A cart l look up this morning says 9300 lbs????.

    many of the charts show the MAX configured truck, but usually these don't match of our our ACTUAL trucks

    if you want to follow the 'official' rules,

    its either
    a) GCVWR - truck GVWR = max trailer GVWR , so 15,000-8800 = 6200 total

    or (more daring)

    b) RAWR- RAW = max trailer pin weight. (range 15-25%) 6084-2780 = 3304
    at 15% pin/trailer gvwr = 22026
    at 25% pin/trailer gvwr = 13216

    so, its either 6200 (stay within the GCVWR, actual weights don't matter)
    or somewhere between 13216 and 22026 depending on the pin weight percentage...

    thats 2 to 3.5 times the GCVWR calculation of 6200.

    tow vehicle brakes, suspension, and tires would be my worry for anything over 6200 total weight.

    | edited again, cause I clearly can't copy numbers from one place to another. sorry.

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