1989 Fleetwood Jambo Ford E-350 with 460 engine question

I recently purchased a used 89 Fleetwood Jamboree with Ford E-350 460 engine. It has 36,000 miles. I drove it home after private party purchase on approx. 150 miles drive,and it performed fine about 75 degree weather. A few weeks later, I took to a mobile mechanic to address electrical issue (coach lights and generator not working unless engine on or plugged into shore power). Anyway, it was 110 degrees in Cali that day, and while motor was running in park, it suddenly shut off. In total the engine had been running for about 45 minutes, but was only in park for about 2-3 minutes. Luckily I was in a Pet Boys parking lot when it happened. Not being too familiar with the mechanical history I thought the fuel pump went out (as there are two), but both were making a noise so I changed out fuel filter. Still would not start. Sprayed starting fluid into intake and it started after a few attempts of this same pattern. I let it run for about 5-10 minutes and proceeded to drive home, forgoing the initial electrical issue, as the engine was now my main concern. When Shortly after entering the freeway I encountered traffic at about 35-40 mph. Within a mile and while going up a small grade, the motor made some loud violent noises almost like a miss-fire and I could see hood compartment shaking. I applied throttle to go up grade but speedo needle continued to drop (no acceleration) to zero and then engine quit altogether again. I was able to re-start it right away but only for a few seconds. The 100 degree heat was unbearable, and not knowing what was wrong I had to call a tow truck. Next morning I went to tow yard and it started right up? A mobile mechanic came out and found no error codes. Pressure in fuel pump was tested and determined to be good. I found a nearby grade, much steeper than the one it died on the day prior, and climbed it without any problem. I was unable to duplicate the issue. Any thoughts on why it died on me? Again it was very HOT on the day in question but engine was on for less than an hour in total. When I drive it the temp needle stays in the middle but tends to move a bit towards the "H" under load. Also after running the motor for a few minutes, the hood release becomes extremely hot to where you need a rag to open it. Is the 460 motor known for getting overly hot? Anyone have this same experience? I am considering changing the ignition control module but I don't see it mounted anywhere on the left fender. Does anyone know for certain where the module is located on a 1989 Fleetwood Jamboree E-350? Research says might be on distributor, but with hood open I cant see beyond the top of distributor unless air filter and hoses removed...Hoping I have recourse to address this issue, wondering since it's almost 30 yrs old perhaps options are now available. Thanks for reading, any help is appreciated.

Class C

20 Replies

theoldwizard1
Explorer II
Jul 20, 2018
fleetwoodjambo wrote:
Thanks for the info Steve, I plan to clean my radiator or perhaps upgrade to new heavy duty. In regards to the Ignition Control Module, I have checked the inside area of both fenders and its not mounted there on my 89 Fleetwood. I believe its on the side of my distributor ...

I don't know if Ford every released a separate cable for remote mounted TFI, but if you can find such one, getting the heat sink and mounting it on the fender would be a good idea.
theoldwizard1
Explorer II
Jul 20, 2018
maillemaker wrote:
But, people over on the E350 forum (see link above) were saying that it is not uncommon for the PIP sensor to go bad. The PIP is the profile ignition pickup (pip) sensor, otherwise known as a camshaft position sensor. Unfortunately, this sensor is inside the distributor, and it's generally easier to replace the entire distributor rather than disassemble it and replace it.

Admittedly it has been a VERY LONG TIME since I "played" with a PIP sensor or a TFI (Thick Film Ignition module), but my recollection was there were on a couple of screws/metric bolts that held it to the distributor housing. Fairly easy to replace.

Neither of theses device like high heat, but, IIRC, they would die completely (i.e. replacement was required)

maillemaker wrote:
Other suspects are the Engine Control Computer, ...
Highly unlikely. The EEC-IV was pretty bullet proof.
bobm253
Explorer
Jul 19, 2018
Reading all this stuff makes me miss the old days when all we had to worry about was gas and spark. Ignition points, condenser and carburetor with an external fuel pump, gas filter and pcv valve. So easy to maintain, diagnose and fix. Never had to, or went to a dealer for repairs.

If I could, I would have my new vehicles the same way. They can keep all the fancy computers and modules after modules.

Anyway, good luck with your situation.
fleetwoodjambo
Explorer
Jul 19, 2018
Thanks for the info Steve, I plan to clean my radiator or perhaps upgrade to new heavy duty. In regards to the Ignition Control Module, I have checked the inside area of both fenders and its not mounted there on my 89 Fleetwood. I believe its on the side of my distributor (but I cant see without moving intake and hoses), as this would make sense as to why it heats up as there is poor ventilation near my distributor. From what I have read, the ICM heats up and will cut engine. After cooling you can re-start and be on your way, but apparently after this happens a few time the ICM eventually burns out and needs replacement. I'm going to start with the ICM, as there is a white heat grease that you can add to create a heat barrier and keep it cooler. Since my issue occurred on a very hot day and I have not been able to duplicate since then, I could be chasing my tail, but having good spark and fuel I dont know what else could have caused my engine to die besides ICM? Thanks for the pics
maillemaker
Explorer
Jul 19, 2018
I believe I had the same problem recently. I have a 1990 Winnebago Warrior based on an E350 with a 460 engine.

Took the RV up to Virginia back in May. Was having overheating problems. Got home and started to drain the coolant to replace the thermostat, and noticed looking down the filler neck that the radiator was full of sediment encrusted around the cores. You can read my entire radiator replacement saga here, with pictures. For those not interested in going to the link, don't buy from CarID.

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1543596-suggest-a-radiator.html

Here is a shot looking down the filler neck:

When I got the radiator out, it looked even worse on the bottom end of the cores.

Anyway, I got the radiator and thermostat replaced, and went for a test drive. It was about 100F out and I ran for about 20 minutes at 65 MPH, then down the interstate at 70 MPH for about 15 minutes, and then got off onto a surface street to come home. I had the AC on Max the whole time.

As soon as I got off the interstate onto a surface street, the engine started misfiring/backfiring in the intake whenever the accelerator was pressed. The RV was stumbling to death and I was just able to pull it into the center turn lane of this 5 lane road I was on when it died. Attempts to get it to start again resulted in a fast crank-over with misses on cranking that made it sound like it was out of gas. I called Good Sam for a tow, but while they were off looking for someone (this was the 4th of July) I popped the hood and noticed that the negative battery terminal connection was loose. I had pulled the battery during the radiator install, and my battery cut-off switch had broken, so I hastily replaced it with another bolt-on terminal I had in a toolbox. Evidently I did not tighten it enough. I used my tools to tighten the connection. Tried to start, but it did the same missing thing. After waiting about 15 minutes, it started back up again and drove home without issue, so I was able to wave off Good Sam before they sent anyone.

Like you, I got no codes. But, the bad battery connection may have wiped them.

My hope is that with the negative connection disconnecting from the battery that it just sent the ECM into a tizzy.

But, people over on the E350 forum (see link above) were saying that it is not uncommon for the PIP sensor to go bad. The PIP is the profile ignition pickup (pip) sensor, otherwise known as a camshaft position sensor. Unfortunately, this sensor is inside the distributor, and it's generally easier to replace the entire distributor rather than disassemble it and replace it.

Other suspects are the Engine Control Computer, or the Ignition Control Module, but it was said that they do not go bad as often as they are located on the fenders and away from the worst of the heat.

Steve
T18skyguy
Explorer
Jul 18, 2018
I use to have several 460's and I agree with oldwiz. Replace that TFI module. Something else that really helped me was clean the radiator inside and outside. I actually removed mine, laid it on the driveway, sprinkled it with dish washing detergent, then put the hose on it real strong. I was amazed at the amount of dirt that washed out. When I put it back in the temperature gauge was lower on the dial about a 1/16 of an inch.
theoldwizard1
Explorer II
Jul 18, 2018
First, that vintage engine may be computer controlled fuel injection, but On Board Diagnostic were not installed until 1996MY.

IHMO, not likely the fuel pump. They tend to work or not work and usually "announce" their "departure" by making load noises in advance.

That vintage engine would have a TFI ignition module which don't like to get hot. Some were mount on the side of the distributor just below the cap. Others were mounted on a thick aluminum heat sink bolted to the fender. Again, these tend to be a hard failure.

Find an old fashion repair shop and determine if your motohome has the HD radiator. It should also have the auxiliary transmission cooler. If not, get them installed. Also check to see if the fan clutch is working properly.

I think most of the other items are red herrings.
fleetwoodjambo
Explorer
Jul 17, 2018
Thanks for response. Since the initial issue occurred, I took it camping last week and drove approx 200 miles round trip, longest stretch at any one time was about 65 miles. It ran and drove fine, but the weather last week was 25-30 degrees cooler. Wondering if issue is specifically related to heat, I have no experience with the 460 engine but saw a few posts about not doing well in heat since I first posted. Would a clogged fuel pump produce a good fuel pressure test? With 36,000 miles it may be the original one from 1989, but too bad its located inside the tank. I had it tested and pressure was good. Fuel filter was changed the day it happened but nothing else has been changed. I did fill the tank up from a quarter till empty, all the way until full the day before the incident happened, maybe fuel type, but having owned a Ford 6.0L F-350 the sound was different than the injector problem I have experienced in the past with my truck. I will change the O2 censor and module as you mentioned.
ScottG
Nomad
Jul 17, 2018
There are so many possibilities..

EFI so probably not vapor lock.
Agree with Bud on ign. module and this would be my first guess. They are VERY prone to failure and even if it's good, I would carry a spare.
Could be rubber fuel lines destroyed by our new corn gas and it's sucking air.
Could be a bad fuel pump even though you can hear it. Sock for FP may be clogged.
Eng sensor(s) could be failing.
Cat converter could be clogged. (I would replace the 02 sensor in it even if it runs fine).
Injector clogged.
Vacuum leak.
EGR sticking open.

When it does it you need to check for the basics: Spark and fuel.
enblethen
Nomad
Jul 17, 2018
First item I would change is the fuel filter.
Most gas MHs get warm under the hood area because there is little ventilation.
Problem could be vapor lock.
Not sure of any other location for ignition module. Try following bundle of wires coming out of the distributor.

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1989 Fleetwood Jambo Ford E-350 with 460 engine question

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