Hi to all,My wife & I have been going back and forth for the past few months about which type of used unit to purchase which is within our budget. This purchase will probably happen in the Fall, Winter or Spring, to be ready to use it next summer. We've been watching ads and we're now seeing prices getting more attractive.Through the years we've had a pop-up, travel trailer, older small Class A, and an older 26' Class C, and we now have a 20' hybrid. This time we've considered MH to TT and back again, and now we're pretty sure we want to go ahead with a 1997-2002 Class A within the $30k'ish range. The Class A gets us the levelers, storage and generator that just aren't available with a TT. We've had used before so used doesn't scare us. We'll of course make sure to get a unit that has lived in the south or southwest, no rust, hasn't set up for years without use, decent service records, no major damage, etc...I have some basic questions on these years of Class A's as they are newer and larger than anything we've had before. We're most probably looking at 33'-36' length, and we're definitely looking for only a Chevy chassis since those years saw the first Ford V-10s come in with the plug issues. We know those plug issues were resolved long ago, but in the year models we're looking at, its got to be Chevy, preferably the 8.1L Workhorse, or (if we can't find the right 8.1L), a 7.4L 454.Here are the first questions:.) What is the chassis difference between a '98 7.4L Chevy and a 2001 8.1L Workhorse? Was the Workhorse heavier and/or wider? Did it drive/ride better? How was it different? .) Was the Allison transmission only available with the Workhorse 8.1L, or was it also available on the late 1990's 7.4L models?.) Since we're looking at the longer units, we're looking at 2 roof A/C's and 50 amp service. To date we've only had 30 amp models. Question - can you plug a 50 amp unit into a 30 amp service, of course as long as you don't try to use over 30 amps at one time ? Is a costly smart adapter necessary to hook up to the 30 amp service from a 50 amp unit or is it just a plug adapter?Many thanks in advance, Marty

my experience was with a 99 pace arrow. A v10, 275hp, with the short reach plugs.I never had a problem with the plugs, period. I had one cracked exhaust manifold but it didn't leak so I ignored it.I bought a tuner, which helped power a lot, and also helped the trans, not downshifting nearly so much, which did help the sound level in the cab.The 97-2002 year range puts you right smack in the middle of when slideouts first started showing up. I like slides, the more and the bigger the better. Free Space. Some will disagree.Our PA was a top of the line gasser. Double pane windows, washer dryer, genie, powergear levelers. VERY nice coach, for a 1999 gasser. We looked at Damon, Thor, Forest River, not even close in quality.At 30ish, you might be able to get a DP. I'd lose the slides to get into a DP if I had to. The difference is amazing. The ride. The power, the silence. A thousand ft-lbs of diesel torque, 40 feet behind you at 2000 rpm is "just a bit different" than a gasser screaming between your legs at 5500 rpm... just saying...

Never any plug problems on our '99 either at 87k miles. The V10 F53 chassis would be my choice from the handling to fuel mileage & resale.

Thanks for the info Jim. I'm just not familiar enough with the Ford V10's to make an informed decision, whereas I know I'll be pretty safe with the 7.4L & 8.1L GM. I've looked (online) at some of the PA's and they are beautiful. The unit we get must have at least the one big slide, and some of the units we've looked at also have a bedroom slide which is very appealing for more room/storage there.And about slides - One more question I have is that if a unit has two slides, on opposite sides of the unit, does this further limit the campsites available due to unit width?

You can do so much better than spending $30K. I found a 2002 Fleetwood Fiesta a couple of years ago with 15K miles on it. Granted the Fiesta isn't the high end of the Fleetwood line. I'm on a Workhorse Chasis but not the Allison Tranny. Has 8.1 Ltr V8 with plenty of power to climb pulling a toad. It's got the GM Truck 4 speed. It has all the normal things you would expect and actually a very nice unit.Anyway, I wound up paying only $18K. and got a brand new Master Tow Dolly with it. So, they are out there. Like I said mine in nice and plenty or room for wife, me and a big dog. I did replace the tires though. Came with these upgrades....2 flat screen TV'sTow DollyDrawer bank under the couchStainless steel back slash around kitchen sinkBrand New 15K BTU A?C on roof...ducted4 outside back up camera's. Front, rt side, left side and rear w/color monitorNew plank vilyl flooring. Old capret gone.New Interstate Batteries (2)All service records and receipts came with the RV from day it was new.

Thanks for that info Sam. That helped. So, evidently the Allison was an option with the 8.1L Workhorse, with the regular GM tranny standard? Good to know.And the $30k is, hopefully a max figure to include all taxes, add-ons, new tires, etc, and we're hopeful that something can be had for less. Already we're seeing units in the low-mid 20s that would fill the bill fine, but not the ones we want within a day's drive. We're in the Nashville, Tn area. And we figure those advertised prices are going to need new tires plus some other stuff.That sounds like a great buy Sam, and we've got our eyes out. I'm scanning every website I can find that seems to have up-to-date ads, and I'm monitoring sites that seem to have good deals. PPL Motorhomes in Texas has a great selection, but too far for us to travel. We've already traveled by car to check on two units, only to find significant problems not revealed by the salesman, so a really long distance purchase on an older unit is too scary for us now.

Basic Class A questions - looking for used 1997-2002

64 Replies

glamisorbust
Explorer II
Sep 08, 2014
I had no clue I was a drama queen. Thanks for letting me in on that.
Bumpyroad
Explorer
Sep 08, 2014
soren wrote:
Last year we decided to cut our losses and sell an eleven year old DP that not only was terribly outdated, on the inside and out, but needed about $10K in work on many systems. (brakes, basement air, dash air, etc.....) All this work was required, but did absolutely nothing to the value of the coach. We replaced it with a seven year old 33' Gas Winny Vista, that not only was affordable, but in pristine condition. That said, having owned both, I find a lot of these comments questionable.

excellent post.
bumpy
MartyW
Explorer
Sep 08, 2014
Thanks Tropical36, Bumpy, Richard, CA Traveler and soren.

And, Richard, I appreciate your summing it up - "You might note from this thread that all the class A chassis have some short comings. If I was to do it over again, the only chassis I would avoid is the old Chevy P32 chassis. Pick the short comings you want to deal with and go RVing".

Soren - you expressed the sentiment I was thinking when we started this thread, about gassers being ok and DP's being -possibly- much more expensive for maintenance& repairs. Your points are much appreciated. We've had two gassers and we enjoyed them both, and we never had huge expense from the drive train.

You guys have done exactly what I asked, and wow was that complicated - and really appreciated. And you all have given my wife and me plenty to talk about and chew on for the next few days and weeks. She and I have been talking, and at the moment I can't say whether the DP would be the smartest (for us and our usage), or an older 460/454. We're gonna be looking at used rigs every weekend from now until it either gets too cold when winter sets in, or until we drag something home. And, at the moment, I honestly can't say for sure what that will be. The looking will be more fun now, as we're armed with so much more information than we had before.

Many thanks again to all for your responses and information. Now, like Richard said, we'll have to make a decision and start with our "new to us" MH.

Marty
soren
Explorer
Sep 07, 2014
Last year we decided to cut our losses and sell an eleven year old DP that not only was terribly outdated, on the inside and out, but needed about $10K in work on many systems. (brakes, basement air, dash air, etc.....) All this work was required, but did absolutely nothing to the value of the coach. We replaced it with a seven year old 33' Gas Winny Vista, that not only was affordable, but in pristine condition. That said, having owned both, I find a lot of these comments questionable.

glamisorbust wrote:
I am not basing my comparison from a P30 to a DP just on the one 1994 I had. We also had a 1982 34' P30 southwind that handled equally bad. All the suspension parts underneath are not made to handle the weight of anything besides an empty motorhome. Add water and all your stuff, guess what, you're overloaded. We broke a leaf spring and could never get the alignment right on the '82 due to inferior parts that were not heavy duty enough.
Now, the DP has several things that are different from the gas counterpart. Here are some of them.
1. The gas engine is screaming between the driver and passenger, the diesel is out back and you cannot hear it.

Sorry, but "screaming" is for drama queens. The motor will bump to about 4K on occasion, but even them, the dog house is well insulated, and normal conversation and radio listening are still happening without issues.

2. The diesel pusher almost always has an exhaust brake which aids in slowing the rig down considerably. And the DP will have air brakes.

The five speed Ford trans. has grade braking that is, for all intent, a "Jake brake" and controls the speed impressively. My 2014 Chevy truck does the same thing.

3. The maintenance costs will be more on a diesel. More oil capacity, more expensive filters that have to be changed more often. It is easy to do all these things yourself if you're even remotely mechanically inclined.
4. Tires on a DP cost about twice what they do on a gas RV. I bought tires for my '94 P30 before I sold it. They were the cheapest new thing I could find, and they were $1600 for all six mounted out the door. Definitely more costly on the DP.
5. The handling on a DP versus a gas is a complete 180. Death grip on the gas, one or two fingers on the wheel with the DP.

More drama. My current gasser handles perfectly adequately, and is as relaxing as the DP was. It's a trade off, the ride is not as smooth without the airbags, the handling is better, but the DP was extremely short and had a bad rep. for being twitchy.

6. Carrying capacity on the DP is a lot more. Pretty much load up whatever you want to bring, you'll be able to handle it without going overweight.

I have two tons of carrying capacity on the gasser, I'm pretty sure that's enough.

7. The storage bays on the DP are huge, some have pass-through storage on a few bays. This makes it really nice for putting in things that are long, like tables, flag poles, skiis, etc.

I have a pass through and a rear compartment that's bigger than anything I have seen on most DPs, like 5'x8'x4'

8. The diesel generator has enough power to run everything on board at one time if it's the 7500 onan quiet diesel. I can run both ac unit's, the microwave and all the lights. On a gasser, be prepared to shut down an a/c unit to run the microwave, depending on the size of the microwave and a/c.

I run both A/Cs without incident, lights, TV etc.....at once, if I need to run the micro, it takes a moment to drop the rear A/C, hardly a deal breaker.

9. A DP is not outside your price range. Go drive both and then report back to us. You won't believe the difference.

Stop by a big rig shop and price out a few maintenance tasks and repairs for a DP, and like the man says, "you won't believe the difference". Pretty typical to pay 2-5X as much to do the same work on a DP.

10. I'm not saying that the gasser is a bad choice. But I am saying that the resale value will be higher on a DP. Not to mention the ear to ear grin you'll wear as you're driving it down the road.

Resale is a tricky issue. You might do better with a DP, or you might get stuck with a tough to sell rig. You pay less for a gasser, and have a wider audience when it's time to sell. The other big issue is what happens with a major failure on an older DP. A 20 year old gasser might need a new trans, or a junkyard motor for $3-5K. On a DP this could be a $15-20K problem.
CA_Traveler
Explorer III
Sep 07, 2014
Also get a 20A to 30A adapter and a heavy 20A extension cord.
CA_Traveler
Explorer III
Sep 07, 2014
Is a costly smart adapter necessary to hook up to the 30 amp service from a 50 amp unit or is it just a plug adapter?
Just a simple adapter about $20.

The adapter connects the 30A hot line to both of the 50A hot lines giving you 120V throughout the rig with a limit of 30A total from the pedestal CB vs 100A available with the 50A plug. Very very few rigs use the 240V aspect of 50A so the only downside is the 30A limit.
RLS7201
Explorer II
Sep 07, 2014
MartyW wrote:
Thanks Richard and great to know.

So then, would the EFI 460 F53 (1988-1997) gasser combo be a good find and handling rig if already upgraded with headers?

Maybe? I find that tires make a big difference on that chassis. The stiffer sidewalls on the Michelin XPS or Bridgestone R250 all steel cord tires are a good thing.
One item that I failed to mention is the very long front leaf springs. They allows some lateral chassis movement over the axle. Most of us older ("older" pertaining to the chassis GRIN)F53 owners have installed a front pan hard bar.

You might note from this thread that all the class A chassis have some short comings. If I was to do it over again, the only chassis I would avoid is the old Chevy P32 chassis. Pick the short comings you want to deal with and go RVing.

Richard
Bumpyroad
Explorer
Sep 07, 2014
many of the mid 90s P-30s had overloaded front ends, I remember seeing some writeups in MH magazine, etc. where a passenger could not sit in the passenger seat with out maxing out the front suspension.
of course moving her to the back is not always a down side.
bumpy
tropical36
Explorer
Sep 07, 2014
MartyW wrote:
Hi to all,

My wife & I have been going back and forth for the past few months about which type of used unit to purchase which is within our budget. This purchase will probably happen in the Fall, Winter or Spring, to be ready to use it next summer. We've been watching ads and we're now seeing prices getting more attractive.

Through the years we've had a pop-up, travel trailer, older small Class A, and an older 26' Class C, and we now have a 20' hybrid. This time we've considered MH to TT and back again, and now we're pretty sure we want to go ahead with a 1997-2002 Class A within the $30k'ish range. The Class A gets us the levelers, storage and generator that just aren't available with a TT. We've had used before so used doesn't scare us. We'll of course make sure to get a unit that has lived in the south or southwest, no rust, hasn't set up for years without use, decent service records, no major damage, etc...

I have some basic questions on these years of Class A's as they are newer and larger than anything we've had before. We're most probably looking at 33'-36' length, and we're definitely looking for only a Chevy chassis since those years saw the first Ford V-10s come in with the plug issues. We know those plug issues were resolved long ago, but in the year models we're looking at, its got to be Chevy, preferably the 8.1L Workhorse, or (if we can't find the right 8.1L), a 7.4L 454.

Here are the first questions:
.) What is the chassis difference between a '98 7.4L Chevy and a 2001 8.1L Workhorse? Was the Workhorse heavier and/or wider? Did it drive/ride better? How was it different?

.) Was the Allison transmission only available with the Workhorse 8.1L, or was it also available on the late 1990's 7.4L models?

.) Since we're looking at the longer units, we're looking at 2 roof A/C's and 50 amp service. To date we've only had 30 amp models. Question - can you plug a 50 amp unit into a 30 amp service, of course as long as you don't try to use over 30 amps at one time ? Is a costly smart adapter necessary to hook up to the 30 amp service from a 50 amp unit or is it just a plug adapter?

Many thanks in advance,
Marty

There's basicily no difference between a Chevy and 2001 WH with the P30 chassis, however WH did make a W chassis with a solid beam front axle in various weight ranges and the larger W24 would be my choice.

Doubtful that you'll find an Allison coupled to any 7.4 and especially with the P chassis, which incidentally will most likely not have a parking pawl in the tranny and equipped with auto park in the larger rigs. Also won't have much for GCVW with the 4L80E transmission, in case you'll be towing.

No problem with electrical hookups with either a 30 or 50amp service and just requires an adapter from Walmart or other.
Bumpyroad
Explorer
Sep 07, 2014
another new thread reminded me that the original 1999 ford chassis drew air up from near the ground. in heavy downpours it could suck water up and choke out the air filter. they had a snorkel attachment to prevent this so if you get this chassis be sure to get a snorkel for it. happened to me on a FLA highway during a monsoon. I was lucky that after a short wait I limped into my campground and all was well. I bought that snorkel and it was still in a drawer in the MH when I traded it off.
bumpy