AVIDA Esperance best selling Motorhome in Australia

4x4 Van wrote:
That Australian unit looks to have slightly better clearance than my US 27' unit, and I'm sure there are plenty of others that are the same, so it seems to me to be a moot point.

Correct the AVIDA has much more ground clearance, than a E450 , People go off road, vastly more than they do in the U.S. The E serie is basically an Urban Delivery Van based Motorhome

4x4 Van wrote:
I, for one, like to see what other countries are doing. I'm tired of having low quality cookie cutter RVs shoved down our throats; nearly every brand, model, size available shares the same materials, colors, cabinetry, options, and low initial quality. Why? Because we think that's the way it has to be done, and so we don't demand better.

You have hit the nail on the head. Imported US RV's Motorhome or Travel Trailers suffer badly in this regard., they are Brand X even before you climb into the Motorhome

nomad 289 wrote:
For $135K Dodgen Industries (Born Free) will build you a 4x4 Class C built on a F550 Diesel Truck chassis. Nice nice.

I passed due to small fresh capacity ~30 gal (and the price).


.

Prices for Motorhomes in Australia are higher, related to general high prices of everything and high wages and salaries and smaller volumes sold
Before anyone states that U.S. Motorhomes are much cheaper, ir is the other factors I stated that make the E350/E450's non starters. Conversion costs are not that great or could be done at the factory i.e. Tiffin

Pnichols wrote:
Robert ... your comments above and many of your others regarding the Ford E Series van chassis do not apply across the pond from you ... and you know it. As you are well aware, thousands upon thousands of U.S. travelers have been enjoying a Ford chassis under their caravans for decades

Yes they have used the basic Econoline for decades, but the U.S.
built British. designed Transit has taken over rather well. I do not know if.
the 3.2 Diesel unit has been released in the U.S. That model is the same as selling here, but not doing that well as there is a lot of competition in that segment. The Transit has never sold well for Ford here and the newer model less so

For $135K Dodgen Industries (Born Free) will build you a 4x4 Class C built on a F550 Diesel Truck chassis. Nice nice.

I passed due to small fresh capacity ~30 gal (and the price).


.

We're talking at cross purposes here on many issues.

1) Some of those Australian units don't appear to have the clearance of a common full size U.S. pickup truck ... many U.S. Class C units do (especially the shorter ones) when built on the typical cutaway van chassis. Also, are those Australian units sporting LT215/225 tires or something smaller in diameter? (An LT215 tire, BTW, has a larger diameter than a LT225 tire.)

2) Many (small) U.S. Class C rigs do not come with distributed ducting for both systems, only the more practical ones do.

3) Dinnette seat storage is more accessible than other horizontal-access-only internal storage areas. Dinnette seat storage is usually via the end of the bench AND from the top of the bench by removing the cushion and it's support board. We find our dinnette seats' full volume top acces is super convenient for any size items that will fit there.

4) I wouldn't buy a Class C - U.S. sourced or otherwise - without a strong roof top access ladder on it. Read in the forums about ease of rooftop access while in storage, and more importantly - about the need for unexpected rooftop access on the open road or in campsites. We have a crowned and slippery one-piece fiberglass roof. No way am I going to step side-ways off a step ladder onto the edge of it, or no way am I going to prop a ladder against it and risk marring of the wall material or edge of the roof - even I could figure out where to carry a ladder in/on a small Class C during travels.

5) If the RV in the initial photos in this thread is anything inside like the bubble-roof Class Cs I've been in here in the U.S., the low ceiling area behind the bubble is not acceptable for tall folks. I'd never buy one designed like that.

6) A Class C generator never belongs behind the rear axle if it can be between the axles instead. It's too heavy to be back there unloading the front axle.

9) Flooring is a preference - with hardwood flooring in an RV being on the cutesy side .... not the practical side. Try over-flowing a tank once on the inside, or having a water line break once with the water pump left on to see what I mean.

10) We like the shower and toilet together - but definitely the bathroom sink separated - so that we can more conveniently use the bathroom sink instead of the kichen sink for dumping of kitchen water. Our grey tank is smaller than the black tank and the bathroom sink dumps into the black tank .... we even-out filling of the two tanks' capacities when drycamping by using the grey tank less and the black tank more for grey water when the grey tank approaches full. This extends our drycamping.

11) Are the OP's posts intended for his local market or the U.S. market ... with respect to tank capacities. Even if for his local market ... I thought that the Australian RV experience could includ a lot of remote outback caravaning for many customers - which implies long drycamping episodes, which implies large-as-possible tanks - even more so than in the Western U.S.

12) My unit came stock with curtaining off capability - no option needed for that.

IMHO, this whole discussion comes down to preference - does one prefer a more cutesy RV or a more practical RV - especially at the price point(s) we're talking about? At prices like $135K, I would expect plenty of both with not a lot of compromise. However to be fair - the U.S. ~$150K Coach House Class C motorhomes do not always come with enough of both, either. :)

pnichols wrote:

The points I listed are merely some concerns and issues that I noticed from studying the photos. Here's how my list above stacks up with respect to our simple old fashioned generic American unit (2005 24 foot Itasca on an E450 chassis), that, IMHO provides more value than many recent rigs from other places:

- We have about the same ground clearance as the typical stock pickup truck. This means that our coach exit doorsill, sewer drain, and generator exhaust pipe are up high, too. The exit doorsill height is mitigated by an automatic step that tucks way up high when retracted.

- We have distributed heating and cooling with full digital controls.

- All of the volume under both of our two dinnette seats is available for storage.

- We have a roof ladder that has stood up under heavy use al long time for roof inspections and waxings.

- Our ceiling height is around 6' 8" everywhere, including the shower stall.

- Our generator is where it belongs in a Class C .... between the axles to help keep weight distribution optimum and to keep fumes, noise, and vibration away from the two queen beds.

- We have double galley sinks.

- Both of our side roof edges along their entire length are rolled down over the side panels 3-4 inches to eliminate any seam leaks there for the life of the motorhome.

- Flooring in an RV boils down to a matter of fluff versus practical preference. We would not want natural or engineered hardwood floors in an RV for a variety of reasons, but if one wants hardwood flooring in their RV it should be of the engineered kind for better stability in a mobile environment.

- I could not see the shower/toilet/sink layout in the photo. Our shower is separate from the toilet and the shower and toilet are separate from the rear sink.

- Our FW capacity is 45 gallons, our BW capacity is 39 gallons, our GW capacity is 29 gallons, our propane capacity is 18 gallons, and our fuel capacity is 55 gallons. The BW and GW tanks can combined by valves, if desired, for a total capacity of 68 gallons.

- The rear queen bed, shower, toilet, and sink can be curtained off to make a private area separate from the rest of the motorhome. The cabover queen bed can be curtained off for privacy, too. The motorhome came stock with this setup ... we did not have to make it that way.

We have over one ton of extra carrying capacity so we can load up the RV with impunity due to it being a small Class C, yet on an E450 chassis.

None of my comments above are meant to be snarky ... just meant to maybe help some folks better know where to look for comparative value in a U.S. sourced, or other, Class C. :)

A few points to your "list" of things that make your US unit better:
1. While a typical 24' class C may have adequate ground clearance,that is not always the case and once you start going longer, that clearance typically decreases. That Australian unit looks to have slightly better clearance than my US 27' unit, and I'm sure there are plenty of others that are the same, so it seems to me to be a moot point.
2. Again with the ducted heating/cooling; that unit has it as well. While it is certainly nice that yours has it, ducted AC is actually the exception on a small class C.
3. While both of your dinette seats are available for storage, that means that your furnace, water tank, converter are located elsewhere, taking up storage space in those locations. It, again, is a moot point. Wherever equipment IS, there is no storage, wherever equipment ISN'T, there is storage. My furnace is located under one of my dinette seats; no storage there. BUT that means that I have storage somewhere else, likely where YOUR furnace is located.
4. Again, I agree that a ladder is needed. BUT, many US models lack them as well. On the Avida, it IS an option, along with a roof rack.
5. My ceiling height varies, from 6'6" in the rear half, to 6'10" in the front half. But I see nothing in the pics to suggest that the AVIDA is lacking in that, so... Edit: the specs for the unit show 6'6" interior height.
6. Your generator is where it belongs ONLY IF the RV has a rear bed. This one doesn't. My generator is at the very back of the RV, which is exactly where IT belongs, since I have no beds in the back, but rather a full width rear bath (like this unit). So perhaps this generator is exactly where it belongs, for this particular floorplan.
7. I, too, have double galley sinks, as do most US RVs. A very minor issue with this unit. Different markets have different priorities.
8. Again, it "appears" to have the rolled over roof. The specs are unclear, although it does reference the roof as being domed for water runoff.
9. Flooring is, as you say, a preference, so I'm not sure why you keep bringing it up. Linoleum (cheap, IMO), engineered flooring, carpet...whatever floats your boat as long as it is lightweight and can withstand the intended use.
10. I can partly see the rear bathroom in the rear facing picture, which shows the separate sink, toilet, and shower (out of view) in one bathroom. This is exactly like my own layout, and we love it. Some people prefer a split bathroom, with the shower on one side of the RV, and the toilet & sink on the other. Some prefer the shower and toilet in one room, and the rear sink separate. Different strokes, although personally I dislike separating any of the "bathroom" facilities into separate areas. For me, a bathroom is one room, with all the associated facilities (sink, toilet, shower).
11. Your tank capacities are very good for a class C, although that is likely because of the smaller unit (24') on the heavier E450 chassis. The bigger the unit, the smaller the tanks typically become (on class Cs), due to overloading concerns. I do agree that the tank capacities on this Autralian unit are not sufficient for the US market (but then again, it's not targeted at the US market, is it?).
12. The rear of this unit can also be curtained off (an available option according to the OP), and a cabover curtain, if not standard, could be easily added.
13. Yes, the small C on the heavy E450 chassis is great for your carrying capacity; it's not, however, typical here in the US. 24' class Cs are more likely to be on the E350 chassis instead.

The OP, I believe, was simply showing us in the US a different perspective on RVs, not trying to put US units down. And importing an RV from Australia is not likely to be practicable anyway, so the comparative value is not really the point either. I, for one, like to see what other countries are doing. I'm tired of having low quality cookie cutter RVs shoved down our throats; nearly every brand, model, size available shares the same materials, colors, cabinetry, options, and low initial quality. Why? Because we think that's the way it has to be done, and so we don't demand better. These posts give an inkling that maybe, just maybe, there are other ways to look at RVs. That's a good thing.

RobertRyan wrote:
As far as E350 bases and ex US E350 Motorhomes go, they have been an abysmal failure here,although relatively cheap .Poor handling, fragile build quality limited towing with 305hp tune, seemingly limited payload capacity, horrendous fuel consumption if using V10, need to convert to LPG with bigger fuel tanks..

Robert ... your comments above and many of your others regarding the Ford E Series van chassis do not apply across the pond from you ... and you know it. As you are well aware, thousands upon thousands of U.S. travelers have been enjoying a Ford chassis under their caravans for decades. Tens of thousands of businesses and emergency services here have also used the E Series vans for decades. Also as you are well aware, the E150/E250/E350/E450/E550 Fords are an American classic. It seems like Ford is merely aiming for higher fuel economy (including a push for diesel and hybridization), moving of the engine a bit for more legroom, adding of electronics, and a less commercial look in their upcoming replacement of their E Series. I don't know about your market, but what is needed here is continuance of the availability of a motorhome capable cutaway chassis choice of 14,500 lbs - or even higher - of total weight carrying capacity for the longer Class C motorhomes that are popular here. That may not be needed, or wanted, nearly as much in your market as here.

RobertRyan wrote:
Quote:

12 volt roof fan in bathroom
Hanging rail in shower
Large bathroom sliding door (B & C7923SL only)
Mirror with lights over vanity
Porcelain bowl toilet
Separate shower
Separate vanity basin
Shower screen
Skylight in bathroom
Toilet roll holder
Toothbrush holder
Towel rail

To continue with this back and forth (that I hope is doing some future owners some good):

Many, if not most, U.S. sourced Winnebago, Fleetwood, Forest River, PC Cruiser, Lazy Daze, Coash House, Tiger, etc. Class C motorhomes come with everything on the above list ... nothing new there. Our Itasca came stock with everything on the above list except for a porcelain toilet bowl (which we did not want due to it's weight being concentrated on a small area of the flooring) or a toothbrush holder (we use electric tootbrushes which wouldn't have fit in that holder, anyway) - plus our rig came with a lot more features and conveniences that you should already be well aware of due to my listing of them elsewhere in these forums. Whenever I list them it's not to "brag" or "snark" ... it's to help future shoppers with what to look for ... instead of lucking out after the purchase like we did. We were not aware of some of what be got until after the purchase, as we did not have these forums to help us back then.

The one characteristic we WERE SURE we wanted when we shopped was a slightly overkill chassis under the motorhome for the additional chassis systems ruggedness that naturally comes with the broader design margins. The biggest feature we got with our U.S. sourced new motorhome purchase was choice of a 12,000 lb. chassis or a 14,050 chassis under it, thanks to Ford (and now ... Chevy). We went with the E450 because we wanted "no weight restrictions" just in case we 1) wanted to add increased water capacity for general drycamping, and 2) for carrying of equipment and rocks when wilderness rockhounding.

Here's an intentional snark on my part: "About $135K USD .... you have to be kidding." :E

"What is the price"

Asking about $135K USD

qtla9111 wrote:
Give credit where credit is due. Sometimes someone does something better than we do. Accept it, learn from it, and make changes.

Can't wait until we have more import options.

Hopefully it will lead to better choices

4x4Van pretty spot on assessment, yes PNichols comments have been "snarky", as regards any Van outside the US to an irrational extent.

Hmmm ... photos and specs of many recent Class C units manufactured outside of the U.S. seem to paint them, IMHO, as containing a lot of "fluff"

Good summing up of the AVIDA Esperance.As far as E350 bases and ex US E350 Motorhomes go, they have been an abysmal failure here,although relatively cheap .Poor handling, fragile build quality limited towing with 305hp tune, seemingly limited payload capacity, horrendous fuel consumption if using V10, need to convert to LPG with bigger fuel tanks.. I can really see the urgent need for Ford to develop a new much more effective base for the upcoming T450 Motorhomes
Bathroom of AVIDA Esperance Main Criticism of the Esperance has been Kitchen bench space and that has been addressed

12 volt roof fan in bathroom
Hanging rail in shower
Large bathroom sliding door (B & C7923SL only)
Mirror with lights over vanity
Porcelain bowl toilet
Separate shower
Separate vanity basin
Shower screen
Skylight in bathroom
Toilet roll holder
Toothbrush holder
Towel rail